dkorinko Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Well now its been 8 days and i still dont have my car back!!!! I called the tranny shop yesterday and they told me "yeah we will finish your car sometime this week, we are having trouble with all the "turbo tubes" that arent stock" If this guy was refering to the aftermarket intercooler setup i did he deserves to be shot because with my right hand and a screwdriver i can have all of them off in the matter of about 10 minutes! He also told me "yeah, usually we can have everything out in about 2 hours because we do these cars all the time, but we have spent 5 hours on this thing and everything is still not out" First of all!!!! I know DAMN well that this is probably the first TGP he has ever seen and 2nd of all. YOU HAVE HAD THE CAR FOR 8 DAYS AND U HAVE ONLY WORKED ON IT FOR 5 HOURS!!!??? He told me himself they were not busy so i dont see any reason why they are working on it for about 45 min each day and then stopping???? It just pisses people off when u try and make things very clear and the person just keeps saying "I know, I know" I told this guy over and over what kind of car he was dealing with and that parts are hard to come by! Just use this as a warning if anyone else ever goes for a tranny rebuild!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeZ34 Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Damn.. if they haven't done any major work yet (which it sounds like they haven't), I'd go get the car and take it else where.. If they can't figure out how to remove and then replace the piping when their done, then that's not a place I would trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RareGMFan Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 My sentiments exactly. I wouldn't trust them with the car. But then again, they work on TGPs all the time, so.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted October 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Yeah I would take the car somewhere else if it were possible. But then i have to worry about towing charges and what not. The only reason i am being nice with these people is because they only requested 1/3 of the money down and they are letting me make payments on it. I just wish they would get it done...and I pray god that when i get the car back it is working fine!!!! I just want my car back period, I will keep you guys updated as to what these idiots tell me, I am supposed to call them tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Yeah I would take the car somewhere else if it were possible. But then i have to worry about towing charges and what not. The only reason i am being nice with these people is because they only requested 1/3 of the money down and they are letting me make payments on it. I just wish they would get it done...and I pray god that when i get the car back it is working fine!!!! I just want my car back period, I will keep you guys updated as to what these idiots tell me, I am supposed to call them tomorrow. better make sure those dumbasses are using the TGP specific pieces in your 4T60 and not the regular old 4T60 parts.. I believe it was Skalor on here that bought a car that was redone w/ normal 4T60 parts and the tranny didn't last long :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted October 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 How can i check to see if they are using the right parts??? I mean I am sure that if they ask them they will tell me they are using the right parts because they seem to think they know everything they are doing and have done jobs like this before. But if there is anyway I can check and be sure they are using the right parts that would be cool. I guess I could call and ask??? Someone help, i dont want this to be something i have to do in another few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 How can i check to see if they are using the right parts??? I mean I am sure that if they ask them they will tell me they are using the right parts because they seem to think they know everything they are doing and have done jobs like this before. But if there is anyway I can check and be sure they are using the right parts that would be cool. I guess I could call and ask??? Someone help, i dont want this to be something i have to do in another few months. I guess you should ask someone here that has rebuilt their TGP tranny before and then tell the people rebuilding your tranny to show you the parts they're intending on using or something like that. As I said before..someone who has had this done properly should be able to answer your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RareGMFan Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 How can i check to see if they are using the right parts??? I mean I am sure that if they ask them they will tell me they are using the right parts because they seem to think they know everything they are doing and have done jobs like this before. But if there is anyway I can check and be sure they are using the right parts that would be cool. I guess I could call and ask??? Someone help, i dont want this to be something i have to do in another few months. I guess you should ask someone here that has rebuilt their TGP tranny before and then tell the people rebuilding your tranny to show you the parts they're intending on using or something like that. As I said before..someone who has had this done properly should be able to answer your question. I would flat out ask them for the part boxes. Or, if they can't do that, at least ask them for the part #s they're using. I don't see why they would object to this unless they KNOW there's a chance they're goofing it up. It would suck to get it back and have it wined up going out on you shortly after, but at least with the part #s written down, you have a case should they try and fight you on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted October 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Ok I am going to try and get the part numbers today. Is there anyone on here who can match part numbers with me??? I am kinda afraid to do that seeing as how i will probably discover how i am getting parts to a regular 4T60. But it needs to be done so if anyone has their parts list from when they had their tranny rebuilt it would help me out a lot if you could either post it or email it to me at danekorinko69@hotmail.com thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95GTP Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 If you dont get your car out of there your going to get screwed. They dont know what they are doing. Get it out NOW! They will fuckit up and you will have to get it done again.!! Get it out!!!!! Save it from the moron bunch! Goober with a hammer cant fix a Turbo Grand Prix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1badtgp Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 It really does sound like they are out of it. I mean, come on!! The first time I worked on my tgp, I had the IC piping off in 2 minutes!!! So much for having to "fight". If they can't figure out something that simple, I doubt they are competent enough to work on your transmission!