91GranSport Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 Now that we know GM is coming out with a new set of all-aluminum DOHC multi-valve engines for the W-Body, when will we see a redesign of the Monte Carlo, Impala, Regal and such? I would like to see GM drop the Century from the W-Body as well, and I think that's what they're planning to do. However, the only W-Body that had a major redesign was the '04 Grand Prix. I'm not going to go into the debate of whether or not GM did it right this time, but I would like to see more money put into Buick, and a lot of redesigning put into Chevy. Personally I think the current Monte Carlo and Impala are awful. The '95-'99 Monte Carlos were nice, even if they were a bit long. The older LT-1 Impalas based on the Caprice are awesome! I would like to see a normally aspirated Regal with a 3.6L - 3.8L DOHC 24-Valve V-6 and a 5-speed automatic tranny that pumping out 260HP or so. Chevy can do whatever the hell they want as far as powertrain goes. I think GM puts too much emphasis on Pontiac and not enough on Buick or Chevy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolt_Crank Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 if I ever get enough scratch together (if I don't do my rally idea...) I might turn my W-Body in to an FR vehicle... *starts chanting* FR! FR! FR! heh. the W-body is practically the only FF vehicle I like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme_style21 Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 All the new GM cars are turning into giant blocky chunk-mobiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patgizz Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 i read the w-body is supopsed to be dropped in '07ish when the impala, monte, GP return to RWD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 The Regal was going to be redesigned for 04 but Lutz cancelled it...says it was a piss poor redesign....Im willing to bet it looked pretty good and Lutz is a dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 The Regal was going to be redesigned for 04 but Lutz cancelled it...says it was a piss poor redesign....Im willing to bet it looked pretty good and Lutz is a dick You got that one right. Lutz is a dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmatic Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 i read the w-body is supopsed to be dropped in '07ish when the impala, monte, GP return to RWD i thought bout convertin my car to a fr but didnt think it could be done i hate ff i prefer fr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 my car has a fs interior and I'm glad cause I hate fl. The worst thing is the "fdomlff" but it's been there 6 years so fi. Sorry! Please let me in on FR and FF. index key: "fdomlff" = f*#Kin dent on my left front fender fs = " " soft fl = " " leather fi = " " it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimp19 Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 my car has a fs interior and I'm glad cause I hate fl. The worst thing is the "fdomlff" but it's been there 6 years so fi. Sorry! Please let me in on FR and FF. index key: "fdomlff" = f*#Kin dent on my left front fender fs = " " soft fl = " " leather fi = " " it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 If they ever stuck a DOHC engine in the Regal, someone would need a good swift kick in the junk. If Buick has any followers, besides older people, it's the people that like the GS, with the 3.8 SC. I'd love a GS, except for that whole "4 door" thing. How wicked would a GTP with GS front and rear clips grafted on be? They could call it the Grand National package or something. Now that the Prix went 4 door I guess I'm just going to have to look elsewhere, not that I'm in the market for a 2004 car at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted May 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 Hmmm. I don't think GM will ever build a decent mid-size RWD vehicle, minus the GTO. i read the w-body is supopsed to be dropped in '07ish when the impala, monte, GP return to RWD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted May 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 Ha ha ha! Brian, you always come up with the funniest shit! I think Lutz is an idiot. They could've received more ideas from actual W-Body owners and enthusiasts like us rather than hire some fool from Chrysler. I would like to see the original and the new Regal design though. The Regal was going to be redesigned for 04 but Lutz cancelled it...says it was a piss poor redesign....Im willing to bet it looked pretty good and Lutz is a dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 Hmmm. I don't think GM will ever build a decent mid-size RWD vehicle, minus the GTO. i read the w-body is supopsed to be dropped in '07ish when the impala, monte, GP return to RWD It wouldn't surprise me if GM uses the GTO to gauge interest in RWD. If it sells, W-body coupes will probably be switched to the RWD platform. If it doesn't sell, W-body coupes will stay W-bodies. Here's something I found on what the next Regal coupe is supposed to look like. It looks decent... it kind of resembles a 98-02 Accord coupe or Toyota Solara, but in light of GM's recent