dohc v6 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 OMG man, you are making this was to confusing. In my first posts, I just wanted to know if there was any interest. Since there was, I went ahead and bought the calipers and am about to buy the rotors. I am not going to charge upfront. I am making them for the people that are on the list. Basically there names are like P.O., upon installation, then I will be looking for payment, but they will be made already. The reson for this is, I cant have one set made, its too expensive. So I am taking a risk and am making all the sets I need. As far as time. I am going to get them made, and test them, then contact. No waiting more than 3 days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Just got confirmation, calipers will be here friday. I need to order the rotors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Oh, so the brackets will be powdercoated. Sweet. The price is still great seeming it will be the cheapest of the parts and it takes the guesswork out to people not willing to do the work. lol @ the people worried about caliper bracket weight. I honestly don't know where you get off laughing at someone for a perfectly valid question. I've worked hand in hand with a few guys at SSBC when I worked at a performance race shop for 3 years, I've had many talks with them about why they do some of the things they do in their testing and manufacturing, and I've gained a pretty decent base knowledge on the subject. Making brackets out of steel is fine for costs, but it also holds more heat, which cancels out some of the benefit of the larger rotor surface area, and you'll be adding more unsprung weight. This doesn't make sense to me because as an "upgrade" it seems you'd want the opposite effect. Usually people who want bigger brakes race their cars, thus wanting as much heat dissipation and reduction of unsprung weight as possible. I'd also like to caution DOHC v6 in the fact that if something were to fail he may be sued for damages. Just be careful what you do with designing a product and then selling them with no way to cover your ass when they crack/break/fail albeit no fault of your own or not. That being said, i think i'll do what i have to do to get my own kit from either a reputable company or make my own. Later Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 As far as a date to when they will be ready for purchase. Well I am getting the calipers friday, and will order the rotors soon. So lets say next friday I have everything, the week after that I will have the design done, and the week after they will be made, and then test them for a week. So about 1 month MAX before I sell them. Probably alot sooner, maybe like 2-3 weeks. All depends on how long shit takes to get to me and how busy the machine shop is and the PC are. I did just talk to my father about this, and he mentioned to get them waterjetted, this will take alot less time than machining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Well you make very valid points, but for the insurance purposes, I make intakes and sure people can say that they sucked things in there car and the engine blows up, thats not my fault. The whole point to me driving with them first, is to make sure they wont crack or brake. The steel I am using is not 1018, or some crappy other material. And yes aluminum might be a better material to use, but I will put money on it, that my brackets will last longer than the aluminum ones. We dont have race cars, just cars that we like to beat every so often, with that said, I am willing to bet that the 13" brakes will be more than enough power, with heat absorbition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z34_nut Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 4140 is not the best steel you can use. 4340 is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Jay, what does a bigger company do that is so much better than what I can do. Testing? Design? what? As far as testing, I am going to test and test and test, and probably put 300 miles on my brakes befreo I even consider selling them. AS far as a design, there is nothing special there. U can use autocad, or any other drawing software. I am not being argumentative, just want to know what you learned form SSBS, as I have learned alot from other companies that big, such as ADDCO, where there bar for the rear was improperly designed and I redesigned it and now they are selling my new design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Yes, but thats way to hard. Also the hole system will have 6 pistions not 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Well you make very valid points, but for the insurance purposes, I make intakes and sure people can say that they sucked things in there car and the engine blows up, thats not my fault. The whole point to me driving with them first, is to make sure they wont crack or brake. The steel I am using is not 1018, or some crappy other material. And yes aluminum might be a better material to use, but I will put money on it, that my brackets will last longer than the aluminum ones. We dont have race cars, just cars that we like to beat every so often, with that said, I am willing to bet that the 13" brakes will be more than enough power, with heat absorbition. I'm only warning you, not trying to be a ass here. In all honesty you could be sued for the intake screwing up a car, albeit not very likely. Brakes on the other hand you should be very careful about, just a fyi. Just think that some of the top manufacturers get sued over stupid