Timing Belt Kit Search

[CPSMonteZ34]

My girlfriend works at a speed shop (bikes, snowmobiles, ATV's, etc.) and handed me the bible of automotive books. After diggin' through it, the Lordco catalogue listed Dayco Timing Belt Kits. Now, right on the main page was a picture of the box with, of all engines, the LQ1 pulley-side of the engine. Since the image of the LQ1 and the part number are shown on the same box, I need to know if 95299K1 is, indeed, the correct listing for our engine.

 

Also, I need to know the contents of this kit - for anything else I'll need to buy. I can only assume it comes with the belt, and two idler pulleys - or three if one includes the tensioner pulley.

 

I know I can, and probably will, ask the local Lordco distributor for this info as well. I'm asking to find out if anyone has any knowledge of the Dayco kit. The whole point is this - it's listed for retail at $250.97 Cdn before taxes...and I'll be able to get it cheaper yet through my gf's shop!

 

That beats the living $hit out of the $450+ quote through GM Parts!

[eclipse5302]

Hey

 

Doing the belt on your 95 should be cake. Suck for those with the 91-93 engines.

 

You need:

 

1.belt

2.idler pulleys

3.maybe tensioner...if it retracts/works OK, you shouldn't need to replace it

4.cam hold down tools

5.service manual for timing procedure

 

Get the motor apart and check your current timing. The LQ1's love to get out of time because the cams aren't keyed. I've seen many that are so far out of time they have no power, but run fine.

 

Follow the timing procedure EXACTLY. And double check it with the service manual!!!

 

1.Start with the rear bank (nearest to the firewall).

 

2.Losen the front and rear cam sprockets (all 4 of them). Just loosen enough for them to spin, and no more. They should spin freely of the cams. This will aid in timing and make it easier to install the belt.

 

3.Install the new parts (belt, idlers, maybe tensioner).

 

4.Put the engine at #1 TDC. MAKE SURE THIS IS CORRECT! You can also use the timing marks on the dampner and block.

 

5.Install the cam hold down tool on the rear bank. Tighten it down good, make sure it's seated on the flats on the cams perfectly.

 

6.With the engine at #1 TDC, and the cam tool TIGHTENED, step torque the cam sprockets to spec (I think it's 81 ft lbs, so torque to 70 ft lbs, the go to 81 ft lbs). Remove the cam hold down tool.

 

7.Mark the rear cam sprockets now, to verify timing later.

 

8.Spin the engine clockwise (don't spin backwards!) one revolution...use the timing marks on the dampner and block.

 

9.Install the cam hold down tool on the front bank now. Once fully seated, tighten the cam sprockets to spec.

 

10.Put it back together...you're done.

 

 

I've used this procedure on many cars with great success. This only works with the 94-96 engines...the 91-93 use a tapered fit cam lock, and they need a little different precedure.

 

 

You should double check the service manual to make sure what I've told you is correct. My memory is not always accurate. And sorry if you didn't need this info, maybe someone can use it.

 

 

Jason

[CPSMonteZ34]

Actually, I do need it. I had the procedure in a PDF file but it disappeared in my last system failure. I'll have to get ahold of it again unless someone has a dealer service manuals for the 95 LQ1 that I can buy. I've looked the procedure through a few times and figure it should be a relatively simple, but time consuming job.

 

The current belt is in good shape - but I'm more worried about what I can't see (the pulleys)...so I figure it's time to replace it.

 

Thanks

[chronic139]

buddy you dont need nothing extra on the earlier motors. I just did my 92's belt and it was cake. no pulleys as they were all fine and small clamps for hold down tools. but you dont even need those. just mark the cam sprocket and the block, so if they move you just turn em back. no problems.

[GnatGoSplat]

Is it possible to retime the cams without pulling the belt?

Also, how do you keep the cam sprockets from spinning when you tighten them down?

My 3.4 DOHC doesn't feel like it has as much HP as my TGP, and it should have more, so I'm kind of suspecting it may be out of time.

