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1994 Vert 5 spd swap started


thunderbirdrob
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Hey everybody, Im back. First I would like to say that putting a 5 spd in is no easy task. Even though I have a doner car with the 5spd (92 cutlass) there are plenty of modifications and I am just getting started. Seems to me I have read some posts on this site regarding the swap and from what I remember reading on some posts some of you guys are on drugs or don't have a clue what you are talking about, no malice intended. First of all nothing so far is interchangeable without some sort of modification, weather it be a grommet hole for cables , wiring, or even the casting for the steering column. I kept the original casting from the 94 which holds the brake peddle assembly and steering column so as I wouldn't have to use the 92 casting which is different in many ways even though it will bolt in. I added the bracket for the clutch peddle,and drilled a 5/8 hole for the cruise switch behind the clutch peddle.(The hole mounting centers of the steering column on the 92 are different then the 94.) I was able to swap the brake peddle , but had to cut off the switch contact on the 94 brake peddle and tack it to the small brake peddle from the 92 so the peddle would hit both switches, as the assembly of the brake peddle and brake switch and wiring connections are different then the 92. Anyway to do what I have done I have taken the whole dash assembly apart, ripped out the seats, console, and carpeting, removed brake booster, cruise control,. The grommet hole for the clutch cable has to be squared up and a small hole has to be drilled to hold the cable in place. The shifter and console is pretty simple by swapping in the clips and bolting it down, although I will have to drill a new hole for the cables. Haven't even touched the tranny yet and by the looks of things not for awhile until I get the interior squared away less the dash in case of wiring problems or mods. I will post pics if requested.

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It is no easy task. It is a good deal of work. Especially on a 94-96 car.

 

If you are implying that I am on drugs, what ones do you think I am on, just wondering :shh:

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I think I knew everything you posted... That must mean the drugs are out of my system! WOOHOO!! Wait till Mom hears!

 

On a serious note... whats your plan with the computer? I assume you are doing a swap to either OBD 1 or 2, because you would currently have OBD 1.5 if my memory serves me correctly. If you have a way around doing an OBD swap, you definitely have my attention!

 

Jamie

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Seems to me I have read some posts on this site regarding the swap and from what I remember reading on some posts some of you guys are on drugs or don't have a clue what you are talking about, no malice intended.

 

Seems like you sir are mechanically challenged, don't take it personally.

 

 

 

 

 

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Wow you guys sure get uptight . If you had read any of the forums on 5spd swaps you would agree. for the guy who took it personally relax. All I am tring to say is it is not as simple as swaping everything over. For the guy who thinks I am mechanicaly challenged, maybe a bit of info or something other then disses. dont take it personally we know you have nothing to ad. I will post pics and continue my posts for enthusiests who are interested and want details and not here says. I dont know why this post is in powertrain as it is a vert and I wanted it for vert entusiests. Talk to you later.

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Just a suggestion: people are going to get offended when someone with five posts that has not proven himself or his knowledge at all (I'm not doubting you). You can't just insult the whole forum, add "no offense", and expect no reactions. Just my $.02, and it's IMO.

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FYI, transmission is part of a powertrain, even in a vert!

 

No mention of the OBD question.... :willynilly:

 

Just a suggestion: people are going to get offended when someone with five posts that has not proven himself or his knowledge at all (I'm not doubting you). You can't just insult the whole forum, add "no offense", and expect no reactions. Just my $.02, and it's IMO.

 

x2

 

welcome to the forum... drop the attitude and and you would get more "wow, thats cool" instead of what you see...

 

Jamie

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Alright you guys win . I am not a licensed mechanic And I apologize if I offened you. I do appreciate help and comments and also like to help other people with my experience that is why I am here. Your qustion for OBD. I honestly dont know. when I get there I will make it work. I will then give details on what was done . Thanks for your support.

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Man, I have the curse of OBD1.5 as well... mines a 95, if you figure it out without swapping to OBD2 you have my full attention...

 

1.5 is for all intents and purposes un-tunable. Ben at 60* tried making a chip for it but just couldn't get it to work.

