Weird lump in drivetrain - Update: Problem Solved!!!

[skiiirt]

As for the PS line, if there is a leak, it is a very gradual one that is not causing any problems for now. Unless the lines are badly damaged, I'll leave it for now.

 

Go get a bottle of Lucas Power Steering Stop Leak

 

It will at the least try to slow the process, if you plan on doing the PS pump/lines at a later date then it really shouldnt matter what kinda gunk goes in there. I know when my PS lines we're cracked and I had a rediculous whine I got a bottle of shit that fixed it untill the damn hose completely cracked.

 

Just a $5 temp fix to possibly help stop a leak!

[pwmin]

i might of missed something, but change the fuel filter and add some BG44K. if you're very careful and dont use much at all, you can add some brake fluid to the power steering. it will swell the seals. warning: do not use even a teaspoon and i'm not going to guarantee it will work or not cause problems. i'd just go for the bg or lucas ps stop leak. change the plugs and clean the air filter. did you say your exhaust rattles? a lot exhaust rattles are heat shields. like i said, i might have missed something.

[spacecadetz26]

platinum plugs work fine on any 3100-3400. just as long as they are ac delco.

 

cheap plug wires don't work.

[GP1138]

platinum plugs work fine on any 3100-3400. just as long as they are ac delco.

 

cheap plug wires don't work.

 

INCORRECT! Platinum plugs will NOT work well in our ignition systems, as they are waste spark. Three of your plugs will go bad well before the other three, and just buy regular old $1.50 AC Delco plugs anyway. The End.

[Grand Moff Joseph]

Somehow, when I read that comment, I envisioned Bill Cosby yelling out "INCORRECT!"

[Crimson Fury Z]

when you buy the tranny filter, you get the pan gasket. i jack the car up in front, remove the back line of bolts, then start removing one from each side until it starts to pour out, that way, you wont end up dumping all that fluid on you. wait at least 15 minutes for the pan/fluid to cool, that stuff is hot!

[White93z34]

i'll second changing the fuel filter too, you'd be suprised how much nicer a car is to drive with a new one,

[DaveFromColorado]

I can't believe I didn't think of the fuel filter.. here I am, listing off tons of things to change, and I didn't include that (DOH!)

 

Platnum plugs do NOT work well in ANY waste-spark system - they suck, and are not worth the platnum put into them.

 

The theory behind platnum plugs is a crappy one at that - after all, platnum is one of the catalysts in the catalytic converter used to burn off extra hydrocarbons in an attempt to reduce hydrocarbon emissions from the talepipe and by using the platnum plugs in the cylinders, you will in turn not only have a spark igniting the fuel/air mixture, but you will also have catalyst to help the burn (that's the theory anyhow) in a waste spark ignition, the plugs will fire every 360 deg. of crank rotation, rather then every 720 deg. and the firing cylinder is the last in the line to fire giving the catalyst (platnum) extra time to overheat.

 

Sorry Steph, Platnum plugs are a waste of money in a waste spark ignition system.

 

--Dave.

[spacecadetz26]

I have never had drivability issues running platinum plugs on my 3100's or 3400's. The only time I ever hear anyone have issues is with those crappy bosch +2 or +4 plugs. I would not run platinums in a 3.1.

 

Eh, but what do I know right, i'm just a girl. But I do have DHP powrtuner so I know what my car is doing and it has never run better

 

Lets just keep throwing parts at the car, it will be fixed eventually right? Hell its not your money.

[GP1138]

I have never had drivability issues running platinum plugs on my 3100's or 3400's. The only time I ever hear anyone have issues is with those crappy bosch +2 or +4 plugs. I would not run platinums in a 3.1.

 

Eh, but what do I know right, i'm just a girl. But I do have DHP powrtuner so I know what my car is doing and it has never run better

 

Lets just keep throwing parts at the car, it will be fixed eventually right? Hell its not your money.

 

I didn't say you didn't know anything because you're a girl. Wrenching and skill with cars isn't gender-specific.

 

It's a known fact that platinums do not work well with waste-spark ignition systems. I would say that to anybody running platinums in any 60*V6 GM engine with a waste spark ignition systems.

 

Glad to see another girl here though.

[digitaloutsider]

Okay fine, continue to be ignorant about something that's a fact. I don't remember going "IT'S IN MY OPINION THAT PLATINUM PLUGS SUCK!" It went more like "GM's waste spark system does NOT get along with platinum plugs". "OH DHP POWRTUNER SAYS EVERYTHING'S FINE SO IT MUST BE RIGHT". Let those plugs go about 15-20k miles and see how little electrode is left. Maybe it'll prove a point..

 

Ignorance..

[GP1138]

Okay fine, continue to be ignorant about something that's a fact. I don't remember going "IT'S IN MY OPINION THAT PLATINUM PLUGS SUCK!" It went more like "GM's waste spark system does NOT get along with platinum plugs". "OH DHP POWRTUNER SAYS EVERYTHING'S FINE SO IT MUST BE RIGHT". Let those plugs go about 15-20k miles and see how little electrode is left. Maybe it'll prove a point..

 

Ignorance..

 

Yeah..

