BIG BRAKES ARE DONE

[blackbombshell95]

Good to hear.

 

I don't see why more people haven't signed up on this. Big brakes are going to look fawking hot! But not only that, these are going to help a lot when I autocross

 

 

[Artemis]

I'd still like to know if they fit with stock 5-star rims....

[slick]

Good to hear.

 

I don't see why more people haven't signed up on this. Big brakes are going to look fawking hot! But not only that, these are going to help a lot when I autocross

 

 

 

I think that there's a few reasons most haven't jumped on to get them:

 

1) Probably requires running larger wheels, which most people cannot due year round due to winters (salt, sand, etc...),

2) Money is probably the biggest problem.

 

Now, if they will fit under the stock 16" rim, I would be much more interested in a set, after proper testing of course.

[dohc v6]

Having them fit under 16" wheels. i mean comeon, The inside of the wheel is smaller than the rotor.

[slick]

Umm... I'm not bitching about the price, but I can guarantee thats whats holding back most people.

 

Theres only a few things holding me back- Fitment under the stock 16" wheel, and the lack of real test data. I want numbers, not what a person says about it.

 

Also, whats the guarantee/warranty on this?

[Artemis]

Having them fit under 16" wheels. i mean comeon, The inside of the wheel is smaller than the rotor.

 

Will they fit under 17's then?

[slick]

Having them fit under 16" wheels. i mean comeon, The inside of the wheel is smaller than the rotor.

 

Will they fit under 17's then?

 

IIRC, his wheels are 17's, so yes.

[dohc v6]

13" brakes will not fit under 16" wheels. yeah they fit under 17 perfect. I am sorry that there are no test sheets to prove the stopping distance. I think that after these two kits I wont make any more. So everyone else will just have to live with there shitty 11" brakes.

[mra32]

I think this brake kit has more merit than the projectors. I think they will turn out well. I am very interested to hear Corey and Tim's comments.

 

Paul' date=' Then lay yo' money down !!

 

 

I think they are both epic failures and demand to see proof otherwise, if not the GTFO and go peddle your junk elsewhere!

[/quote']

 

lol, he doesnt have any w-bodies anymore.

 

my concern for these are safety. we are dealing with brakes and if its not done right, then theres alot at stake. If your headlights or intake fails, all that happens is that you get laughed at when your car is a hoopty. Not so with brakes. Which is why I would never sell anything i made without an LLC, but thats another topic.

 

and honestly, the constant peddling of stuff gets old. it just seems like you view this forum as a marketplace, hence why you never contribute anything if it doesnt invole you getting paid. if you wanna make custom stuff make the threads after youve done all the work and then think about taking orders if the demand is high enough. at least that way you wont get laughed at when you dont know the principles behind what you are designing

 

http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php?topic=65250.375 LOLOLOL

 

 

 

ROB FER PREZZ

[dohc v6]

 

From-

GnatGoSplat

 

Bigger brakes make you stop faster because the circumference of the swept area is larger. It's simple geometry.

 

Circumference = pi * diameter.

 

Say you have tires that are 26" diameter. Circumference is 3.14*26 = 81.64".

Let's also assume you have 10" rotors. Circumference is 3.14*10=31.40".

Let's say with 10" rotors, it takes 100ft to stop. 100ft=1200in. 1200/81.64=14.70 revolutions.

 

Ok, so you want to upgrade to 13" rotors. Circumference is 3.14*13=40.82"

40.82/31.40=1.3

So 13" rotors have a circumference 1.3x larger than 10" rotors.

14.70rev/1.3=11.31revs

 

So mathematically, with larger rotors, given the SAME clamping force and friction, the wheels only need to rotate 11.31 times with 13" rotors vs 14.70 times with 10" rotors.

 

11.31revs*81.64"=923.35"

 

1200-923.35=276.65" or 23.05ft.

 

So there you have it, given nothing changed but the diameter of the rotor from 10" to 13", you have a reduction in braking distance of 23ft.

That's a very simplistic calculation since it doesn't take into effect the increase in weight of the brake hardware or any other of the dozens of variables, but simply increasing rotor diameter while keeping everything the same DOES reduce braking distance.

 

 

 

I love the questions about safty. Lets all look at RSM brakes then mine, whos looks safer?

 

Mine

RSM's

 

Also where did RSM ever post a stopping distance??