designs, that's probably a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandprix104 Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 i think its ass loks like uh, well ASS! but the front isnt to bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme_style21 Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 Reminds me of the older Sebrings. I think it looks decent. Don't think I'd buy one, but it looks a helluva lot better than what they've been pumping out in recent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBuick Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 You got that one right. Lutz is a dick. not really, he's actually the best thing that could have happened to GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 How do you figure that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBuick Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 I'll start out with this - I love GM cars. Period. No matter what I say about them I'll love them no matter what, and I'll always be loyal to the general. That said, what they offer right now is crap for enthusiasts. short of the corvette, no GM cars are cool, all that quick, or well made (particularly inside) - And no I'm not forgetting about the GTP. Their (GM cars) designs are bulbous, their graphics/body details are cheap looking, and the interiors are thrown together pieces of crap. this also applies to the corvette. There are, in my opinion, 2 GM vehicles that can be called well-made - the CTS and the new caddy roadster. Look at GM's offerings, almost everything they make is automatic only - automatics, for performance/enthusiast driving, Suck. I was looking to get rid of the buick and upgrade to something with a stick, and i had no choice but to look toward Ford or BMW or Chrysler to find something in my (used) price range that was acceptable. To get a good GM stick shift car you gotta get a vette, f-body, or and OLD w-body which is very hard to find. Compare a TGP to a GTP (new). The TGP has SOOOOOOO much more character. The GTP is a rental car with a sweet engine. Thats about all GM was getting good for - engines (and trucks - but thats a whole 'nother rant). Lutz is changing that. He won't take crap designs or crap interiors or crap workmanship. He probably said the Buick was crap because it was. If he is gonna put GM back on the map with cars, he needs to do exactly what he is doing. If the cars aren't offered with stick shift no performance minded individuals are going to look at them. Everybody buys M3s not because they are better than Corvettes - they aren't - but because for the same price you get a much nicer interior (and stupid snob-nosed prestige). To quell any notions that I like BMW - I don't - I hate BMWs but I'm not gonna ignore realities. I like Bob Lutz and his notions - I like that he isn't putting up with crap. GM has the money and capabilities to be the best car company in the world - instead they are the best accountant company in the world. Lutz is a car guy and he can change that. Rather than showing the capabilities with show cars he is making them a reality (GTO, Caddy roadster, etc.) (and I realize the GTO they've had all along but hes the only one that made them wake the F*ck up and get it here already). -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Lutz may be a car guy, but he has terrible taste in aesthetics. All the new GM designs (except the GTO) are hideous. They are cars only blind GM loyalists could love. I know for fact that their hideous appearance are driving people to Ford and Chrysler, despite the fact that they are actually much better built and engineered than the much better looking cars of 5-10 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted May 31, 2003 Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 You got that one right. Lutz is a dick. not really, he's actually the best thing that could have happened to GM. Sorry man, during his era, all redesigns are ass, coupes are non-existant, convertibles are non-existant, the F body is gone, Oldsmobile is gone, Buick will soon be gone... the interiors are still crappy. Look inside a Trailblazer or even the fullsize trucks. Cheap, boring, bland color.... Whoever was around between '87-93 should get their job back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted May 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Christ, that was the first thing that came to mind when I seen that pic! I was thinking to myself "What the hell? Shawn posted a pic of an Accord, not a Regal!" It looks decent... it kind of resembles a 98-02 Accord coupe or Toyota Solara, but in light of GM's recent designs, that's probably a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted May 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Hey man! I haven't heard from you in a while, where you been? You got that one right. Lutz is a dick. not really, he's actually the best thing that could have happened to GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted May 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Whoa pal, relax a minute, just remember that we're all on the same side here. I can't disagree with you on anything you've mentioned, as you brought up a lot of good