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Shifting out of park issues - Parking Pawl Removed!!!


xtremerevolution
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My friends Jetta had a problem similar to this. He couldn't get it out of park unless he stomped on his brake pedal a few times. Do you think it has something to do with the brake pedal? because you have to apply it to shift into reverse.

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You should not be stuck in park. I think the tranny is just stuck in 'NO GEAR' from no pressure.

 

 

ARE YOU SEEING ANY FLUID LEAKAGE? I've watched a caddy growl and grind and shudder in reverse while it pisses fluid... cause the seal on the reverse accumulator was bad....

 

 

WILL THE CAR ROLL IF PUSHED, when it won't move? NO! don't do this without someone in the car tro stop it if it takes off!!!

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You should not be stuck in park. I think the tranny is just stuck in 'NO GEAR' from no pressure.

 

 

ARE YOU SEEING ANY FLUID LEAKAGE? I've watched a caddy growl and grind and shudder in reverse while it pisses fluid... cause the seal on the reverse accumulator was bad....

 

 

WILL THE CAR ROLL IF PUSHED, when it won't move? NO! don't do this without someone in the car tro stop it if it takes off!!!

 

I went out with my fiance's brother to give it another try. Here's what we found.

 

If I put it into neutral, I can kind of move the car a little bit. I can't really tell if Park is still engaged or not, but I was able to move it half a foot or so forward. The car wasn't on any incline, and left in Neutral, the car wouldn't move anywhere and it was difficult to push it. I then dropped it into reverse, and the car moved back to the position from where I first pushed it, but then stopped as if it hit a wall or something, exactly as if the Park pawl was engaged. That's one thing I noticed earlier testing the car in a parking lot. It felt as if the Park pawl would engage if you didn't hold the shifter in a specific position, the moment you tried to move in reverse. You would be moving backward perfectly fine in reverse, but if you moved the shifter in the wrong position, it felt as though Park would immediately engage and your car would bounce back and forth a few times from the engine stressing the engine mounts as the pawl would lock up the differential.

 

Just now, I was able to get it into drive and move forward 2 feet from time to time, but it wouldn't always engage drive, and I couldn't figure out why it worked some times and why it wouldn't work other times.

 

In either case, you can tell a very noticeable difference while revving in neutral and revving in drive or park when it feels like the Park pawl is stuck. Still not sure what's going on here. I'm replacing the filter some time this week so I guess we can go from there.

 

No leaks anywhere. I've checked the dipstick tube a few times. Wouldn't there be a decrease in the dipstick level if there was a leak somewhere?

 

You said that I could be stuck in no gear, but as I just mentioned now, I can move the car forward while in neutral, then drop it into Reverse, and the car will reverse backwards until it hits some kind of barrier and it won't move any farther. I've tried it a dozen times and it worked almost the same way every time. Once I even moved the car forward, had my fiance's brother put it into Reverse, and I tapped the throttle from the engine bay and the car jolted backward a foot and suddenly stopped as if he hit the brake, but his foot was off the brake the whole time. During that time, there was absolutely no strange sound to indicate that the transmission fell out of gear or that something was grinding. You can hear it plain as day when a gear engages and when it disengages based on the light metallic actuation noise and the RPM change.

 

Also, to answer your question, the car will not roll if pushed when it won't move. It will only roll in Neutral. I haven't tried rolling it in Drive when it won't move, as my driveway is iced up and the car is facing another car about 5 feet away.

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Here's the log file. I renamed the extension to .txt so I could upload it. I imagine you need to change it back to .adl in order to read it with tunerpro

 

I did notice that torque converter slip was always at 255, and commanded gear was always at 1, no matter what I did.

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^^^There's your problem!!!!!!!!

 

:lol:

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Might be worth noting that it seems that the transmission was MUCH more likely to engage any gear and get the car moving when it was dead cold. The moment the transmission warmed up, I couldn't do absolutely anything anymore. Same exact thing yesterday.

