darkwolf45 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 So, I was driving my Cutlass last friday. Went to work, no issues. Ran a quick errand after work, nothing out of the ordinary. Headed over to the gym, perfect as always. Left the gym, turned the key, and the engine stuttered heavily for about 3 seconds and that was it. She would't turn over anymore. I had to tow it up to a mechanic I can trust, which was a colossal pain- took an hour to check out the dolly I had reserved the night before, and as luck would have it, the cable puller was justa few inches too short to hook up to the dolly and the car... With some help I finally got it loaded and started my trek out of the cities to get it looked at. Got there, and unloading it off the dolly the underside of the front bumper was scraped up pretty bad. In any event, we disengaged the starter motor and tried to manually turn the crankshaft, which would only go a quarter each direction... At this point, my best hope is that the timing chain broke. I don't have the know how to fix it myself, but more importantly I don't have the equipment to do it, so with the mechanic is stays while he takes it apart. If it's a timing chain, that's not a big deal, I can work with that, but if it's something worse, like a broken rod or something... Jebus.. Mechanic wants over $4k for a rebuilt engine, maybe $2300 for a used one. That is a bit out of my price range. I love this car to death, and have poured my blood sweat and tears into making it live again, but I don't know that I can put that kind of money into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_mezz Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 What motor is in it? I don't think the timing chain breaks very often but if it's a 3.4 it could be the timing belt, that killed off one of my cars.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf45 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 I have the 3100 in it. a $400 repair is doable if it is the timing chain, I can live with that, especially since I haven't had any issues with anything engine related in quite some time. I think the last repair I had was a new starter, and it was maybe a year before that that I had any issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 if your timing chain failed and you can't rotate the engine, expect to buy valves and possibly pistons as well, especially if the starter fought against the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf45 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 That certainly doesn't help me feel any better about the car. I guess I would rather hear the honest truth about the situation though.. Three years of work rebuilding it to go out so suddenly, damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Timing chain cover comes off pretty easy if you have a pulley tool available, shouldn`t take to long to get a confirmation. If it turns out to be the cause, I`d go find another engine from a yard. What year is your Cutlass? People are willing to pay $400 to replace a timing chain? I think I`m in the wrong business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf45 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 It's a '95. In the past, this guy's prices have been relatively competetive with another guy I've had really good luck with. I had assumed the estimate included labor and diagnosing the problem. I actually first thought of going to the other guy, but when I ran intot he problem it was past business hours, and he wouldn't be available til monday, when I had to be back into work with a full load to take care of on my desk. I also couldn't let it sit in the parking lot at the gym all weekend, so I went with this guy. Also, the other guy, while really thorough and my sister and her boyfriend stand by him and his work, gets a bit bitchy about the value of older cars. He's done good work on the cutlass, but every time I have brought it in (for relatively routine problems) he always assumes it's a catastrophic failure before he looks at it and I get a lecture about wasting my money on old cars. Mechanic said he would call me by noon with full details on where I stood. Going to a yard is a possibility, but I have no idea how to tell if the engine is even worth pulling. Then there is hauling the engine- I don't have a cherry picker, I have no idea how to install or remove an engine, and workspace for a project like that would be a problem.. If the bad news keeps comin, I may not have any choice but to pull the plug on this project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 You're far, far better off just swapping engines. These engines can be had for cheap, and in some cases, they are already pulled and ready for a swap. Engine swaps, while not exactly a walk in the park for a novice, are easy enough. If you've already poured this much into the car...why let something like this stop you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf45 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 You're far, far better off just swapping engines. These engines can be had for cheap, and in some cases, they are already pulled and ready for a swap. Engine swaps, while not exactly a walk in the park for a novice, are easy enough. If you've already poured this much into the car...why let something like this stop you? A lack of knowledge of how to make it happen, mostly. There is also a point where I have to admit I'm just throwing good money after bad. If I am paying $2300 for a new engine on a car that I could replace for $1200, we are moving into murky areas of financing. Not to mention, this has already been an expensive year, and my cash reserves have been hit hard. If this becomes a DIY job, maybe finances becomes easier, but I still have issues finding a place to do the work, and have to find a way around the learning curve. So yeah, the how and the what of making it happen are basically the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 You can get good used engines under $300 any day of the week, $200 at picknpull style yards. Like tornado said, change the engine yourself, its not hard. Mebbe buy a chilton manual. A lack of knowledge of how to make it happen, mostly. There is also a point where I have to admit I'm just throwing good money after bad. If I am paying $2300 for a new engine on a car that I could replace for $1200, we are