95LQ1VERT Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Still trying to narrow down my 95 cutlass' running problems. I have a really strong exhaust odor, slight miss fire, poor mpg @ 15 mpg highway, shuttering, and hesitation. No CEL becasue its burnt out or removed... Is there anyone who has had a bad o2 sensor in their car, and can relate their problems with mine, or enlighten me with their vast knowledge? A quick tutorial on how to remove it would be nice too. I have searched the forum and haven't found any answers, just dead ends. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 bad O2 = everything goes to hell, drivability, fuel economy, power, everything. bad ignition components will also cause similar issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss427 Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 I had the exact same symptoms when the O2 sensor went bad in my LQ1. I bet that's what's wrong. I have a stick so I was able to do it from underneath with the kent Moore sensor tool, but on a 95 you'll probably have to pop the upper intake to get to it from up above. I think it's fairly accessible with that manifold off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95LQ1VERT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Thanks for the input Saar and ss427, I was really hoping i didnt have to remove the UIM. What tool could be used if I have an auto, AZ has a oxygen sensor wrench but in the description says for Ford 4.6 and 5.4 v8s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 removing the UIM takes all of like 7 minutes and opens up a BUNCH of room. i wouldn't hesitate to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 X2...I have the Kent-Moore tool, but removing the plenum makes it a much easier job. I did mine while I was replacing teh timing belt. Still trying to narrow down my 95 cutlass' running problems. I have a really strong exhaust odor, slight miss fire, poor mpg @ 15 mpg highway, shuttering, and hesitation. No CEL becasue its burnt out or removed... Is there anyone who has had a bad o2 sensor in their car, and can relate their problems with mine, or enlighten me with their vast knowledge? A quick tutorial on how to remove it would be nice too. I have searched the forum and haven't found any answers, just dead ends. Thanks for the help. removing the UIM takes all of like 7 minutes and opens up a BUNCH of room. i wouldn't hesitate to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95LQ1VERT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Im gonna take it that the kent moore tool is basically the socket? Here is autozones loaner tool. http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-Oxygen-sensor-wrench-set/_/N-264b?itemIdentifier=272729_0_0_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 The Kent-Moore tool is a crows foot. They look like the black ones in that kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) Still trying to narrow down my 95 cutlass' running problems. I have a really strong exhaust odor, slight miss fire, poor mpg @ 15 mpg highway, shuttering, and hesitation. No CEL becasue its burnt out or removed... Fix the CEL FIRST, the computer is not happy that it isn't seeing proper resistance across that circuit. I bet the computer is in "limp home" mode due to non-functioning CEL. Is there anyone who has had a bad o2 sensor in their car, and can relate their problems with mine, or enlighten me with their vast knowledge? A quick tutorial on how to remove it would be nice too. I have searched the forum and haven't found any answers, just dead ends. Thanks for the help. Depends on HOW the O2 fails. The one on my K1500 drove me nuts for two years, because it worked just fine at low speed, but provided false "lean" indication at highway speed. Fuel economy was in the toilet, engine ran OK well beyond the speed limit, though. Sensors are cheap. If you've got more than five years and/or 50K miles, sometimes it's easier to just replace the thing than to diagnose the thing. Wish I'd have replaced mine instead of trying to diagnose the lean trouble code with no success. In the end, that's what I did--threw an O2 sensor at it out of frustration--and instantly eliminated all trouble codes. Edited March 17, 2013 by Schurkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95LQ1VERT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 how exactly to I go about fixing that? Ive tried once to remove the gauge cluster but i cant get it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95LQ1VERT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Got the dash apart and the ses was forsure burnt out, could i rremove the abs light and place it in the SES location, my abs IL is on constatnly and its annoying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 17, 2013 Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Been there on my '95 Cutlass. You'll have to loosen the brackets holding the column in place underneath the instrument cluster...you can gain enough clearance without completely removing the bolts to pull the cluster...but it IS a tight fit, even with the "extra' space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95LQ1VERT Posted March 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2013 Fix the CEL FIRST, the computer is not happy that it isn't seeing proper resistance across that circuit. I bet the computer is in "limp home" mode due to non-functioning CEL. Got a new light for the SES and its fixed, but on every other start up it illuminates when