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted October 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Ok just got off the phone with the biggest idiots in the world. The transmission is now Out of the car! But I am predicting a 1-2 day period to replace on the parts and then another 2 days to get everything back together. But get this, the owner tells me "The turbo is broken, it has a crack" So i asked on what side and he told me the exhaust side. So now I begin to think, wouldnt the car be real slow and run like shit if i had a crack in the exhaust side of the turbo!!!! Would a 14.8 sec run with a shitty transmission be possible with a CRACKED Exhaust housing???? So if I find out these idiots destroyed my turbo then i am sure they wont mind paying for a new one. I am going down there tomorrow to see how bad this crack is and to decide whether it was there before or if it was done by these jackasses. The guy proceeded to tell me that "if i would have known this was going to be this hard of a job i never would have taken it" and all that keeps running through my head is, yea ok you fuckin moron, I COMPLETELY warned and let u know EXACTLY what kind of car it is and he still told me "oh yeah, we have done 5 or 6 cars exactly like this" Obviously not!!!!! So if you guys can help me out by telling me, would the car still haul major ass with a cracked exhaust housing or did these "mechanics" get a little to ruff with my baby??? This is such a headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RareGMFan Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Hmmmm......sounds suspeciously like a cover up. If these guys are this clueless about working on your car, then they DEFINITELY aren't going to use the correct TGP tranny parts. I would get on their case right now and make them understand that you cannot use the regular pieces for this rebuild! Do it now while they haven't started the process yet. Do you have official time slips saved with the 14.8 showing on them? You may want to whip those out as evidence of what this car was capable of before they "found" this little problem. Be stern and aggresive with them. YOU'RE the customer, demand some info and respect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted October 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 I have a time slip that shows a 14.9, I cant seem to find the one that has my 14.8 on it but i am sure the 14.9 will do the trick. I am going down there tomorrow to see what the hell these guys are up to and I am definately going to bring up the issue with using the regular 4t60 parts. Is there any proof i can really give this guy that puts no doubt in his mind that the tranny parts in the TGP are Specific to it and arent used in any other cars??? I want to get this right and i wont mind gettin a little aggressive with this guy, whatever it takes to have my car perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RareGMFan Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 I don't know how much weight this will hold, but you can print out and take these links with you that state these were special trannys: http://home.att.net/~aldridgec/ ** http://www.americanmusclecars.co.uk/html/grand_prix.html http://www.pontiacserver.com/gph3_11.html http://incolor.inebraska.com/weisinator/w-body-specific/pontiac-grand-prix/ http://redfox340.tripod.com/wbodyperformance/id1.html (** check the "What is a Turbo Grand Prix?" section) There's more, but that should be enough. All of these pages mention a specific/special/beefed up, etc. tranny for the Turbo editions. Tell them to stick that up their tail pipe and smoke it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 How much worse can this get??!!! I think you should cut your losses and have the car towed to another shop. These guys should be paying you for educating them. I don't know what your financial status is, but I wouldn't let some shop burn up my savings account and fukk up my pride and joy. My neighbor recently took a Taurus to a transmission shop and since he didn't specify exactly what was to be done to his car on the work order, the mechanic replaced his transmission and handed my neighbor a bill for $2,000. My neighbor, a pastor mind you, ended up signing the title over to the mechanic rather than fight this Shylock. I feel for you, man. Good luck!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted October 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Yeah I am heading down there tomorrow to see what the hell is going on. and to see this "crack" in the exhaust side of the turbo. I will take pictures of it so if anyone wants them then i should be able to email them to you or have someone on here post them for me. Wow, I NEVER want to do this again. All this guy does is bitch about how hard the job is and i am like NOOOOOO SHIT!!!!! So i will make a post as soon as i get home tomorrow and let u all know what the status. I think i will be able to give a lot more info after i see the car and see the turbo. Talk to ya guys soon, thanks for alllllll the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 "The turbo is broken, it has a crack" So i asked on what side and he told me the exhaust side. So now I begin to think, wouldnt the car be real slow and run like shit if i had a crack in the exhaust side of the turbo!!!! Would a 14.8 sec run with a shitty transmission be possible with a CRACKED Exhaust housing???? Before you get too excited and jump into a dry pool. YES you can have cracks in the exhaust housing. They almost always form around the wastegate hole and have very little measurable effect on performance. I can understand your frustration. But like you said, they are allowing you alot with 1/3 down and payments for the rest. So they probably have had to make decisions with what is NOT a run of the mill trans job. I can do a TGP trans R&R about as fast as anyone out there, but if those crossover or DP bolts give you a fit then that could be their problems. And what is familiar to one person, might not be to another. Whatever the reason, I would go down and explain your concerns. If they don't take them into consideration and offer some satisfaction, then you have a decision to make. Take it somewhere else, which besides the towing you may have to pay up front and may not do any better of a job, or leave it and hope for the best. And if you haven't realized by now that you say Turbo Grand Prix, one of two things happen. A: They think its a regular grand prix that YOU think is fast, since they have never seen or heard of a Turbo GP, B: Think its a 98 or newer GTP, since for some turbo and super are interchangeable. So there is no news in this field. Its just impossible to get through