Guest TurboSedan Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 <--- can't afford new injectors i'll update tomarrow wish me luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 well i got bored so i went out and pulled all of the spark plugs out of my 3.1 Turbo (the neighboors must think i'm crazy doing this at 11:30pm with light snow lol). all of the plugs were wet with gas and they all looked the same. i have a hard time believing all 6 injectors stuck open at the same time so right now i'm thinking there has to be an ignition problem somwhere. oh yeah, i don't have to remove my front valve cover just to check to see if the cam is rotating...just remove the oil cap and look in at the pushrod/rocker arm while my brother cranks the engine i gotta wait till he gets off work before i can check that though. meanwhile the spark plugs and cylinders will dry out overnight and i'll post an update soon. i hope i don't have to buy new injectors! btw is it common for a timing chain to jump a tooth or break? it seems like i would have heard some god awful noise if that happened.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeorge Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 well at 5500 rpms you might not have heard it.. should pull the front valve cover and make sure you didnt bust a guide or a Pushrod.... atleast on the front bank.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 well i just went and looked in the oil fill cap hole while my brother cranked the engine and there is NO valvetrian movement at all does this mean the timing chain broke? would the valves have came into contact with the pistons? needless to say the Cutass will not be going to the dyno and it won't be driven any time soon. well at least this didn't happen while i was at the dyno and/or out of town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 i'm pretty sure this engine is toasted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Well......you've got a couple of choices to make. either which way....it appears as if the front timing cover has to come off. Odds are that, yes, the valves and pushrods did get bent.....its an interference motor. Pull off the valve cover and take a rocker off and pull a pushrod out....if things are screwed, stuffs bent (like a valve possibly). You can tear the motor down in the car (heads off) and hope the valves didn't screw up the pistons and cylinder walls. Or.....pull the motor back out.....that way, if you do have to do machine work to the block or replace the pistons you are able to do so. In all honestly, all things consdered........I would pull the motor back out. I know it sucks, but that way maybe this time it will be right. Also.....not to blow my own dick or anything........but you should come to me first instead of all these assholes. Note, I didn't tell you to check the battery, fuses, or crank sensor when the problem ended up being a mechanical fault. I do know what I'm doing. I did say that the injectors could be a possible issue.....and they still might, but based on the information I was given, I would of been right. But now, you don't have valves that are opening or closing. It does suck......but its not like you ran a rod through the side of the block. So given some minor parts......timing gears and chain, I'm GUESSING......gaskets and lube........not THAT bad......just a lot of fucking work. I would pull both valve covers off, pull all the rockers off, pull the pushrods out.....see if any are bent (they bend first)....it'll be obvious.....if they are, you have the possiblity of bent valves, I would then pull the heads off while the motor is out. If NO pushrods are bent, I would pull the timing cover in the car and replace whats needed. If they are bent.....its coming out again for a rebuild (again). If you have any questions....call me. I PMed you my number, as you pry already know if you are able to read this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe2fast Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 I don't think a 3.1 is an interference motor dude. infact my dads 3.1 broke the timing chain and after a new one it was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Well......you've got a couple of choices to make. either which way....it appears as if the front timing cover has to come off. Odds are that, yes, the valves and pushrods did get bent.....its an interference motor. Pull off the valve cover and take a rocker off and pull a pushrod out....if things are screwed, stuffs bent (like a valve possibly). You can tear the motor down in the car (heads off) and hope the valves didn't screw up the pistons and cylinder walls. Or.....pull the motor back out.....that way, if you do have to do machine work to the block or replace the pistons you are able to do so. In all honestly, all things consdered........I would pull the motor back out. I know it sucks, but that way maybe this time it will be right. the motor and trans will definately be pulled back out. i can have that thing in my garage within an hour. no way am i working on it in the car. i think what i'm going to do is start a full rebuild of the other TGP 'V' shortblock i have in the garage. i will probably end up using .020 Mahle pistons but otherwise stock TGP stuff. looks like a spring summer project.....i guess. Also.....not to blow my own dick or anything........but you should come to me first instead of all these assholes. sure sure [/nodandsmile] thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Typically chain driven cams are interfence in the GM world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Just make sure you check things over for something that can be fixed somewhat simply and easyily in the car. Trust me, there is nothing more disappointing that pulling a motor or trans only to actually find nothing wrong with it....or the fixable itme something capable of in vechile service. But you don't have working rocker arms...