running. Still miss fires and strong gasey smell out of the exhaust each start up. Thanks for the input everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 "I" would clear all codes, start fresh, see what happens. If it still doesn't run right, connect a REAL scan tool, discover the current codes, and watch the data stream for anomalies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95LQ1VERT Posted March 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Do I unplug the battery to clear the codes? And i dont have access to a real scanner however I just bought an actron cp9110 like the one Galaxie500xl recomended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 disconnecting the battery terminals(either one or both) will clear codes(along with all fuel trim/TPS learns), as will pulling the correct ECM/PCM fuse for more than a few seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runt Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 You will be able to clear codes with that scan tool you purchased. If you can, wait until it comes in. Make a note of the current CEL(s), clear them and see if they return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxie500XL Posted March 18, 2013 Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Agreed...I've used my CP9110 to successfully clear codes on my '95, without any problems. I suspect the scantool will help you finally find out WHY that light keeps coming on...was it doing that before you did the head gasket replacement? I had similiar issues with rough running on my '95 LQ1 when I first bought it, scantool showed a QUAD A failure, which turned out to be a bad evaporative purge solenoid. The solenoid sits on the backside passenger portion of the intake plenum, mine had an open coil, which I found with an ohm meter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95LQ1VERT Posted March 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2013 Agreed...I've used my CP9110 to successfully clear codes on my '95, without any problems. I suspect the scantool will help you finally find out WHY that light keeps coming on...was it doing that before you did the head gasket replacement? I had similiar issues with rough running on my '95 LQ1 when I first bought it, scantool showed a QUAD A failure, which turned out to be a bad evaporative purge solenoid. The solenoid sits on the backside passenger portion of the intake plenum, mine had an open coil, which I found with an ohm meter. I actually just replaced the bulb for the SES light, I have never seen it illuminate until yesterday. And while driving it today I noticed the light comes on under throttle when driving, otherwise at idle its off. And sometimes its on constantly? I will run the codes to see what is all present once I get that scantool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95LQ1VERT Posted March 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Got my scan tool in the mail today and hooked it up to see what the heck was wrong. Current code(s) present was: p0321- Ignition control 24x signal error. Code(s) in history were: the same p0321 and then p1640 (QDM) A. *erased codes* Then p0321 is back both current and stored in the history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Got my scan tool in the mail today and hooked it up to see what the heck was wrong. Current code(s) present was: p0321- Ignition control 24x signal error. Code(s) in history were: the same p0321 and then p1640 (QDM) A. *erased codes* Then p0321 is back both current and stored in the history. Next Step: Grab a service manual, follow the trouble chart for P0321. First Guess: Defective sensor. Second Guess: Defective wiring between sensor and ECM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 P0321 will set when: 150 or more 3X pulses happen without a single 24X pulse when at/below 1200RPM. that's 50 revolutions, BTW. sounds like the sensor is non-functional or disconnected. P1640 will set when: fan 2, TCC, CCP or low oil level light circuit(s) aren't operating properly. could be as simple as the low oil level light being burnt out, or the CCP is shorted, or fan 2 isn't being commanded properly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95LQ1VERT Posted March 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Next Step: Grab a service manual, follow the trouble chart for P0321. First Guess: Defective sensor. Second Guess: Defective wiring between sensor and ECM. I will do that when I get home, ran these right before I had work. Thanks! P1640 will set when: fan 2, TCC, CCP or low oil level light circuit(s) aren't operating properly. could be as simple as the low oil level light being burnt out, or the CCP is shorted, or fan 2 isn't being commanded properly... I was running a data stream and it said for the oil level it was in fact low according to the scanner but I checked the dipstick and it reads full? OR could this also be realted to me unplugging the evaporative purge solenoid under the intake manifold to see if any changes happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 unplugging the CCP solenoid can cause it. sounds like an oil level sensor(switch) issue, but that won't cause the quad driver DTC, that's an input, not an output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95LQ1VERT Posted March 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 BTW what sensor are you referring to with the p0321 code? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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