Doober Posted December 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 If someone has already tried to install old 3,1 heads on a new later 3100 block? If new block has similar design (geometry) to old one, except few sensor holes, and camshaft location (position) are the same, i understood nothing the reason why my pushrods are not suitable to new block (in case i put old heads and other stuff on) And it's still not clear for me the way to get appropriate pushrods.As i know there are hydraulic lifters in the valve train mechanism, and valve clearance is not adjustable. Pushrods must have 100% correct lenght. I am intrested in swapping the new block cuz i have it available in perfect condition. But old heads are totaly disassembled, and it possibly takes some time to assemble heads (i'm afraid that some valve retainers are lost. But i have assembled heads from '90 Cougar from where i can remove valve retaners). Such measures are caused by parts long shipping time from US to Russia (3 weeks or even more). My target is to make this ride running before Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeStang Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 If someone has already tried to install old 3,1 heads on a new later 3100 block? If new block has similar design (geometry) to old one, except few sensor holes, and camshaft location (position) are the same, i understood nothing the reason why my pushrods are not suitable to new block (in case i put old heads and other stuff on) And it's still not clear for me the way to get appropriate pushrods.As i know there are hydraulic lifters in the valve train mechanism, and valve clearance is not adjustable. Pushrods must have 100% correct lenght. I am intrested in swapping the new block cuz i have it available in perfect condition. But old heads are totaly disassembled, and it possibly takes some time to assemble heads (i'm afraid that some valve retainers are lost. But i have assembled heads from '90 Cougar from where i can remove valve retaners). Such measures are caused by parts long shipping time from US to Russia (3 weeks or even more). My target is to make this ride running before Christmas. To my knowledge no one has done this but it is possible because people swap newer 3100/3400 top ends on the old 3.1L. So all you would have to do pretty much is reverse the process. the only reason the new block would have to have different size push rods is because the newer 3100 block has a roller cam. So in turn the roller lifters are longer than the flat tappet lifters so you would have to have shorter push rods. The way to get the correct length push rods is to buy a push rod length checker I posted a link like a page back I believe. Buy one of those it will have instructions on how to use it. On the retainer issue make sure the retainers are the same size because I do not think they are. BTW what year 3100 block do you have? and what engine did the cougar have in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 The lifters changed on the 3100. The 3100 has roller lifters, while the 3.1 has flat tappet. There is a difference in the overall length of the lifters. You could try using the 3100 pushrods and see if they're close, but more than likely will not be usable. Another option instead of having pushrods made, is to use the 3100 pushrods, and then convert the rocker arm studs and nuts to the old adjustable style This way you can adjust the valvetrain just like it could be done with old small block V8's. These are found in the generation 1 iron headed 2.8 or 3.1 (Camaros and Blazers with the 2.8/3.1, mid 80's Cavaliers, etc) You can order these online pretty quick, rockauto.com has them. Adjustable nuts: Part # MR1837 Sealed Power Adjustable Studs: Part # MR-1883 Sealed power (both parts on rockauto.com look up '90 Camaro RS 3.1) Edit: Keep in mind this will work if your 3100 is '94-95 style with the stamped steel rocker arms (not roller fulcrum which is found in '96+). If you have a '96+ you'll need the older 3100 rocker arms, guide plates, and pushrods (since with the use of the guide plates, the pushrods need to be hardened. '96+ pushrods were not hardened from the factory.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 JINX!!! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeStang Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Haha beat you to it! I like the adjustable rocker arm idea though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doober Posted December 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 If someone has already tried to install old 3,1 heads on a new later 3100 block? If new block has similar design (geometry) to old one, except few sensor holes, and camshaft location (position) are the same, i understood nothing the reason why my pushrods are not suitable to new block (in case i put old heads and other stuff on) And it's still not clear for me the way to get appropriate pushrods.As i know there are hydraulic lifters in the valve train mechanism, and valve clearance is not adjustable. Pushrods must have 100% correct lenght. I am intrested in swapping the new block cuz i have it available in perfect condition. But old heads are totaly disassembled, and it possibly takes some time to assemble heads (i'm afraid that some valve retainers are lost. But i have assembled heads from '90 Cougar from where i can remove valve retaners). Such measures are caused by parts long shipping time from US to Russia (3 weeks or even more). My target is to make this ride running before Christmas. To my knowledge no one has done this but it is possible because people swap newer 3100/3400 top ends on the old 3.1L. So all you would have to do pretty much is reverse the process. the only reason the new block would have to have different size push rods is because the newer 3100 block has a roller cam. So in turn the roller lifters are longer than the flat tappet lifters so you would have to have shorter push rods. The way to get the correct length push rods is to buy a push rod length checker I posted a link like a page back I believe. Buy one of those it will have instructions on how to use it. On the retainer issue make