moving into murky areas of financing. Not to mention, this has already been an expensive year, and my cash reserves have been hit hard. If this becomes a DIY job, maybe finances becomes easier, but I still have issues finding a place to do the work, and have to find a way around the learning curve. So yeah, the how and the what of making it happen are basically the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf45 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Hmm.. I think I have either an old chilton or Haynes manual. Even better though, I have the full dealer manual for my Cutlass. As it got older and I kept running into more and more people saying crap like "oh, i've never worked on anythign that old before.." it seemed like a good idea to get it. Where exactly do I look for an entire engine? Google search gets me a page of various parts, but not the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 even less, if you're swapping an identical engine, all you really need are torque specs and assembly/disassembly order. hell, i could pull/post those in a couple of minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 car-part.com does nicely for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 I run into mechanics hating on older cars all the time, problem is its still cheaper fixing something older than buy newer. Just not as easy. But they are completely happy working on a 2010 Honda something just doing routine upkeep and getting paid for it. Something a high school kid should be able to do. If you plan on keeping the car for as long as you can I recommend finding a dealership manual online some where. Used ones go for about $70. But being a 1995 you fall into those weird OBD 1.5 years and that could have a few issues for whoever ends up working on your car if they do not know a lot about it. A new engine would have to be from a OBD 1.5 genIIRC unless you want to go munkeying around with the computer and electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_e777 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 actually the only coupe in the yard up here is a `95 if you are going to be needing something. People already pulled the front body and hood off so its useless to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 if it is a 95, any W-body 94-95 3100 will be direct swaps with no complications. that leaves...... a couple hundred thousand good units in junkyards across the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf45 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Car-part.com does have plenty of them, but a lot more than $300 for one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Is there anything like picknpull or upullit in your area? $200 Car-part.com does have plenty of them, but a lot more than $300 for one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 sorting by distance, one is 33 miles away from me for $300 with 125,000 miles on it. perhaps you're just in a bad part of the country for good pricing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf45 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 (edited) I was thinking the same thing. MN could be worse than MI. Closest one to me, they want $1985. There are a number that are in the $650 range, but several hundred or more miles away. There is upullrparts at two locations here, right now they have one 4 door 95 cutlass, arrived 3 weeks ago. One 94, and several others, most of the 96 or 97. Looks like their pricing is $256 for an engine assembly, but no idea on the mileage. My biggest worry with pulling one of those is not knowing why the car was junked to begin with. I would have to pull the engine myself, with no way to know if the engine had crapped out and that was why the car was junked. Edited October 28, 2013 by darkwolf45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf45 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Scratch that, it looks like car-part.com just gave me a messed up sort. I resorted the results and suddenly some in the immediate area showed up for $300 or even less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Am I the first one to jump up and say that maybe it might be something else? Diagnosis first after all. Last time I heard of a failed timing chain, the engine just cranked and cranked, it isn't supposed to be an interference engine My first instinct is hydrolock, from a failed open fuel injector, though a internally failed headgasket could also be the cause. basic inspection is to pull all six spark plugs and see if the engine will crank over by hand. If you are trying to find out if the chain failed, a good way to check if the timing chain is broken is to see if the rockers move when you turn the crank. might have to pop the front valve cover off since you only have a small range of motion. Now let me cover what I HAVE actually seen.... a 3.4 (similar rotating assembly, after all) grenaded a piston (how the heck??? Low oil?????) and would only turn through about 3/4 of a turn on the crank before the bent rod jambed. block wasted and everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l67ss Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Sure beats $2100, huh? But like crazy said, make surw its the engine bad before shelling out $ Scratch that, it looks like car-part.com just gave me a messed up sort. I resorted the results and suddenly some in the immediate area showed up for $300 or even less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bg35765 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Or you could buy a whole car. Here is a 1995 Cutlass in your area for $650. Bring the battery out of your car and you should be able to drive it home. http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/cto/4130035091.html And another for $600. http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/cto/4133225618.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf45 Posted October 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 My Cutlass isn't my primary car anymore. I was actually getting ready to put it away for the winter in a few weeks. Buying another one might be more cost effective, but kinda defeats the point of it being a project for me. Besides, it's hard to find a cayenne red cutlass coupe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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