[DaveFromColorado]

See Steph - your DHP powertuner says everything is running correctly, which it is - right now ... but like Shaun (digitaloutsider) said, they will be junk just as fast, if not much faster then regular copper plugs.

 

Lemme ask ya this (not to be an ass or anything) but what is the difference in the ignition system between the 3x00 series engines and the 2.8/3.1/3.4DOHC engines? They all use the same coil packs, and they all use the same Ignition control modules - so why would the platnum plugs be better in a 3x00 engine, vs. the 2.8/3.1/3.4DOHC engine? If you're going to make a claim, please be prepared to back it up.

 

I'm not picking on you because you're a girl, I couldn't care less what you've got "downstairs" - I'm picking on you because you made what I believe to be an outlandish statement which made little to no sense.

 

--Dave.

[pwmin]

why run platinums anyway, steph? they are only designed to last longer and provide some catalyst. imo, they are worthless in a performance car you work on yourself. they actually dont burn fuel as well even though they burn hotter. if u have rapidfires (platinum, iirc), that may be a different story, but they were worthless in my camaro and that's def not waste spark.

 

people not talk enough on gmfwd for ya? that site moves so slow.

[spacecadetz26]

Where is your scientific proof that says platinum plugs aren't good for waste spark ignitions? All I see is a post that says blah blah blah blah blah blah platinum blah no good blah blah with waste spark. any scientific evidence should be online somewhere right, why isn't this front page news on channel 11 or cnn? Why would GM waste millions of dollars using platinum plugs on just about every vehicle that has come out since 1996, not to mention the other companies that use platinum. Platinum is here to counter balance maintenance neglect the spark plug gap does not erode like a conventional resistor plug will after time. Have I seen this with my own eyes? Probably more so than you guys, maybe less than the guy with two engines in his cutlass but i've seen alot.

 

But hell they even used platinums on the rear bank of some 3.1's just because they are so hard to change for some people. my AWD 6000 had platinums in the rear bank. and resistors in the front, imagine that. I really don't like 3.1's anyways, they are loud, old and less fuel efficient than SFI's and not as powerful as 3100's. I would imagine GM used resistor plugs on their 3.1's because people in the past where more in tune to working on their own vehicles, they were capable of simple tune ups and oil changes unlike many people of today,plus they cost less by $4, for a wbody guy thats probably alot of money especially since you change your plugs so often to find those little problems that are probably caused by something else.

 

All waste spark does is create more of a complete combustion cycle and burns any leftover gases, all it wants is a good path to travel through and a nice spark plug to discharge into. Its also one of the most powerful ignition systems available thats why many aftermarket companies use them. I do not believe that platinum plugs hinder the effect of drivability at all in waste spark, infact it makes them have better drivability for a longer period of time especially for someone that doesn't change their plugs every 30k miles.

 

I ran Delco platinums in my Z26 (a car I have driven for 100k miles and over 5 years) for 60k miles and they still looked the same as the ones I replaced them with. Infact i'm sure I could have left them in for another 50k miles and they would have been fine. I was chasing an injector that wasn't plugged in all the way giving a misfire only when it was humid out. Oh yeah thats ignorance.

 

Lets keep throwing additives in, they cure everything! LOL.

 

Am I just talking out of my ass? I used to be a ford tech. I'm not just some person that reads popular mechanics to hear about the newest advances in gms diagnostics systems.

 

Lets see this magical wisdom of platinum plugs vs. waste spark you guys have here on the w-body board. if i'm proved wrong by any means, i'll withdrawl my statements, i will however not withdrawl my statements by someone elses words and technical garble.

 

Do I run platinums in my race car? hell no, but I will in my daily driver. If I need more performance from my daily driver it will no longer be my daily driver, because to sacrific drivability and economy is sort of retarded in a daily driver.

[88Regal Limited]

I used to be a ford tech.

Theres why you dont know what your talking about. Anybody I've talked to hates a) platnum type plugs and Borch plugs. They both hate the 60* family. And quit bashing the 3.1/2.8, there by far the strongest engine that GM has made. And I could car less whats under your belt. End rant.

[GP1138]

End rant.

 

Not a very compelling one. The 3.1 isn't one of the strongest engines GM has made.

 

Everyone I've talked to, GM techs included, say that platinum plugs, due to the REVERSE POLARITY that three out of six plugs fire, wear out much much quicker in our waste spark ignition systems. Period. There's your scientific facts.

 

Maybe that's why you've seen that the rear plugs are platinums and the fronts aren't in some. I don't know which plugs fire reverse polarity, but if the fronts do, that'd be why there aren't platinums in the front.

 

I don't care what kind of tech you used to be. I was in an automotive classroom, where GM techs start out, in one of the top-rated automotive schools in the USA, and I was told that Platinum plugs are no good in waste-spark ignition systems. Period.

[19Cutlass94]

Platinum plugs work pretty good in the old muscle car engines though! Especially the rapidfires

[DaveFromColorado]

 

Platnum plugs do NOT work well in ANY waste-spark system - they suck, and are not worth the platnum put into them.