 

Is it safe to assume your working with an LQ1?

 

Jamie

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This post is in Powertrain because outside of the fact that this is taking place in a vert' It has nothing to do with anything specific to convertibles. Convertible enthusiasts read the rest of the forum too.

 

And FWIW I have a rather lengthy post burred somewhere in here from when I did my 5 speed swap. And if I must say so myself I have one of the most "correct" 5 speed swaps out there. and when I put it in my new car it will be perfect down to the 5 speed specific emissions equipment. I'm not trying to start anything with you, however as someone who has contributed a good bit to the overall knowledgebase for this swap, yes it bothers me when someone says "some of you guys are on drugs or don't have a clue what you are talking about".

 

Your swap is a good bit more interesting then mine was as you have a 94-96 cutlass. mounting the clutch pedal as you have found is a bit more difficult amongst other things.

 

you mentioned that you were modifying your firewall plate to work with the clutch master cyl. Why did you elect to go this route rather then to take the plate from your parts car in yours? unless this is one of the 94-96 idiosyncrasys I don't know of.

 

how are you going about making the computer in your car work? OBD1 swap or going all out OBD2?

 

someone who you may want to seek out is "RedGTP" he did exactly what you are doing in his GTP

 

Edit2: you will also have to run the brake booster from your parts car as well. the 94-96 one is too big.

 

We are here to help each other out.

 

Edit: I wrote this before I saw your reply, don't take what I said too harsh.

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Can he convert it down to OBD 1, I know you can put newer OBD 1.5 / 2 engines in OBD 1 cars, but not sure if you can do that vice versa.

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I'd imagine you can, it would end up being a wiring nightmare, that's for sure. since OBD1.5 is very close to OBD2 it would almost be foolhardy to go OBD1 with OBD 2 being (from what I'm told) a pretty simple swap, especially with the car apart.

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Converting back to OBD-I is possible, but likely more of a pain in the ass than just going full out OBD-II.

 

Edit: To add more talking points, does HPTuners do the 96-97 PCM's for the LQ1? There's another thing to think about.

 

Edit 2: Man you picked the wrong car to do this on :lol:

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If he has to swap the steering column and the brake booster, shouldn't he be able to swap the firewall plate?

 

94+ 5spd swaps are not very common.

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Wow lots of info thanks very much. I am using the 94 motor re one question

the fire wall bracket totally different re question 2

What I want to know is if I keep every thing stock the wiring to the brakes etc. why do I need to change the OBD.

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OBD1.5 will not let you tune out the transmission... OBD 2 you can tune your way around it and OBD 1 you can have a chip made to get rid of the shift points ant whatnot. I imagine there are other complications in the computer too, but that's what I know of

 

Jamie

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There is no aftermarket tuning software (OBD 2) or performance chips (OBD 1) available to reprogram your car to run properly with the 284 and OBD 1.5.

 

 

Yann (RedGTP) lives in Quebec and 284 swapped his 94 or 95 GTP. Your best bet is to get into contact with him.

 

I have not deal't with any 94+ cars this in depth, but Yann should be able to help you.

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I dont know if I will answer the question...

 

For my part,on my 94 GTP, I keep OBD 1.5, the only change I have made is that, I have simulated the automatic transmission is always in car.

 

When the car starts, the ECU 'scan' for the transmission and the data value are resistance values ....

 

To simulate the automatic on NEUTRAL possition, I have put a resistance relay.

se-4141.jpg

 

On the automatic connection (round connection with 6 wires), I just jump true 85 and 86 on relay.. I don't use the other pins... When you turn the key to start, the relay ''CLIC'' and the transmission take the infomation ...and don't make a SES code/light.

 

It's just my only wirring chance on my swap ....without a backup and VSS rewirring ... if I'm remember ... lol

I will see this spring when I will make the same thing from my GTP true my CSC !

 

 

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Thanks red gtp

After reading some of responses to my post I thought the same thing last night and that was to fool the computer into thinking there was an auto trans in it. cool concept . This I think is the best way to go. Not that far yet but I cant think of a reason why it would not work.

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