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Just had a look at the log file. After all that running today (well into 15 minutes) and the coolant at 180 degrees, my tranny temp never went above 108. Its starting to look a lot more like the filter is clogged, since the transmission usually heats up a whole lot faster. Might also explain why the TCC has been taking so long to engage lately. Even last year driving in Chicago, it never took me 15 miles of driving for the TCC to engage because of transmission temp. Unless I'm not understanding things properly.

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I'm at a loss.....

 

i guess the filter and fluid change should be done... iirc, you can also see the end of the parking pawl when you get in the transmission....

 

What good will it do me to see the end of the parking pawl? How can I verify that its working properly once I get into the transmission?

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I've been having this discussion over on bonnevilleforum.com.

 

Here's what they've provided me with:

This is getting weirder and weirder.

A video of this would be nice!! lol

 

I'm starting to wonder if its linkage related either at the shifter or in the trans. Anyway for you to inspect the shifter linkage in the center console? Though I'm sure its safe to say its connected in a simple manner and timing or adjustment is not possible.

 

Too give you an idea of what it looks like on the trans side...

 

802 is the detent lever that connects to shaft 807. These are keyed so assembly is idiot proof. I'm wondering if these two keyed items became un-timed and is allowing you to shift, but not take it physically out of park.

If those 2 pieces become untimed, not only taking it out of park becomes an issue, but selecting the right gear becomes a problem also.

 

 

 

 

 

I've been kind of watching this thread. I'm with Mike on the shifting linkage here. Here's a picture of the inside of the trans, the linkage is near the top. I'm wondering if something is sloppy here.

 

PB230351.jpg

 

 

And my reply to all this:

 

I've already taken apart the center console. Everything looks ok there.

 

I hooked up my car with my ALDL usb cable and ran TunerPro, and the ECM registers each shifter selection properly. I ran from P to 1, one notch at a time, and the ECM knew exactly which position I was in every time.

 

I also had my fiance's brother run through the shifter positions while I was under the hood and the shifter cable was intact and was moving the notch on top of the transmission as it should. No problems on the outside of the transmission as far as I can tell.

 

Also, it seems to be something else other than the shifter linkage inside the transmission, because I can shift into neutral just fine, and free rev, and then shift into Drive or Reverse and the car responds exactly as if you had the brake floored. The car won't move, but you'll hear the engine struggling and it won't free rev. You hear a gear engage in the transmission in either Drive or Reverse, but you can't go anywhere, exactly as if the parking pawl was constantly engaged.

 

I'll have to see if I can push the car a good distance in neutral when some of the ice in my driveway melts away, as I can't push it to save my life at this point.

Edited by White93z34
Hotlinking can end bad!!!
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just a long shot and it may not totally fix the problem but are you sure the linkage is properly aligned? it's pretty simple to do and should take you no more than 5 mins.

 

- Set parking brake

- Shift into neutral with key in unlock (engine off)

- remove airbox or whatever is in the way with accessing the cable assy on top of the trans

- pry "up" white plastic tab on cable bracket, this allows cable adjuster to move freely

- Take hold of "arm" bracket that the cable end attaches to and move it manually to park, then back to neutral

- Check that shifter is in the proper "neutral" detent and not slightly off

- push white tab back down

 

 

Try that.

 

A pic would speak 1000 words to the location of everything. Easier than trying to describe it....

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just a long shot and it may not totally fix the problem but are you sure the linkage is properly aligned? it's pretty simple to do and should take you no more than 5 mins.

 

- Set parking brake

- Shift into neutral with key in unlock (engine off)

- remove airbox or whatever is in the way with accessing the cable assy on top of the trans

- pry "up" white plastic tab on cable bracket, this allows cable adjuster to move freely

- Take hold of "arm" bracket that the cable end attaches to and move it manually to park, then back to neutral

- Check that shifter is in the proper "neutral" detent and not slightly off

- push white tab back down

 

 

Try that.

