91GranSport Posted June 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 I love the W-Body as well, as this is my second one. Not to offend anyone here, but I feel that the upscale W-Body cars with all the option are the best there are out there. The base model W-Body cars just don't cut it to me. That's just my opinion though. Yeah man, I agree. I wouldn't want to live in Detroit. I've heard lots of horror stories about that place. Crime and shit like that. Going out for 15 minutes to pick up some groceries and you come home to find your house empty. Damn, that's messed up. GM moved from a 4-bolt hub to a 3-bolt hub? That seems a little backwards to me. Especially considering that the Gen2 had more powerful engines and trannies than the Gen1, you think they'd beef up the linkage. I sure hope those 3-bolt hubs are specially engineered to be stronger than the 4-bolt. Also, I think the Gen1 platform does have a lot going for it, it's just too bad there isn't a very strong aftermarket for it and the rear suspension, although unique, doesn't allow the same modifications are the Gen2. I'm confused as to why they would mate 4T65-E to an LS1. Apparently the 4T65-E even with the HD option can only handle about 300lb-ft of torque. Unless they seriously detuned the LS1, that tranny would blow apart after continued use! Also, are you sure that the 4T80-E will fit in a Gen2? I know for a fact that the 4T80-E will not fit a Gen1 because there were a lot of debates on this forum about it, but I read somewhere that the 4T80-E won't fit in a W-Body unless the floor pan is modified. I'll see if I can find that article again... Actually, I started the website because I like W-bodies for their looks and all their toys (the upper-level W-bodies anyway). I'd actually love to be an engineer for a car company, but I'm unwilling to move to creepy Detroit! :shock: Ah, well, all those things are possible. The gen 1 is actually a very unusual and unique car as far as the front and rear suspensions go. The gen 2 went back to a more conventional suspension setup. Gen 1 also has beefier 4-bolt hubs rather than the simpler 3-bolt on the gen 2. Overall, I'm sure the gen 2 is an improvement, although not enough of an improvement that I'd really care. I prefer the uniqueness and personality of the gen 1's better. LS1 powered W-body was production-ready, and it was FWD. It was put in an entirely UN-modified W-body frame. They used the 4T65-E HD behind the LS1's. I'm not sure the reasoning behind that, because the 4T80-E fits in a gen 2 W-body just fine. It could be that tranny was too big and interfered with something on the LS1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted June 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 I think we all know about the POS 4.9L Cadillac V-8. Floating cylinder sleeves? I think that is a terrible design. Aluminum block with iron heads? That's stupid as well. You should have the entire engine aluminum or just keep it cast iron. As far as ASG's 5.0L V-8, I have yet to hear about any one of them breaking down but I must say that it would be a blast to have a powerful V-8 motor in your FWD W-Body! For $15,000US I'd repaint my car, do all the bodywork, buy new tires and new shocks, have my rims repainted, have my car tinted, add a stereo, and then buy an Alienware computer to rid myself of this piece of junk eMachine. V8 in a W-Body.... such sweetness.... I think I'll have to do it I heard GM will actually sell you an FWD LS1 for $15k. Not sure what it comes with though. You can put a Caddy 4.9L V8 in a W-body, but that's not a very good engine. They do sound real sweet though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 I love the W-Body as well, as this is my second one. Not to offend anyone here, but I feel that the upscale W-Body cars with all the option are the best there are out there. The base model W-Body cars just don't cut it to me. That's just my opinion though. I couldn't agree with you more. I sat in a '93 Regal sedan, burgundy outside and in, soft poofy leather seats, full instrumentation, GS steering wheel, floor shifter, (used to have) CD, 3.8....oh man how sweet that car is, I'd love to have a '93 2 door equipped just like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 I also wanted to add that I couldn't stand the cheap-ness no optioned car that mine once was, but I couldnt complain because it came with power windows and locks....I mean that's just necessities. I'd rather not crank windows manually unless it's a truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 I love the W-Body as well, as this is my second one. Not to offend anyone here, but I feel that the upscale W-Body cars with all the option are the best there are out there. The base model W-Body cars just don't cut it to me. That's just my opinion though. Base model anything doesn't cut it for me! Even some cars fully loaded just don't offer enough toys, like most imports. It makes me wonder why Honda Civics are so popular. A fully loaded Civic has what, power windows and locks? That's like a base-model W-body. GM moved from a 4-bolt hub to a 3-bolt hub? That seems a little backwards to me. Especially considering that the Gen2 had more powerful engines and trannies than the Gen1, you think they'd beef up the linkage. I sure hope those 3-bolt hubs are specially engineered to be stronger than the 4-bolt. Also, I think the Gen1 platform does have a lot going for it, it's just too bad there isn't a very strong aftermarket for it and the rear suspension, although unique, doesn't allow the same modifications are the Gen2. From what I've read on ClubGP, the 3-bolt hubs are crap. Lots of people have had to replace them on cars that are just a year or two old. I haven't had to touch either of the hubs on my '89 in 198,000 miles! I'm confused as to why they would mate 4T65-E to an LS1. Apparently the 4T65-E even with the HD option can only handle about 300lb-ft of torque. Unless they seriously detuned the LS1, that tranny would blow apart after continued use! Also, are you sure that the 4T80-E will fit in a Gen2? I know for a fact that the 4T80-E will not fit a Gen1 because there were a lot of debates on this forum about it, but I read somewhere that the 4T80-E won't fit in a W-Body unless the floor pan is modified. I'll see if I can find that article again... Who knows with GM. I've seen a few articles that claim the LS1 is mated to the 4T80-E in the prototype Impala SS. Other articles claim the 4T65-E. Who knows. The GP G8 had the 4T65-E because it's the only FWD tranny that was modified for AWD. Yes, that's correct that the 4T80-E