 

[slick]

I'm not making any negative points. In fact, if he was to show some good data, I'd be all over them.

 

EDIT: Thread is cleaned up some. If there are any other posts you want out, let me know.

[dohc v6]

Works for me, thank man.

[slick]

Yep, no problem.

 

As far as my warranty question, I guess I should have elaborated more. Generally when you buy parts for your vehicle, there is some sort of warranty. Now, not saying that the welds will break, because more than likely they will not, but what if they do?

[blackbombshell95]

Yep, no problem.

 

As far as my warranty question, I guess I should have elaborated more. Generally when you buy parts for your vehicle, there is some sort of warranty. Now, not saying that the welds will break, because more than likely they will not, but what if they do?

 

Thanks a million for the thread edit.

 

From a buyer's perspective, I'm paying for a custom part meant to get beat on. Now if it breaks in the first month then i'd say, "Hey man, fix this for me." Down the road is a different story.

But, lets look at the weld; something else would probably break before that weld does. It is something else breaking that worries me. Not the bracket or welds.

[mra32]

 

From-

GnatGoSplat

 

Bigger brakes make you stop faster because the circumference of the swept area is larger.  It's simple geometry.

 

Circumference = pi * diameter.

 

Say you have tires that are 26" diameter.  Circumference is 3.14*26 = 81.64".

Let's also assume you have 10" rotors.  Circumference is 3.14*10=31.40".

Let's say with 10" rotors, it takes 100ft to stop.  100ft=1200in.  1200/81.64=14.70 revolutions.

 

Ok, so you want to upgrade to 13" rotors.  Circumference is 3.14*13=40.82"

40.82/31.40=1.3

So 13" rotors have a circumference 1.3x larger than 10" rotors.

14.70rev/1.3=11.31revs

 

So mathematically, with larger rotors, given the SAME clamping force and friction, the wheels only need to rotate 11.31 times with 13" rotors vs 14.70 times with 10" rotors.

 

11.31revs*81.64"=923.35"

 

1200-923.35=276.65" or 23.05ft.

 

So there you have it, given nothing changed but the diameter of the rotor from 10" to 13", you have a reduction in braking distance of 23ft.

That's a very simplistic calculation since it doesn't take into effect the increase in weight of the brake hardware or any other of the dozens of variables, but simply increasing rotor diameter while keeping everything the same DOES reduce braking distance.

 

 

 

I love the questions about safty.

 

 

 

CLASSIC POST!

 

I like the part where you quote logic thats severely flawed.  I thought we all came to an agreement once timg posted a link that said exactly what I was saying.  I'll admit a website has a bit more credibility than what some d00d on a forum thinks.  Look, a link!

 

http://www.tr-register.co.uk/Images/TR_Action_210_InnerPages_PRINT%2031.pdf

 

AND ANOTHER ONE!

 

http://www.racingbrake.com/v/main/rotor_is_important.asp

 

I can pull some SAE articles if you guys arent satisfied.

 

I can just quote my previous posts, if need be.

 

 

 

 

And honestly, you are basing the safety of these things on the looks of it. That is not something I would recommend. I think you should quantify your claims to everyone. You dont even need to know the theory behind everything to do such (that will certainly help you out). Just do a couple runs with the brakes you had and then do some runs with the new brakes. show the improved stopping distance. For saftey...well thats a little harder. I'd say you take it autocrossing a few times, do mixed driving and check on it. Make sure you get some extreme heat cycling in to test it. Like do a couple 120 - 0 stops and finish it off by driving through a puddle. LOLZ. If there was a similar product (those RSM things) you could also base your claims of safety on theirs a little bit (maybe showing that the theoretical safety is the same or greater). This however is a sort of a red herring since there are many variables in manufacturing that effect the outcome of manufactured parts.

 

The bottom line is that you should tell everyone how you were the guinea pig and what you did to put these through the paces and maybe even come up with some numbers quantifying improvement over stock. Temperature readings (stock and your new design) could be a selling point on these. You could make a "drivers impressions" note to tell what difference they made over stock. Improved autocross times would be a real kicker.

[Brian P]

RSM is out of business anyway. They couldn't make parts to save their lives!!

[blackbombshell95]

Mra, you make a few good points. But I think you fail to realize that Dohc isn't a huge vender. Not even a small one. He made a kit for himself and was nice enough to make a few others at the same time to share his idea. Sure your ideas make sense, but you have to think about Dohc's target.