sure the retainers are the same size because I do not think they are. BTW what year 3100 block do you have? and what engine did the cougar have in it? Available 3100 engine is about '94-95. Cougar is equipped with stock 232ci motor. Few years ago it's block was swaped by SC's, but i did't install supercharger. I suppose to swap 5,0 HO in it next year. I am in searching of appropriate donor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeStang Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Then I believe that you can take the rockers and push rods out of the 94-95 and use them. Keep in mind this will only work if it is a 94-95 because those years still had non roller rockers but they had the roller cam. Do you understand what I am talking about? Why would you put a SC engine in it with no super charger? That would make it run like a dog because the SC engine has a lower comp. ratio to compensate for the super charger. If I were you I would just turbo the SC engine you have in it now especially since it is going to be hard to get a 5.0 in Moscow. just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns87 Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 those cougars are tough cars. My boss went through several deer and finally junked it at 190k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeStang Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 those cougars are tough cars. My boss went through several deer and finally junked it at 190k It had the 5.0/4.6 in it didn't it. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doober Posted December 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Then I believe that you can take the rockers and push rods out of the 94-95 and use them. Keep in mind this will only work if it is a 94-95 because those years still had non roller rockers but they had the roller cam. Do you understand what I am talking about? Why would you put a SC engine in it with no super charger? That would make it run like a dog because the SC engine has a lower comp. ratio to compensate for the super charger. If I were you I would just turbo the SC engine you have in it now especially since it is going to be hard to get a 5.0 in Moscow. just my 2 cents Thanks. I understand clear what you are talking about. It seems to me that this is not so difficult project to implement. If i can't find stock 3,1 within 1-2 weeks i will take 3100. Old Cougar's block was totally destroyed by torn connecting rod, and there wasn't stock 232 in a good shape for that moment. My opinion that after engine swap the car came more torquey on the bottom (low rpm range). Fuel economy got worse a bit. Anyway 232 engine is for slow driving. I think that 5,0 is more promising than 232SC in performance, durabilty and simplicity. I thought about supercharging my engine but in case of 232 i found the idea is dead (despite the fact i have got a complete kit (intakes, cooling, ECU, harness', e.t.c) for supercharger install but charger itself. I repeat that this is just my shy opinion (sorry for my being wrong). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeStang Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Then I believe that you can take the rockers and push rods out of the 94-95 and use them. Keep in mind this will only work if it is a 94-95 because those years still had non roller rockers but they had the roller cam. Do you understand what I am talking about? Why would you put a SC engine in it with no super charger? That would make it run like a dog because the SC engine has a lower comp. ratio to compensate for the super charger. If I were you I would just turbo the SC engine you have in it now especially since it is going to be hard to get a 5.0 in Moscow. just my 2 cents Thanks. I understand clear what you are talking about. It seems to me that this is not so difficult project to implement. If i can't find stock 3,1 within 1-2 weeks i will take 3100. Old Cougar's block was totally destroyed by torn connecting rod, and there wasn't stock 232 in a good shape for that moment. My opinion that after engine swap the car came more torquey on the bottom (low rpm range). Fuel economy got worse a bit. Anyway 232 engine is for slow driving. I think that 5,0 is more promising than 232SC in performance, durabilty and simplicity. I thought about supercharging my engine but in case of 232 i found the idea is dead (despite the fact i have got a complete kit (intakes, cooling, ECU, harness', e.t.c) for supercharger install but charger itself. I repeat that this is just my shy opinion (sorry for my being wrong). Don't be shy I don't know it all either but if you want the best 5.0 engine for it look for a 99+ v8 explorer/mountaineer they have a better head/intake design. I would just use the 3100 it has higher comp. pistons and a roller cam. It would not be that hard. P.S. how much is gas their a liter you drive some gas guzzlers for gas being so high over their. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns87 Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 those cougars are tough cars. My boss went through several deer and finally junked it at 190k It had the 5.0/4.6 in it didn't it. lol Unfortunately, that I do not know. My boss is a woman and knows little about cars Doober: How common are American cars in Russia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeStang Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 those cougars are tough cars. My boss went through several deer and finally junked it at 190k It had the 5.0/4.6 in it didn't it. lol Unfortunately, that I do not know. My boss is a woman and knows little about cars Doober: How common are American cars in Russia? Probably no offense Doober but 3.8's are not the greatest. No kidding either they are common or Doober is well off. