Finally got my first TGP Project Car! I need some help? runs rough?

[RobertISaar]

I thought i could run the upgraded injectors and fuel pump on stock computer. this is what is setup curently ?

 

i don't know what the yellowtops are rated for when run at 43.5PSI... IIRC ford rates them at ~36PSI? and the cutout issue may be due to the cat overtemp protection stuff in the ECM telling it to dump more fuel. if the injectors are signififcantly larger than what the ECM is expecting, then you could quite possibly get to the point of too rich to burn. it's easy enough to adjust for injector size changes, so when you get burning equipment, i'll walk you through it.

[mfewtrail]

The yellow tops flow basically the same as our stock injectors. They're not really upgrades in the sense that they flow more, they're upgrades to our crappy design that likes to short out and fail. You'll be fine with them on a stock or TG160 chip. I've been running these for four years in a car with a TG160 chip and it runs flawlessly.

[Garrett Powered]

Update:

 

these problems were with stock air filter and tubing? I have now received the K/N air filter, I assume i bolt it on to the turbo? what do i do with the breather hose thing that goes from the stock air box to the valve cover?

 

I leave the tube on ( the question mark (?) shaped one) and you can go down to the auto parts store with it and get a pre-bent one with a 90 degree bend the same diameter and run it to the end of the k/n. just bore a hole with a paddle bit and push it through. it will draw crankcase gasses out just like the stock setup.

 

for the wiper, there is a cover that carefully pops off the base of the arm. then with the wiper all the way out, (turn the key on and off with it wiping till its out all the way) then undo the nut and pull it off the splines and position it the way you want it and put the nut and cap back on.

 

I have to do this on my 88 I just noticed. I am going to repaint the arm black when I do it.

[jongrappin]

Update, with the new K/N air filter the car drives perfect and fast, the car does not cut out.

 

I will post results after i chip the car..

 

robert please help me with a tune for a stock TGP with removed cat, walbro fuel pump, ford yellow top injectors, K/N Air filter. CHIP OPTIONS????

[Addicted to eaton]

Looks like your coming along good! and btw Welcome!

[RobertISaar]

robert please help me with a tune for a stock TGP with removed cat, walbro fuel pump, ford yellow top injectors, K/N Air filter. CHIP OPTIONS????

 

calm down.

 

got your package from moates yet?

[jongrappin]

Robert, the package will arrive tomorrow. IS there any last things I should consider?

 

I know a little programming but know nothing about car ECM tuning, what should i a adjust my IIRC to??

[RobertISaar]

Robert, the package will arrive tomorrow. IS there any last things I should consider?

 

I know a little programming but know nothing about car ECM tuning, what should i a adjust my IIRC to??

 

hold up, adjust IIRC? that stands for if i remember correctly...

 

programming and tuning are two VERY different things... programming skills help when you're hacking through an ECM's BIN file, but afterwards it's a skill rarely used. tuning is about reasonable assumptions, testable theories and recognizing improvements.

 

i would suggest you load up that latest GM BIN i sent you and record some datalogs on that, get a feel of what you're doing before going nuts...

 

walk before run.

[jongrappin]

I will take your advice on this matter and try out the BINs you give me, when it comes to data logging i am still yet confused..

 

Do i need to datalog via the ALDL cable and a laptop? ( i still need to order the parts, where from i am not sure? you mentioned you had an extra ALDL cable for sale???)

 

I still dont fully understand the memcal thing that you recomended I buy and I did the H1R1 header or whatnot?

 

Also I printed the diagram for the MAX232 chip, I still dont understand what i need this for? where can i buy this?

 

Also i need a Cross-over pipe? is there any reasonable prices around or should i just have someone fix it for me locally....

[RobertISaar]

yes, ALDL cable + laptop is how you datalog. otherwise you would be tuning blind...

 

i've found MOST of the parts necessary for an ALDL cable from taydaelectronics.com, but they have a $5 minimum order and you basically have to order enough parts to make ~8 cables to get to that limit. nice if you plan on making and selling them or do other electronics stuff. otherwise, radioshack has everything necessary. that diagram of the MAX232 circuit IS the aldl cable.

 

what do you mean by memcal thing?

[jongrappin]

 

installed pic... everything fits fine in a 1227727 and the cover screws down like it should. and the BURN2 from moates, i would assume it's american made, but honestly couldn't tell you. it's also all USB.

 

jon: if you have decent soldering skills(and want to save a few bucks), just grab a couple of things from moates: a C2 chip or two, the BURN2 and a HDR1($10 and is basically that little blue adapter thing that's on the first pic of the page, except it was made specifically for this(and it would allow you to read stock MEMCALs as well)). that covers the burning portion. moates offers a nice ALDL setup as well, but that's ~$80... again, if you have decent soldering skills, it's fairly cheap and easy to make your own. i made a USB one for $28 including shipping costs. a serial cable costs something like $12 to make...

 

What do you mean by reading the memcal?

[jongrappin]

Tuning Help needed?

 

I have downloaded the most recent tunerpro software from there site, as well as the definitions 8f.xdf and 8f_v2.xdf as well as 89-90 LG5 3100 Turbo.ads

I have the topgun bin and the AZRC

 

How do i burn the image to the chip??

 

I have tried to import the XDF files but the program crashes, I have tried on a XP and windows 7 Machine.....

 

do i need to use a other XDF? what is the XDF for anyways??

 

also on TGPforums they are saying i need 8fturbo.ecu file? do i need this? if so where?

 

what am i missing from getting this BIN to the Chip

[RobertISaar]

you can read the stock MEMCAL if you use the HDR1 and plug it into the bottom of it on the chip side, then plug in the other end of the HDR1 into the EEPROM burner.