accidents, whats to say a little guy like you won't? How can you guarantee a material that rusts and corrodes will last longer than a material that only tarnishes slightly when exposed to the elements uncoated? A honest question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Jay, what does a bigger company do that is so much better than what I can do. Testing? Design? what? As far as testing, I am going to test and test and test, and probably put 300 miles on my brakes befreo I even consider selling them. AS far as a design, there is nothing special there. U can use autocad, or any other drawing software. I am not being argumentative, just want to know what you learned form SSBS, as I have learned alot from other companies that big, such as ADDCO, where there bar for the rear was improperly designed and I redesigned it and now they are selling my new design. Actually having in house test equipment to stress the material in a fashion that would act like it was on a car for 30,000 miles, they also have designers and metallurgists test the placement of holes/angles/pressures in the brackets/calipers etc to see where they WILL fail. Every material has a failure tolerance, how will you know where yours will be? I would hope that your greed to be the first to get this project done doesn't compromise the integrity of your parts and materials, remember that this isn't some piece of bent aluminum that simply re-routes air into an engine, rather it literally decides if we live or die when we press the pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Man, I should just get everyones number and we can argue on the phone. It seems to me that people on here are being to fuckin cautious. Lets take the stock brakes for instance and go from there. The stock mounting brackets are made of cast steel. Now I am sure if I went ahead and cut one in half you would find numerour small holes in them. The material I am using is very,very strong, much better than any stock setup and much better than aluminum in some instances. Aluminum, yes is less likly to brake down becasue of corrosion, and does not absorb heat, but steel is almost twice as hard to melt. So when you think about it the aluminum is going to crack casue of heat issues first. As far as corrosion, there is no real answer to that. Corrosion on brakes does not matter. The stock brakes are flat cast iron and they are still around. Actually newer rotor have aluminum hats, that does not mean that the steel ones are obsolete. We are sebating on why steel is better than aluminum. Aluminum is malleable, is much softer and will crack much easier than steel. We are arguing on the basis of that someone will race solo 1 with these. I bet more than half are going to be used on daily drivers. And if someone wants to sue me over calipers that they installed incorrectly, that will never hold up in court. We already discussed how it wont be my fault, so it will leave the burden on the installer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 5. Well I am going to put them on my car and drive with them, so that should answer that 6. YOU, I am making these out of the best fuckin material, it wont be the design, it will be the installer. Thats why I am going to use them first for a week or so Honestly those answers scare the shit out of me, why would anyone want to buy a part that has no guarantee from the seller/designer that it won't fail and simply says, "If it fails it's because you put it on wrong." Putting them on your own car for 300 or so miles doesn't mean jack crap to anyone who is going to put them on their car for 20,000 miles. Again i'm simply pointing things out you should address. Actually it will hold up in court, and i can honestly say i've been giving you great advice so you don't get burned, if all you can do is say "FUCK IT THEN" i'd really have to caution others as to whether or not to buy from someone like you. You can never answer a question with full thought, only emotion. Good luck to you and your product. I'm out Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 No your jacking my thread making people scard of shit that makes no sense. I have tried to reson with you but you keep coming up with lame cercustances that my shit will fail. I have been very diplomatic with you and you keep bashing my shit. I can almost bet you that the people that I know, that will look at the final product will be just as smart in the area of stresses on metals as any baer or brembo engineer would be. The machine shop that I am working with, works on these kits all the time, and tells me how they make them out of aluminum for the sole purpose of price. People cant feel aluminum disapeating the heat. I will guarantee 100% satisfaction that they will work, or your money back, is that better? Also as far as testing goes, dont know if you have taken any engineering classes, or talk to any enginneers, but 90% of failure rate of a product happens at the first 2% of its lifes expectancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 actually my brother is an engineer and metallurgist, and my father has been a machinist for 38 years, so i know a few things. Dude i was trying to help you, i am bringing up valid points that others are forgetting. If you can't stand a little questioning don't sell shit, moron. :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I am about to say fuck this and build them for my self. I dont need the agrivation from a member that thinks that he knows everything about brakes, giving me advice on how to design my product. THe fact that you brought