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doober Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Then I believe that you can take the rockers and push rods out of the 94-95 and use them. Keep in mind this will only work if it is a 94-95 because those years still had non roller rockers but they had the roller cam. Do you understand what I am talking about? Why would you put a SC engine in it with no super charger? That would make it run like a dog because the SC engine has a lower comp. ratio to compensate for the super charger. If I were you I would just turbo the SC engine you have in it now especially since it is going to be hard to get a 5.0 in Moscow. just my 2 cents Thanks. I understand clear what you are talking about. It seems to me that this is not so difficult project to implement. If i can't find stock 3,1 within 1-2 weeks i will take 3100. Old Cougar's block was totally destroyed by torn connecting rod, and there wasn't stock 232 in a good shape for that moment. My opinion that after engine swap the car came more torquey on the bottom (low rpm range). Fuel economy got worse a bit. Anyway 232 engine is for slow driving. I think that 5,0 is more promising than 232SC in performance, durabilty and simplicity. I thought about supercharging my engine but in case of 232 i found the idea is dead (despite the fact i have got a complete kit (intakes, cooling, ECU, harness', e.t.c) for supercharger install but charger itself. I repeat that this is just my shy opinion (sorry for my being wrong). Don't be shy I don't know it all either but if you want the best 5.0 engine for it look for a 99+ v8 explorer/mountaineer they have a better head/intake design. I would just use the 3100 it has higher comp. pistons and a roller cam. It would not be that hard. P.S. how much is gas their a liter you drive some gas guzzlers for gas being so high over their. Gas prices Regular <$0,78> per liter ; <$2,34> per gallon Premium <$0,88> per liter ; <$3,35> per gallon Average cougar's fuel economy 15-17 liter per 100km Doober: How common are American cars in Russia? Not common. Amercain cars mostly looks like exotics here. For instance, it's about 15 mn12 cougars in Moscow. 89-90 cougars i suppose 2-4 units, FOX body cougars and t-birds - quite fewer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeStang Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Your gas for the most part is cheaper than ours here in the US. Stupid failing economy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doober Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Your gas for the most part is cheaper than ours here in the US. Stupid failing economy! Otherwise, as i know, gas price in the US includes tax for vehicle usage. In Russia - the man must pay annual tax for vehicle ownership (tax stake depends on car's horse powers). As a rule, powerful cars are seldom to drive, mostly on weekends in the summer time. Average annual mileage of such cars seldom exceed 6k miles. In other words, if i have a car, and i do not use it, i must pay taxes for it anyway ..... Pity note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeStang Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 We have to pay tax on gas and the vehicle too like you are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey b Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Your gas for the most part is cheaper than ours here in the US. Stupid failing economy! It's because they have a larger oil reserve and consume less. However, doob, is there a minimum wage? What does the typical worker make in an hour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeStang Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Sorry for quizzing you doober we are just interested in the differences in our countries. Ask us some questions if you like. So did you learn english is school or a private person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeStang Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Your gas for the most part is cheaper than ours here in the US. Stupid failing economy! It's because they have a larger oil reserve and consume less. However, doob, is there a minimum wage? What does the typical worker make in an hour? I heard we sell our oil out of Alaska to Russia how true is this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doober Posted December 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Sorry for quizzing you doober we are just interested in the differences in our countries. Ask us some questions if you like. So did you learn english is school or a private person? I studied English myself- it's my hobby, and i need to use it quite often at work. I like american cars, and i prefer american automotive magazines. I think i have alot of wish and opportunuties to practice and develop my English. Thank you too. I heard we sell our oil out of Alaska to Russia how true is this? I am not familiar in this questions, I suppose that it is false Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doober Posted December 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Your gas for the most part is cheaper than ours here in the US. Stupid failing economy! It's because they have a larger oil reserve and consume less. However, doob, is there a minimum wage? What does the typical worker make in an hour? Different industries and business' dermine their specific wages. "What does the typical worker make in an hour?" I couldn't get you, Do you mean daily busness, and duties? Sorry for misunderstanding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeStang Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 I think he means what does the average worker get paid hourly/daily/weekly/bi-weekly or what ever it may be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doober Posted December 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 I think he means what does the average worker get paid hourly/daily/weekly/bi-weekly or what ever it may be there. Well educated, experienced specialist, i suppose, has about 20000$ and more annual income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeStang Posted December 10, 2007 Report Share Posted December 10, 2007 I think he means what does the average worker get paid hourly/daily/weekly/bi-weekly or what ever it may be there. Well educated, experienced specialist, i suppose, has about 20000$ and more annual income. That explains it, Oh and I think you meant $20,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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