 

The theory behind platnum plugs is a crappy one at that - after all, platnum is one of the catalysts in the catalytic converter used to burn off extra hydrocarbons in an attempt to reduce hydrocarbon emissions from the talepipe and by using the platnum plugs in the cylinders, you will in turn not only have a spark igniting the fuel/air mixture, but you will also have catalyst to help the burn (that's the theory anyhow) in a waste spark ignition, the plugs will fire every 360 deg. of crank rotation, rather then every 720 deg. and the firing cylinder is the last in the line to fire giving the catalyst (platnum) extra time to overheat.

 

now that I've discussed the theory behind the platinum plug, let's go into what waste spark ignition systems are ... shal we? You may have been a ford tech at one point, but your ability to fix something does not give you the insight as to how to design something.

 

A Waste Spark ignition system is desigend to fire the spark plugs twice durring it's 4-cycles. Once on the ignition stroke at (or near) top dead center, and once durring the exhaust stroke at (or again near) top dead center. The Spark will exit the coil pack travel through the spark plug wire, jump from the electrode to the ground post on the exhaust cylinder, through the block, and up from the ground post to the center electrode on the combustion stroke cylinder, through the spark plug wire and back down into the coil completing the circut.

 

This means that the leftover gasses being burned (already exceding 1300 degrees Fahrenheit AFTER it reaches the end of the cast manifold) are being sparked again, through an already overheating platinum surface which melts at about 1770 degrees anyhow - with internal cylinder tempatures reaching about 1700 degrees this does bad things for the platinum - copper melts at about 200 degrees hotter then platinum does anyhow, and the copper plugs do ware off, so if I were you, I'd look at your Z26, and figure out why it's not running as well as it should be ... I'm sure anyone can understand the logic...

 

Platinum melts at a lower temp then copper -

Copper Plugs will ware off in an engine (what does this mean for platinum plugs)

Copper Plugs offer a larger surface area (sometimes up to 10 times larger) for the spark to jump making a more efficent, more powerful energy transfer which in turn means cleaner burning emissions - and more end power.

 

These engines, nor were any engines for that matter designed for platinum plugs, the only thing designed to help platinum plugs work is all in the programming behind the engine's electrical fuel and ignition timing systems ...

 

would you still like to go on?

 

Also, you never did answer why you would recomend platinum plugs for 3x00 but not for a 2.8/3.1 Please, answer that and go into detail, I feel all the newer people here need to know why you believe this.

 

--Dave.

[94CutlassSLCoupe]

Not a very compelling one. The 3.1 isn't one of the strongest engines GM has made.

 

I don't think strong is the right word...maybe durable is...the only GM engines I have ever seen rutinely make 250k+ are:

 

2.5 Duke

2.8/3.1/3100

3800 (not as common)

350 (not 305's)

 

The biggest problem with the 60 degree engine family that i can see is:

1) Poor intake gasket sealing

2) Oil Pump drive

 

Other than that they seem to be rock solid. The ease of service on my 3100 is amost unserpassed in v6 front wheel drive cars (with the exception of the intake gasket)

[Grand Moff Joseph]

Well, that was certainly a spiritied "discussion"...lol.

 

Anyway, back on topic, I dropped off the car at a local mom/pop repair shop near my apartment, who has offered to double check everything the dealership sauid they found for a nominal fee. So far, I am very impressed with these guys, both in their personalities and their mechanical skills. Per their shop policy, they will not fix anything until they call me for further instructions, and their labor rates are much cheaper than any dealership would ever offer.

 

In any case, besides changing the plugs, and filling up with high octane fuel/fuel injector cleaner, the only problem I am concerned with is the drive axles. If anything is leaking, it must be a damn small leak because my fluid levels are perfectly fine, and I have no pools under my car. And, as stated earlier, the A/C compressor can go to hell before I fix it. But, if there is a problem with the axles, I will get that fixed, as neglecting that issue can lead to major issues later.

 

I'll post an update when I get the car back. Thanks to all for the advice, esp. Dave!

[DaveFromColorado]

I try to be helpful.

 

I'm borderline excided to find out what's happenin' with your car!

 

--Dave.

[cutlassdude96]

fyi: the OEM platium plugs in my Cutlass lasted till 71,472

[Grand Moff Joseph]

UPDATE:

 

Well, I contacted the mechanic today to see where things stood. Turns out, he had identified the problem very quickly. What was it, you ask?? It was a broken vacuum line. Specifically, this is the set of three vacuum lines that plug into the engine just to the right (looking from the front of the car) of the intake manifold. The threads on the rubber ends of the lines were worn down to nothing, which defeated the seal that they were supposed to form with the engine. So, (partial) vacuum was being lost at that point.

 

As I said earlier, they also double checked everything that the dealer said they found, and guess what - NONE of the issues the dealer said they found were actually damaged/in need of repair. So, once I get everything squared away with the mechanic (probably next week, since the new vacuum assembly had to be ordered), I'm going to get my money back from the dealer.

 

All I can say is, I'm thankful that the vacuum line was the source of the problem, and not soemthing much more serious/expensive.

[pwmin]

you should still do a tuneup if it hasnt had one in a while (gm spec is every 30K, iirc)