corrosion into your statments leaves me to believe that you have no idea as to what you are talking about. Hey maybe the rust will eat away the metal and somone will die 40 years from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I know it won't rust through, i am a science major and any 13 year old knows that anyway. But still you cannot answer what will happen if a set breaks and someone were to die? I don't act like i know everything, there are many things I DO NOT know, and if you're to think you know it all about brakes then you sir are mistaken. Have you even tried to answer any of my questions with a hint of education? NO Every other word is a cuss word or flaming a question i asked. Like i said i am done derailng your thread with "negative" real world questions consumer SHOULD ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z34_nut Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 You wounder why people are being cautious about the most important part of a vehicle, the brakes? Are you serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Yeha a little questioning, ya, try we, meaning you and me have been going at it for about a good page or so. If you wanted to ask a question, you should have done as GTP munky did. If you wanted to help me, you would have suggest that I get the parts stress tested before I ship them, Now is that not easier than telling me that I am going to get sued. You came into this discussion with no positive thought, just how can I scare people. Its people like you that keep the w-body market weak. Thanks for all your great comments, they added alot to this thread, especially the one on corrosion, now thats funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z34_nut Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 As a business owner myself, you should learn to swallow your pride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Honestly you think I have no education. I never said that I knew everything, now you are putting words in my mouth. I am just stating that you are arging on parts of my process that make no sense. The fact that you think aluminum is stronger than steel is the first sign that I knew I was dealing with a novice. I do belive that questions shoule be asked, I never said that they should not have been. Infact I encouraged people to ask up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Honestly you think I have no education. I never said that I knew everything, now you are putting words in my mouth. I am just stating that you are arging on parts of my process that make no sense. The fact that you think aluminum is stronger than steel is the first sign that I knew I was dealing with a novice. I do belive that questions shoule be asked, I never said that they should not have been. Infact I encouraged people to ask up. show me where i stated that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Swallow my pride, why? I will admit to being wrong, and will appoligise when I am, as I have on page 2, to the w-body owner. But until you can show me that my product is junk, I aint swallowing anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohc v6 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 You made this statement, now it says a metal that rust and corrodes, stating that steel is weaker under the conditions that it is not painted. How can you guarantee a material that rusts and corrodes will last longer than a material that only tarnishes slightly when exposed to the elements uncoated? A honest question You are right I did say stonger, and I was wrong, but still says in that statment that you think steel is worse off than aluminum here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI_MuNkY Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Maybe stress testing would be a good idea, if you have access to a facility that can do that. Just find a place to have it done, make up a spare bracket to test... Maybe a local university or machine shop. Once tested, to cover your ass legally you could send them with a typed out warning basically saying you have done everything in your power to test them to the breaking point and that any further stresses would be at no fault of yours. I don't think flaws in the steel should be your fault, but I dunno how a court would look at that. And if you draw up a diagram on installation then incorrect installations not your fault either. In this day and age you can sue for anything, if someone installs one wrong all they have to say is "but they didn't show me how to install them" and thats sometimes enough for the courts. FWIW, these brackets are going to weigh what? a combined 10lb? maybe 5lb more than aluminum? so call the difference 5lb... that equates to about .005 seconds in the quarter mile (based on 100lb = .1 sec) I'd suck that up to be able to stop sooner. Aluminum does dissipate heat better and not corrode. Powder coat them flat black, no corrosion and flat black dissipates heat best. Yeah flat black isn't pretty, but its going behind a rotor and caliper where it won't be seen. Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z34_nut Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Swallow my pride, why? I will admit to being wrong, and will appoligise when I am, as I have on page 2, to the w-body owner. But until you can show me that my product is junk, I aint swallowing anything. No, the advice that people have provided for you. You will not take any advice unless its your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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