[eclipse5302]

You won't be able to get it perfectly right without the cam tools. This is becuase you still don't know if the sprocket has spun on the cam. The only way to check this is to use the cam hold down tools.

 

Not to mention, you have to torque those bolts to 81 ft lbs...I would guess it's pretty hard to hold them in place while tightening. And if they move 1-2 degrees, they are wrong.

 

Jason

[GnatGoSplat]

Assuming I had cam hold down tools, could the timing be set with the belt still on the sprockets?

Also, how do you keep the sprockets from moving when you're tightening them? I imagine if they aren't kept from moving, there would be a problem of them puttings strain on the belt.

 

Also, what all needs to come off the front of the engine so that the timing marks on the crankshaft are clearly visible?

 

I'm mainly just curious if timing can be corrected with nothing else removed except the plenum, cam covers, and plastic covers over the cam sprockets.

[CPSMonteZ34]

Yes, the belt must be on the cams in order to time them properly. The reason the cam sprockets are loosened from the cams is because sometimes even the sprockets have slipped from the cams. (Stupidity dictates that GM wasn't thinking when they didn't key the sprockets to the cams) Using the procedure to time the cams perfectly merely involves loosening, turning, and tightening of the cam sprockets and crank, and the hold-down tools make life easier; but I believe there is an actual tool shaped like a cup that covers the sprocket with extended steel fingers that rest against the head to keep it from turning while being tightened through a hole in the middle. Kent Moore is the manufacturer. The cam hold-down tools are listed as J-38613-A. I believe the sprocket holding tool is J-38614. You can look here to see what they are like: http://www.etoolcart.com/search.asp?7=kent+moore

 

To further make things easier, new marks should be scribed on the cams when it's timed so future examinations can be performed without having to remove all the covers.

 

I know pretty much everything from that side of the engine needs to be removed to gain access. The power steering pump is unbolted, but doesn't need to be disconnected from the lines. Unforunately, the intake plenum (upper intake) does need to be removed in order to gain visibility of the cam flats at the rear bank to verify the proper timing.

 

...and yes, it is important to note that in some cases, the belt will shred along its sides and fail, rendering the car dead, due to a failing pulley bearing. That's why it is important to replace the two idle pullies and tensioner pulley. Their bearings can seize much like that of regular wheel bearings; and we all know what happens when wheel bearings seize.

The tensioner should be replaced only if it appears to be binding or leaking badly. The aluminum cam sprockets do not need to be replaced unless their edges or threads are damaged - usually diagnosed due to an engine that won't run because the timing has gone WAY off if the cam sprockets were the culprit.

[GnatGoSplat]

Thanks Chris, great info!

If the cam bolts are loosened and assuming the cams may be a little cockeyed, will they straighten up and align themselves as the cam hold-down tool is tightened down?

I kind of wish I had the proper tools to have checked/corrected timing when I had the plenum off to do the lower intake. The valve covers are super simple to remove on this engine and it would have been nice to have been able to get it all fine-tuned.

 

I'll probably wait till belt replacement is necessary before I retime the engine because reinstalling that plenum was a bitch. Probably wouldn't have been so bad if that EGR weren't in the way. I'm not sure, but I think I may have cracked the EGR tube because I THINK the engine is a little louder than I remember my friend's '95 Monte Z34 being. It was difficult to move the EGR out of the way while carefully sliding the plenum up underneath it because the f'in plenum gets pretty heavy to hold while leaning over (my back was killing me). The 2.8/3.1 plenum is WAY easier and WAY lighter.

[CPSMonteZ34]

Actually, loosening the cam sprocket bolts will only affect the binding of the sprockets to the cams. The cams themselves won't move and will remain in their bearing guides - especially if the hold-down tool is already in place. The sprockets are held tight with a pressure-washer (or for simple terminology - a lowly friggin' lock-washer). All that's needed is loosening of the sprocket to allow it to spin freely while the cam-hold-down-tool keeps the cams in place. It's actually a very nicely designed method to time the cams.