 

which TP version, V4.14 or the V5 beta?

 

the XDF defines the areas of the BIN into useable numbers, and i may have a better one for you anyways.

 

you burn the image to the chip using either the built in burning application in tunerpro, or the standalone flash and burn program from moates. i prefer the TP method due to speed. to get to that, have the BURN2 plugged in, go to tools-> initialize attached hardware and then you'll probably hear a beep as the burner gets detected, then either press Ctrl + B or go to tools-> moates PROM I/O and it will bring up the screen necessary. select your chip from the menu on the right, have it blank the chip, then select a file to load to buffer(the file you want burnt), then hit burn buffer to chip(or whatever the exact vernacular is, i can't remember it at the moment). once that's done, hit verify chip with buffer. if it passes, your good and ready to stick chip in either a adapter or if you removed the stock EPROM and replaced it with a EEPROM, you're ready to stick it in the ECM.

 

.ECU files were a standard from quite a few years ago, i think originally used with WinBIN? regardless, it's likely less complete than the XDF i have to send you. BTW, tunerpro can import ECU files and then they convert into XDF.

 

ADS files are used with TP V4, TP V5 uses ADX. V5 will import a ADS and convert to ADX for you. you would need to setup your dashboard to whatever you want it to look like, but it works. i may have an ADX to send you for that as well... i'm fairly certain i made one for TGPs.

[jongrappin]

I figured out how to burn the chips but....

 

So i assumed that the stock C2 chip could just be pryed off, but it appears to be soldered in.....

 

I thought I had all the things necessary to chip the car? what do i need to buy next? Should I talk to someone locally to put some sort of socket in??

 

Is there any decent please I can read up and learn about these types of things so I do not have to ask so many questions?

[Turbo v-sick]

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/288763-prom-tuning-guide-book.html

[RobertISaar]

i mentioned decent soldering skills, did i not? you won't need a socket unless you fry things with static often or for some reason you want to change out the EEPROM again. the C2 chips are rated for like 100 year flash retention and i think 1000 write/erase cycles, so i highly doubt you'll exceed those specs. the C3 chips are rated to like 10,000 writes, but only have a retention period of 10 years.

 

thirdgen.org has undisputedly the largest DIY tuning community EVER. there is a LOT of information floating around and almost any question you could muster can be answered by quite a few members on the board. as far as what exactly you would need for specifically a TGP, no i don't think there is a "answer sheet" anywhere for that... it wouldn't be hard to make for future reference, but honestly, there aren't that many people asking questions about it.

[Garrett Powered]

we need one now. NOW!!!!!

[RobertISaar]

we need one now. NOW!!!!!

 

i may have already done most of the work actually...

 

or at least the tuning intro...

 

http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/44307-Onboard-Diagnostics-Tuning-OBD1

 

hardware wouldn't take NEARLY as much typing.

[Garrett Powered]

Nice. I am going to get some beer and sit down and read that.

[jongrappin]

Rob you rock!

 

After a month of the car being considered a project i put it on the road, plates and tags.

 

For the Maiden voyage I traveled 300 miles. The engine and transmission are perfect. The car Rages on the expressway, sounds good with the K&N, surprisingly i think the air filter fixed my fuel cut issues other than the first diagnosed problems: coil pack and injector(perfect lead on the problem guys, Thanks!)

 

How do i solder this chip? I would like to roast the tires apart prior to getting my new tires on...:dance::dance:

[RobertISaar]

what now? how to solder? i'm not the best resource for that, but it's pretty simple, cut the legs off of the stock EPROM, remove, stick the new chip in place, contact solder, contact heat, don't let it get too hot, and you're done after 28 joints.

[mfewtrail]

Rob you rock!

 

After a month of the car being considered a project i put it on the road, plates and tags.

 

For the Maiden voyage I traveled 300 miles. The engine and transmission are perfect. The car Rages on the expressway, sounds good with the K&N, surprisingly i think the air filter fixed my fuel cut issues other than the first diagnosed problems: coil pack and injector(perfect lead on the problem guys, Thanks!)

 

How do i solder this chip? I would like to roast the tires apart prior to getting my new tires on...:dance::dance:

 

You might not have been experiencing fuel cut if it doesn't do that now with the K&N. Adding the K&N = more airflow/boost, so it usually causes you to hit fuel cut on a stock chipped car(especially during cooler weather when the air is more dense). The stock hose from the airbox to turbo could have been collapsing under boost and air-starving the engine.

[jongrappin]

Details Details.....

 

Now that the engine and transmission is excellent. I have put over 2,000 miles with no problems whatsoever.

 

The only other engine issue is that i need to buy a crossover pipe. Does anyone have one for sale?

 

 

Now i think i have an electrical issue?? The Cruise control does not work, electronic trunk release does not work, all pasenger and driver lumbar and seat adjustments from armrest do not work, only the driver side seat controls on the side of the seat near the trunk pop work. I have visually checked all wires, fuses and components with nothing noticed.

 

Where should i start to diagnose these problems?? i have a multimeter, etc

 

Other considerations, i do not have to push the brake to shift into reverse/drive. on board compass computer works, and other electronics...

[pontiac6ksteawd]

The lumbar is a common problem on the GP's. In the center console lid, at the hind, is a junction of wires. Over years of opening, and closing, those wires break, and the seat functions stop working too.

 

As far as the trunk thing goes, I dont know. Mine has a ghost... It will work when it wants to, on his terms. I litterally will use it. Close the trunk, and remember I left something I need, hit the button, and it wont work. Fustrating it is..

[Garrett Powered]

the cruise usually will stop working if you got vac leaks. makes it hit fuel cut much easier too. chipped or not.

 

thats awesome though if it still runs excellent with leaky crossover and vacuum leaks.