PhatMpk Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 HI all my red 90 TGP is having some starting and idling issues. I have to crank it for a few seconds and feather the gas in order to get it started. Once I do that it will blow out blue/black/grayish smoke. Once it is running there is no smoke at all. When I sit at the red lights it will slowly begin to hesitate and rpms will jump from 1000- 750, then will just kill unless I hold my foot on the gas. Also there is a small leak from the X-over underneath the carb. Any ideas or is there any more information on repairing the X-over/Crossover is notorious to leak on these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ride Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 underneath the carb. They don't have carbs, TGP's are fuel injected Also, feathering the gas on a fuel injected vehicle usually floods it, I'd say your problem is more than a X-over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatMpk Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Sorry I mean it is right underneath this valve shown in this pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatMpk Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 http://nocturnalms.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=car&action=display&thread=668 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerry455 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 get a fuel pressure gauge and see if the pressure drops off when the engine is off, could be a leaking injector or a bad fuel pressure regulator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 after driving it like that for a while it gets all sooty and does not want to even idle right. same thing happened to my friend Jim's tgp. I am not sure exactly what messes with the idle, but I reset his ecm and it helped for a minute so we could drive his car home. we are just waiting for him to raise the money for a crossover and then go from there. he probably has some bad injectors too and needs a new O2 sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatMpk Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I just replaced my 02 with a bosch sensor after driving 30k on my other one that had been replaced once before, but no effect o.n my idle at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 really? then you should switch back to the ac delco one that belongs on the tgp. those bosch ones suck unless you got the wideband. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted To Boost Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Does the car use any oil? Your turbo oil return line may have collapsed internally and causing oil to be pushed out the exhaust. Does the turbo have any shaft play? I'm leaning toward injectors on this one, my car ran similarly with leaking injectors. As said, hook up a fuel pressure gauge and see what you find. Your exhaust crossover is likely bad as well. Contact Kenny (TGPilot) on tgpforums.com He can repair your x-over with some quality flex joints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatMpk Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 IIt leaks about a quart a week making mild trips like 15-20 miles at a times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatMpk Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Replaced the front three plugs and wires with bosch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatMpk Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Going to put on the diagnostics scanner tomorrow :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 First off, welcome to the board! Your starting issue is likely due to leaking fuel injectors as several people suggested. They bleed off fuel into the engine drowning the plugs and causing hard starting. If you have a fuel pressure gauge, attach it to the fuel rail schrader valve and see how quickly fuel pressure bleedes down after you turn the car off(or after you turn the key to the on position to "prime" the fuel system). Besides that, you could smell the smoke that it puffs out to see if it smells very strongly of gasoline. If the injectors are leaking, the raw fuel smoke will about make your eyes water. IIt leaks about a quart a week making mild trips like 15-20 miles at a times. That's a lot of oil to be leaking. The oil pump drive o-ring has probably become brittle and is allowing a lot of oil to escape. It's located underneath the throttle body that you posted a picture of near the beginning of the topic. It's the round shaped silver object down where the lower intake manifold meets the block. Judging by your guest name on that other board where you posted pictures, you're one of many "Matt's" here with a TGP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 bosch is the wrong stuff for a tgp. you should get ac delco plugs, wires and O2 sensor when you go to buy. I get good deals at the dealership. just tell them you work for a shop or something and want a discounted price, that usually works. I bet you got vacuum leaks. the dealership has vacuum harnesses also. If you buy enough stuff they will give a discount for sure. you want the ac delco oil filters also. they got good deals on those and fuel filters too. you just gotta ask for good deals and you will recieve. they have the brown oil pump drive seal o-ring there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I quit using ACD filters after one nearly took out the engine in my Camaro They might be ok, but never again. Puroilators or Wix from now on. Also, do you happen to have the part number for the vacuum harness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I quit using ACD filters after one nearly took out the engine in my Camaro They might be ok, but never again. Puroilators or Wix from now on. Also, do you happen to have the part number for the vacuum harness? I'm guessing you had an issue with the Ecore style filter? All the AC Delco PF47 & PF52 filters I've purchased here are the standard old metal core type... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 It was a PF454 and a ecore one. All I saw was ecore ACD filters for awhile. They seem to have gone back to the standard setup now. But still, never again. I'll stick with consistent quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 To be fair, they supposedly went back to the original design, and when I took the one off the TGP that was on there for entirely too long, the anti-drainback valve was still in good shape and the car was showing no obvious symptoms of oil starvation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 true. and they are probably just fine to use. but as the old saying goes "Fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice.... won't get fooled again" but ANYHOW now that this derail train is over, back to our regularly scheduled topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 That's not how the saying goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 true. and they are probably just fine to use. but as the old saying goes "Fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice.... won't get fooled again" but ANYHOW now that this derail train is over, back to our regularly scheduled topic Thank you W! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatMpk Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Yes there is a strong odor of gasoline whenever it puffs out smoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatMpk Posted March 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I just ran a OBD1 scanner on my car and it came back with the error code 45 Rich oxygen sensor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ride Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 When the crossovers go bad they tend to foul out O2 sensors, I would plan on fixing the crossover before replacing the o2, otherwise its just a band aid fix. Edit: I still think it might be more than just your X-over, but I would replace those first then if you're still having problems I'd guess injectors next. The old style injectors just don't last 20 years. You can use 3800 non-supercharged injectors (L36 Vin K) I've heard it may run a tad bit rich, but I haven't had mine in long enough to verify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted To Boost Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Agreed, if your exhaust crossover is original at this point, it needs to be repaired correctly now. A bad crossover will cause the symptoms you describe. If you need to replace the injectors, the C302 Yellowtop injectors from five0motorsports website are direct plug and play. The description for them says 19 lb/hr, but with our fuel pressure, they run about 22 lb/hr. I have a set in my TGP and they work great. You can also find them on ebay rather inexpensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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