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 more than likely i'm going to pull the timing cover and front valve cover off tomarrow before i decide to pull the engine. pulling the engine will be no problem really though, but if i have to pull the heads off then fuck it....time to restart the project with the 'real' TGP shortblock. i gotta swap another A555 trans in my GTS tomarrow, weather NOT permitting. it should be pretty easy but i'll be busy this week that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 I don't think a 3.1 is an interference motor dude. infact my dads 3.1 broke the timing chain and after a new one it was fine. Yeah, I'd like to know how a pushrod motor, especially an older one, CAN'T be an interference motor.....just think about what would go one if the cam and crank werent in proper timing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 I'm not 100% on it.....but I think it is. Most of the time......chain driven cams are interference. The Quad lineup is a fine example. Whereas belt driven cams (like Isuzu's 3.2 and 3.5) aren't interference. I honestly don't know where to look right now to find an honest knowledgeable source on the matter right now......maybe its because Admiral Nelson is $20/1.75 right now.... Who else wants to diagnosis cars drunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 that's one nice thing about the 2.2 Turbo in my GTS - if the timing belt breaks the engine simply shuts off and you have to replace the belt. no interference at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl3196 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Well shit josh! Think the GTS will make it to the dyno then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 yeah Jerm and i are swapping in his extra A555 today. we've done it so many times now to various TDs that it should be really simple. half the job is already done (axles are already pulled plus a few other things). all we need to do is pull the motor, slip the trans off and slip the other one on (the clutch is still good so i won't even touch it) and then lower it back down into the car. we've done so many clutch swaps now that we have a TD trans swap down to a few hours. the tires are trashed on the GTS but Jerm is letting me use his brand new 16" crosslace wheels with 225/50 Z rated tires (they are for his Spirit R/T - same exact wheels he has on his Shelby Lancer right now only they're silver not dark gray). it really needs a new front windshield and front brakes but that can wait i'm actually pretty excited about rebuilding the TGP 'V' shortblock the right way like i should have done all along. i'm not giving up on the Cutlass that's for sure. i'll see if i have enough time to pull the timing cover and front valve cover today and post an update later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl3196 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Hey at least your bro is nice and lets you use his parts! Hope it warms up for you guys today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Hey at least your bro is nice and lets you use his parts! Hope it warms up for you guys today! oh man you don't even know the half of it! i owe Jerm LOTS of money :shock: i'd be totally screwed if it wasn't for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl3196 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Hey at least your bro is nice and lets you use his parts! Hope it warms up for you guys today! oh man you don't even know the half of it! i owe Jerm LOTS of money :shock: i'd be totally screwed if it wasn't for him. What a cool guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 if it doesn't work out (which i hope it does) i'll come pick up the car and leave a check for $1000 in your name! very tempting!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Damn, Josh, I'm sorry to hear that. I may have fucked my motor up, so you're in good company. Sounds like you put a lot of time into yours, a lot more time than I did mine. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Josh...to rule out cam chain or broken cam...with the spark plugs out press your finger over the plug hole and have your bro crank it over. If it blows your finger off the hole then most likely that is not the issue. If you get compression on #2 and then not on 4 or 6 then the cam is busted (most likely)...but if no compression on any of the holes then the cam chain, sprocket(s), or the cam itself snapped at the sprocket. Pull the valve cover if you have no compression to see if any of the rockers are deflecting. If they are not then any of what I said above might be the cultprit. 8) It would not surprise me with a N/A motor being free spun to 5500+ RPMs that you floated a valve and it kissed a piston...then bent the valve...then pushrod bent on the next stroke...then in the bend process it pinched the cam...the cam broke...and now no brrrrm brrrrm! You need to pull the valve cover to see if any of them are moving... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 You need to pull the valve cover to see if any of them are moving... 8) well i just went and looked in the oil fill cap hole while my brother cranked the engine and there is NO valvetrian movement at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 I would pull both valve covers off, pull all the rockers off, pull the pushrods out.....see if any are bent (they bend first)....it'll be obvious.....if they are, you have the possiblity of bent valves ok i just pulled the front valve cover off and none of the pushrods were bent. i looked looked right through them and all six were perfectly straight. i was able to look through to the other bank and see 2-3 other pushrods and they looked straight as well. next i'm going to pull the rear valve cover and the 6 rear bank pushrods. if they are all straight should i assume the valves are NOT bent? if that's the case i'll just pull the motor out, swap in a new timing chain set and plop it back down in there and try like hell to get it running again before next weekend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Josh...to rule out cam chain or broken cam... whoa...so i could be looking at a broken cam?!?!!?? i just thought the chain busted but a broken cam would really suck. btw i had my brother crank the engine with the valve cover off and NONE of the rockers/pushrods on the front bank moved... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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