points. The Corvette interior is crap. It does have a very nice, ergonomic design but it has more plastic than my '91 Regal GS. My friend's '03 Acura RSX has nicer interior materials than the Corvette that costs twice as much. One thing you must remember though, is that the Corvette is a sports-car bargain. It is meant to offer the same performance of an exotic car costing four times as much. Obviously in order to keep the cost down, they have to cut corners as certain areas. Those certain areas would be things such as the interior materials and so on. As far as Bob Lutz being a dick, people will have different opinions. Overall, I think he's a bit of a dick but not a complete saviour to GM. He has brought some decent ideas to the table, but he needs to work harder and he needs to work more with design team. His idea of dropping the fender flares and body cladding was great. Too bad he didn't see how bad a job those designers did when they altered the front and rear of the '03+ J-Body, or the '03+ Chevy C/K-Series trucks. I'll start out with this - I love GM cars. Period. No matter what I say about them I'll love them no matter what, and I'll always be loyal to the general. That said, what they offer right now is crap for enthusiasts. short of the corvette, no GM cars are cool, all that quick, or well made (particularly inside) - And no I'm not forgetting about the GTP. Their (GM cars) designs are bulbous, their graphics/body details are cheap looking, and the interiors are thrown together pieces of crap. this also applies to the corvette. There are, in my opinion, 2 GM vehicles that can be called well-made - the CTS and the new caddy roadster. Look at GM's offerings, almost everything they make is automatic only - automatics, for performance/enthusiast driving, Suck. I was looking to get rid of the buick and upgrade to something with a stick, and i had no choice but to look toward Ford or BMW or Chrysler to find something in my (used) price range that was acceptable. To get a good GM stick shift car you gotta get a vette, f-body, or and OLD w-body which is very hard to find. Compare a TGP to a GTP (new). The TGP has SOOOOOOO much more character. The GTP is a rental car with a sweet engine. Thats about all GM was getting good for - engines (and trucks - but thats a whole 'nother rant). Lutz is changing that. He won't take crap designs or crap interiors or crap workmanship. He probably said the Buick was crap because it was. If he is gonna put GM back on the map with cars, he needs to do exactly what he is doing. If the cars aren't offered with stick shift no performance minded individuals are going to look at them. Everybody buys M3s not because they are better than Corvettes - they aren't - but because for the same price you get a much nicer interior (and stupid snob-nosed prestige). To quell any notions that I like BMW - I don't - I hate BMWs but I'm not gonna ignore realities. I like Bob Lutz and his notions - I like that he isn't putting up with crap. GM has the money and capabilities to be the best car company in the world - instead they are the best accountant company in the world. Lutz is a car guy and he can change that. Rather than showing the capabilities with show cars he is making them a reality (GTO, Caddy roadster, etc.) (and I realize the GTO they've had all along but hes the only one that made them wake the F*ck up and get it here already). -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted May 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Very good arguement. I think we can all agree to the following: - GM's styling from '03+ is awful and probably won't get any better. - GM's powertrain engineering is excellent and will improve in the future. - GM's build quality is average but can definitely be improved. Lutz may be a car guy, but he has terrible taste in aesthetics.All the new GM designs (except the GTO) are hideous. They are cars only blind GM loyalists could love. I know for fact that their hideous appearance are driving people to Ford and Chrysler, despite the fact that they are actually much better built and engineered than the much better looking cars of 5-10 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GranSport Posted May 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2003 Damn that's a good argument. Please, I drive a Buick so don't remind me that my '91 will be an antique in several years. You pointed out a lot of important factors concerning GM but I don't think we can blame Bob Lutz for all of those. The redesigns all look like ass, I'll agree with you on that. However, the decision to kill Buick won't be Bob Lutz' decision, and the self-destruction of the F-Body and Oldsmobile wasn't his decision either. I think his main job is to oversee the styling and such. Sorry man, during his era, all redesigns are ass, coupes are non-existant, convertibles are non-existant, the F body is gone, Oldsmobile is gone, Buick will soon be gone... the interiors are still crappy. Look inside a Trailblazer or even the fullsize trucks. Cheap, boring, bland color.... Whoever was around between '87-93 should get their job back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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