 

 

[CSI_MuNkY]

MRA raises a lot of valid points.

 

IMHO Something he didn't point out is the method they were made. Yeah the welds look beautiful, but the strut knuckle was/is not designed to take stresses like those brackets are going to put on it. I know that weld won't fail, its probably one of the best welds on the whole car. Its going to be a shearing force of the knuckle metal. I don't care if its 1/4" or a 1/2" thick, metal is not made to be pulled on like that.

My prediction is that when they are fully put through their paces, the metal along this black line will start to fatigue and eventually shear off.

 

I do find it funny that of all the online aftermarket companies your are comparing your products to RSM. The number of bad things I have heard about that company, I wouldn't touch anything of theirs. In fact they had such a bad rap that they had to shut down and open back up under a different name.

 

You want to test them and test them right? take them to the drags strip, hot lap the car and hammer on the brakes at the end. At least there if they fail you have a pile of sand or something to run into at the end... (at least at the track I go to you do)

 

IMHO, the proper bracket to make would of been mounted the way the stock bracket was, sandwiched between the knuckle and the hub, with about 1-2" of weld on the top, bottom and both sides

 

DISCLAIMER:

Take my opinion as you will, I'm no engineer, and if an engineer wants to speak up against me, by all means.....

My opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it..... nothing.... if you don't agree with it, not my problem, no money back

 

Jamie

[mra32]

I'm an engineer! Who has been designing race car brake systems for the past 3 years!

 

Honestly Jamie, I did point it out how they were made. I just didnt think I should go into details based on the responses garnered through this forum when I speak technically.

 

You are right this puts different stresses than the knuckle was originally designed for. The original plate was putting shear/torsional loads on the knuckle whereas this is essentially normal (perpendicular to) loads Whether it will fail, I'm not sure, I havent really looked into the mechanics of it. Nor do I plan on it.

 

blkbombshell. This is also true. But like I said, I would not be selling anybody anything, even giving away things if I wasnt mostly certain that they were safe. I admit, these things "look" heavy duty and like they should hold up to daily use. But before I have either tested them or FEA'd them I certainly not call them fit for consumption. There is just a huge liability at stake when you are modifying the brakes on someone elses car. Especially when you dont really understand what makes them work in the first place.

[dohc v6]

Thats fine that you think they will break off. I have put the car through 5 test at 70-40, 80-40 and 90-40 with no problems. No brake fade at all and they look like they are wearing perfect. I did talk to an engineer that works at this machine shop, actually I talked to about 5 of them. They all told me, along with the welder that welds pretty much anything together, that the metal behind the strut is plenty strong enough to compansate for the brakes forces. I asked him if I should put gussets behind the brakes to make sure that the sheering would not happen. Becasue I though the exact same thing would happen, the brake is pulling down on the metal, constantly, but he said no it would never happen. If you are honestly that worried about them sheering, I can make the welder put gussets on the bracket, but then it adds weight, and i know that mr32 is one that hates an extra .5 ounces.

 

Its pretty much all strength in materials. The engineers that I am talking to are no dumb asses, they actually build parts for the company called blue moon.

http://www.bluemooncars.com/bmm-cars-controlfreak.htm

 

Thats all from my welder. So yeah i trust him and the guys there when they tell me something, since they have build countless car parts.

[gpchris]

I dont think there will be a problem.. He used thick ass metals and the welds were amazing. The factory welds are far shittier than that!

[pwmin]

I dont think there will be a problem.. He used thick ass metals and the welds were amazing. The factory welds are far shittier than that!

ya, i don't see how it can't be much stronger than stock. the stock setup is basically two 1/4" steel tabs with average welds. i know the larger brakes are going to have more force on it, but...

[mra32]

I propose that all comments about strength be ceased. The topic is beaten down and going nowhere. I also propose that it may resume in the event of a failure and all the naysayers about the strength can say "ha, i told you so!" (i am not including myself in this group, and note how i never predicted breakage, but suggested more stringent testing before release. I suppose I air on the side of careful, as compared to the OP)

[dohc v6]

Thats why I have not shipped any kits yet. I am going to do some tests tonight. Well see what happens.

[mra32]

Cool.

 

See if you can find a way to measure brake temps. Thats your selling point.

 

And i'd really like to see some impressions about braking through turns and other kinds of "spirited" driving that you might see on an autocross