 

I remember the EGR being quite the pain; but, it was good to me while I bent it out of the way. Putting the plenum back in was a chore, but I saved my back by literally kneeling in the engine bay and laying all over the place. Glad nobody had a camera or rumours might have started that I was making sweet-sweet love to my car, what with the images and the groaning going on.

 

*Grumble* - I just have to get all the parts first so I can actually get to this job. I thought to fabricate my own hold-down tools but figured, "EH!", too much work.

 

GM recommends replacement of all timing hardware (belt, idler pulleys, tensioner and pulley) at 100,000 kms. Some enthusiasts lost their belts before this mileage and recommend it be done earlier. I'm not as hard on my car as they are and I'm rolling into 130k kms with a belt that's just fine. (And not only by my own diagnosis, but three GM shops that have looked at it themselves) So I'll just be keeping an eye on the tension and the centering of the belt so I know the pulleys may still be alright while I get all the parts and tools. Trying to save money on this job means getting my parts and tools from all over. I mean, it's worth it considering this is the most expensive general maintenance job I've ever had to do on any car.

[GnatGoSplat]

Assuming I just want to retime the cams but don't want to remove the belt... if I turn the crankshaft to wherever it needs to be (tdc?) and the cams are out of alignment slightly, will loosening the sprocket bolts and tightening down the hold-down tools rotate the cams enough so that they're aligned? For instance, the flat part of the hold-down tools pushing down would cause the cam to rotate until its flats are completely against the flats of the hold-down tool.

I'm just curious, because I know as long as the belt is still on the sprockets, they can't be rotated.

[CPSMonteZ34]

I get what you're saying... you're looking to loosen the sprocket bolts, but want to make sure the cams turn freely enough to press inline with each other since one cannot turn the cam with, both, the belt on and the sprocket bolt tight. I doubt you'd be the first to try this, but you're the first that I'm aware of.

 

Reading the manual, it mentions to turn the camshafts so the flats are facing up, then install the hold-down tools. These steps are before loosening the sprockets and then installing the belt, so I assume they are referring to both front and rear pairs to be held-down before moving on. I would imagine the valve springs have enough tension to press the cam beyond the pressure of a hold-down tool being tightened in the hopes of forcing the flats up, but I could be wrong. It's not exactly something I'd like to test either unless I was ambitious enough to begin removing all the plastic shielding should it not work. Maybe that's what you should consider should the cams not want to do what you're referring to. Worst case scenario is that you'd have to do the whole job like the manual says as if replacing the belt.

[eclipse5302]

I've timed a 3.4 like you are wondering about Shawn...This only works on the 94+ LQ1's, because of how the sprockets are locked on the cams. 91-93 LQ1's are a bitch to time. You have to use a puller to loosen the sprocket (the cam is tapered) so it will spin on the cam. The 94+ LQ1's are much better. All you have to do is loosen the bolt, hit the sprocket with a rubber hammer (maybe) and the sprocket will spin freely. And there is no way the cams will have the flats up automatically...one cam will be off if anything. When you tighten the cam hold down tools, they will move the cams so the flats are up. This will happen without damaging the cams or the tools.

 

So to make a long story short, yes...you could just time the engine by loosening the cam bolts and tightening the cam hold down tools with the belt still on. The HD tools will align the flats just fine...as long as the sprockets are loose.

 

Jason

[GnatGoSplat]

Wow, great info, thanks guys.

Now I'm really glad I got a 94 instead of a 93! I was mainly concerned about the rear brakes and better park brake on a '94, but it looks like a 94 3.4 DOHC also has certain benefits.

 

Jason, is it really as easy as it sounds to retime the cams this way?

It sounds misleadingly easy. In fact, I'm wishing I could have done it when I had the plenum off, but I've already got the car all reassembled and it runs good enough that I won't worry about it for awhile.