won't fit a Gen 1. The floor pan would need to be modified to remount the rack & pinion. The subframe would need to be modified. Part of the firewall would need to be cut out. It would be a mess. A gen 2, however, has enough space to fit a 4T80-E. I know this because I emailed a guy that swapped a Northstar complete with 4T80-E tranny into a 97 GTP. He said it was a direct swap with no modification necessary to the frame. He just had to fab up some mounts. I think we all know about the POS 4.9L Cadillac V-8. Floating cylinder sleeves? I think that is a terrible design. Aluminum block with iron heads? That's stupid as well. You should have the entire engine aluminum or just keep it cast iron. As far as ASG's 5.0L V-8, I have yet to hear about any one of them breaking down but I must say that it would be a blast to have a powerful V-8 motor in your FWD W-Body! Hahah, yeah, it needs the iron heads to keep the cylinder sleeves clamped in, otherwise the cylinders would vibrate around and leak. The only benefit to this design, is to rebuild the engine, you don't have to worry about boring or honing the cylinders - just replace 'em with brand new ones! ASG's 5.0L is just a built-up 4.9L, you won't hear about very many of them breaking down because there just weren't that many installed into W-bodies. One of the things ASG advertises is it brings that mean V8 sound to the W-body, and that's definitely true. One day I saw an old 80's FWD Caddy Eldorado (the small one) with exhaust, and it sure sounded mean, like a late 60's muscle car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 I also wanted to add that I couldn't stand the cheap-ness no optioned car that mine once was, but I couldnt complain because it came with power windows and locks....I mean that's just necessities. I'd rather not crank windows manually unless it's a truck I couldn't even stand it in a truck! I bought a base-model truck for the price, and couldn't stand it. I ended up installing factory power windows, locks, deluxe door trim panels, compass/temp mirror, heated power mirrors, and factory keyless entry. I want to install the power/heated leather seats too, but the uplevel truck parts are ridiculous expensive on Ebay. It'd cost me $800 to get a set of leather seats off Ebay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimp19 Posted June 10, 2003 Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Base model anything doesn't cut it for me! Even some cars fully loaded just don't offer enough toys, like most imports. It makes me wonder why Honda Civics are so popular. A fully loaded Civic has what, power windows and locks? That's like a base-model W-body. My car has, crank windows, no p.locks, full bench, crappy dash, no p.trunk, it didn't even have mirrors on the sun visors when I bought it. Atleast it has air conditioning thats all I really need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted June 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Well, mine is "almost" as nice as that. Mine is a '91 GS sedan. GM universal grey interior (as with most of their cars of that era), two-tone exterior (blue and grey), full analog instrumentation, GS steering wheel and floor shifter. 3800 TPI and 4T60, no CD, no leather, no sunroof, no ABS. I couldn't agree with you more. I sat in a '93 Regal sedan, burgundy outside and in, soft poofy leather seats, full instrumentation, GS steering wheel, floor shifter, (used to have) CD, 3.8....oh man how sweet that car is, I'd love to have a '93 2 door equipped just like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted June 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Ha ha ha! Yeah, my friend bought a brand new Civic Si about 7 years ago. It came with a sunroof and CD player but no power accessories. Now, isn't that a little bit backwards? Usually you'd get the power accessories even before you get a CD player and a sunroof. Hell this thing didn't even have power frikking steering! And he paid $18,000 for it not including taxes! Christ! The only time I messed around with one of my hubs was when I was an idiot and cross-threaded one of my lug nuts. I broke the wheel stud and I had to replace it. Not too bad of a job though, a little tricky getting that 15mm socket in there. I have never heard of a Northstar powerplant being transplanted into a Gen2! I think I would literally shit myself if I was able to own a Gen2 with the 300HP V-8! Man, hearing about this makes me want to go out and buy a Gen2 Regal GS! The only problem is I still think the Gen1 W-Body has a lot of flair and a lot of style, despite it's age and it's questionable build quality. Base model anything doesn't cut it for me! Even some cars fully loaded just don't offer enough toys, like most imports. It makes me wonder why Honda Civics are so popular. A fully loaded Civic has what, power windows and locks? That's like a base-model W-body. From what I've read on ClubGP, the 3-bolt hubs are crap. Lots of people have had to replace them on cars that are just a year or two old. I haven't had to touch either of the hubs on my '89 in 198,000 miles! Who knows with GM. I've seen a few articles that claim the LS1 is mated to the 4T80-E in the prototype Impala SS. Other articles claim the 4T65-E. Who knows. The GP G8 had the 4T65-E because it's the only FWD tranny that was modified for AWD. Yes, that's correct that the 4T80-E won't fit a Gen 1. The floor pan would need to be modified to remount the rack & pinion. The subframe would need to be modified. Part of the firewall would need to be cut out. It would be a mess. A gen 2, however, has enough space to fit a 4T80-E. I know this because I emailed a guy that swapped a Northstar complete with 4T80-E tranny into a 97 GTP. He said it was a direct swap with no modification necessary to the frame. He just had to fab up some mounts. Hahah, yeah, it needs the iron heads to keep the cylinder sleeves clamped in, otherwise the cylinders would vibrate around and leak. The only benefit to this design, is to rebuild the engine, you don't have to worry about boring or honing the cylinders - just replace 'em with brand new ones! ASG's 5.0L is just a built-up 4.9L, you won't hear about very many of them breaking down because there just weren't that many installed into W-bodies. One of the things ASG advertises is it brings that mean V8 sound to the W-body, and that's definitely true. One day I saw an old 80's FWD Caddy Eldorado (the small one) with exhaust, and it sure sounded mean, like a late 60's muscle car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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