 

A pic would speak 1000 words to the location of everything. Easier than trying to describe it....

MODEDIT--PIC REMOVED, HOTLINKING CAN END POORLY--

 

I'll try it just for shits and giggles, but I'm nearly 100% sure the adjustment is set up properly. With the shifter in neutral, I can free rev, but in Drive and Reverse, I cannot. Sounds pretty dead sure to me, but I'll check anyway.

 

 

 

I've been talking to the guys on the Bonneville forum, and they're suspecting that the parking pin in the linkage inside the transmission isn't disengaging as it might have fallen our or be loose inside the transmission. This is piece 800 in the diagram I copied over. My next step is to drain the transmission and take off the differential cover on the drive side so that I can see what's going on with the parking pawl. They gave me instructions on how to take it off and apparently it should be fairly simple. I can only hope.

 

Here's the part that they're saying may be giving me the problems:

PC130285.jpg

Edited by White93z34
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That adjustment can't hurt but yeah, I agree with the statement that the parking pawl isn't disengaging. It also explains the noise you were hearing (partial disengagement) and how you feel like you're "hitting a wall".

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it stuck me to ask this:

 

COULD YOU HAVE A DAMAGED DIFFERENTIAL CARRIER or SPIDER GEARS?

 

 

it does not make sense to me that the car moves some then locks.... unless only at certain positions does it binds...

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it stuck me to ask this:

 

COULD YOU HAVE A DAMAGED DIFFERENTIAL CARRIER or SPIDER GEARS?

 

 

it does not make sense to me that the car moves some then locks.... unless only at certain positions does it binds...

 

I have no clue.

 

The amount that it moves is the amount a car will move back and forth when the parking pawl is engaged anyway.

 

Whatever the problem is, I CAN move forward as far as I possibly want. Its just moving in reverse that's the problem. I'm almost 100% sure the problem is related to the parking pawl.

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  • 2 weeks later...
www.BonnevilleForum.com][/url]

Guys, sorry that I missed this thread. The park issue is a common problem and what has happened is the stop at the end of the parking rod has worn away, causing the spring loaded end to travel too far and stay engaged into the parking pawl. When you move the selector into neutral, it moves the end away from the pawl and you can drive the car. You must drop the cradle and remove the side cover to change the parking rod. You DO NOT have to remove the diff cover. Once you get the side cover off, all you need to do is remover the detent plate from the linkage shaft (15 MM nut) and take the plate and shaft out. Some people simply braze the end of the shaft to stop the actuator or you can replace the shaft with a new one. If the stop totally wears away, the car may get stuck in park in ALL gears.

 

Seems like I found my definite answer.

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  • 3 weeks later...

For those of you who are curious as to how this works, I posted a picture earlier of the rod. Here's what the rod looks like:

 

http://www.bestvalueautoparts.com/item.wws?sku=24213560&itempk=34101&mfr=ACDELCO%20US&weight=2

 

Apparently this rod has been used for a long ass time. Notice the spring and the end. That end pops off and as a result, is constantly stuck inside, keeping the car in park.

 

Searching across google yielded plenty of people who have had the same problem.

 

I suppose its only a matter of time until some of you are next.

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in my 5+ years on this forum I've never seen anyone post about that problem... first time for everything.

 

I DO, however remember a 94' Lumina at my old work that had that exact same issue, except it was stuck in all gears, now I know what was wrong with it.

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in my 5+ years on this forum I've never seen anyone post about that problem... first time for everything.

 

I DO, however remember a 94' Lumina at my old work that had that exact same issue, except it was stuck in all gears, now I know what was wrong with it.

 

It would appear mine popped off of the spring. Me spazzing the shifter up and down repeatedly I suppose disengages the pawl in 1st gear just enough to where I can drive forward, which means something is still attached to that rod and not completely broken and shattered in my differential. If I move the shifter up, that linkage plate rotates and pushes the rod back into the differential.

 

I'll take plenty of pictures in case anyone else runs into this.

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