sometimes. Honestly, I would be glad they are working on it and hope that they do a good job. I have had my share of problems getting the RIGHT transmission for these cars, much less letting someone else R&R it. We sent one out once, carefully explained what it was. It got there and they realized it was different and added $600 to the price, no matter how many times this was mentioned. Then they started taking things off, and stopped and gave the car back when they got to the turbo. They just wouldn't work on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Wrapping up a busy day and just saw this post, but Chris took care of it proper!! Wastegate hole cracks are on every TGP turbo I have seen (I have seen dozens here and have 7 TGP turbos at my garage right now!). It will not hurt performance in this turbo, and I have yet to see one that has gotten bad enough to threaten the integrity of the turbine/exhaust housing and I have seen some with long cracks at 3, 6, 9 and 12 o-clock positions!! Chris was also trying to help you out in steering you away from being too on these guys (I do understand your feelings at this point!!!) since if you piss them off enough, well…..they are not going to do anything extra for you or take as much care doing all this work, it’s a tricky path working with any shop so I understand your frustration here :cuss: , easy when you get there though if I may suggest, just use as much flame as needed, if they snap to and try their best then great, if they start dragging their feet, put a little pressure on, if they start doing sloppy work put your foot down (check back here first to be sure) and if they really screw up, the Better Business Bureau and/or Attorney Generals Office is there to assist, your taxes paid for these two government entities so they are there to use as needed!! Other than that, most tranny shops belong to ATRA, TRN and ATSG etc and from that can call for technical assistance, even other local tranny shops network to help each other with challenges, long as they are not too proud to make the calls!!! Email me so I can send the crossover pipe install sheet as this will help getting things back together for you and them! Go to my web site and email me from there!! Good Luck! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted October 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Well if it is possible for the car to be performing normally with a crack in the exhuast side of the housing then i guess it could i have been there. Should I get it fixed if i can??? or should i not even bother with the morons that are working on my tranny??? One of my buddies says he can get it welded for me so i was thinking about when i go down there today i could get the turbo and then have it welded and return it to the tranny guys so they can put it back on the car. I figure if I can get it fixed now then why not ya know??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 The crack(s) limit the max amount of boost ONLY IF there was a problem getting enough (safe) boost out of the turbo, and to that I have tested once (NO ONE else do this!!!) by wiring the wastegate shut and got 20 psi (WAY TOO much heat!!), even threaded I was able to run 17 to 18 psi (and 100 octane/custom chip and on cool/cold days only!), all this with a cracked turbine/exhaust housing!! So running a 92 octane safe 10 to 12 psi is all you need and that can be had easy with these little cracks, no problem!! You can get it welded but it will NOT hold!! Welding cast iron requires it to first be baked hot enough (VERY hot) to burn out the carbon in the pores of the iron or the weld will NOT hold. Then when done, heated to above 500 degrees while the welding is being done, and once it cools down below about 400 needs to go back in the oven to get back to the 500 degree target, not many shops can do this. At least THIS info should make you happy? 8) Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted October 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Yeah i hate to say this but i want everyone to know, when i did do this i was at the track and running above 100 octane. I unpluged the waste gate and that gave me 18 PSI. I know pretty much everyone has told me that this is not a safe level and should not be done on the TGP. But I am sure Jeff knows what is done to this car so i think if any motor can handle it, this one should be able to. Man Jeff, getting 20 PSI uh??? That would be crazy. But yes, I have run 18PSI so maybe that is how the thing got cracked, I am just hoping that when these guys took the turbo off they did not damage it more ya know??? But what I am getting from u guys is that they car will perform fine even with a crack in the exhaust housing??? I am sure i will be able to give all u guys plenty of info pretty soon because I will be down to look at the car in about an hour and 1/2. But thats what I am pretty much getting is that the car can run fine even with the crack and they was diffinately running fine before the tranny went. I could hit 18 PSI no prob!!! But, I guess it is also a possibility that they put the crack there and it will run like shit now..... I will let u guys know what i find out today ASAP! Thanks for all your guys's help, its great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 They all crack, it was probably cracked long before you hit 18psi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkorinko Posted October 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 Yeah I saw the turbo today, and there are three cracks near the wastgate, they are all pretty small and he said he will try and fix them but i should not even have to worry about them. But we found another problem while we were inspecting the turbo. There is shaft play, the shaft play is normal when u push it in and pull it out but when u push it up and down like towards the sky and towards the ground it moves! and i guess that is bad because it can hit the actual inside of the housing, which is no good, no good at all. So the turbo is being rebuilt pretty much as we speak and will be ready for them to put on when the tranny is finished. Looks like I will be getting my car back wednesday, because the tranny place is not open on the weekend. I would like to just grab a T3 Turbo but i know the flange is different....Jeff??? Could u help me out with that??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 A standard T3 has either a larger 4 bolt square or 3 bolt round flange. There are larger turbo's that will bolt in place of the t25. I would not bother trying to have the cracks fixed, may do more damage than good. Also, RADIAL movement of the turbo shaft is normal. The shaft floats on an oil film so this is the clearance for the oil. HOWEVER, thrust play (directly in and out) is NOT normal. So the thrust play is probably why you are hitting the housings. Glad to hear its getting taken care of, good luck! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.