Addicted2bass Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I would get the alt and battery tested again. Autozone should do this for free for you in the parking lot. Chance are it is not the battery but the alt. If you have a good alt in the car you should be able to disconnect the battery when the car is running and it will stay running fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 short coming from the fusible links on the starter. they always need replaced down there on every car I own. I have had them short out on the starter itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow96SE Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 If you have a good alt in the car you should be able to disconnect the battery when the car is running and it will stay running fine. While that test will work, I wouldn't get in the habit of doing it. An alternator is not meant to run a car by itself. It needs the battery to protect the system from spikes in voltage/current from the alternator, as well as shorting any AC current. This isn't so much a concern in older vehicles, but it can easily destroy sensitive circuitry in modern cars. Not to mention fry out diodes in the alternator itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 dude, your tripping. who makes a habit of NOT running a battery in a car? how do you work on anything electrical without experimenting to find out the problem? are we supposed to rely on your theory each time and sort through flame wars that you try to create? I think you should start a thread where you experiment on your own car then we will help you come to a conclusion based on your results. it is unreasonable to come and attack people here who know what they are doing and try to spin doctor stuff around and get the newbs confused. what power does the car run off of while driving? you should be asking instead of assuming. NONE of the power comes from a battery without first coming out of the alternator. so where should you draw the power from? you better believe, the alternator will be supplying it. yes the battery is there for the power supply when more is needed than the alt can put out, but that is only in absence of a capacitor. anything over the max output of the alt would be all the accessories running at once, and then some. I value your input in this discussion, I think you will be good with this if you gain some more real life experience and get some of the vocabulary and use the search function some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow96SE Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Do you really have nothing better to do than read posts without completely comprehending them just to attack people? It is pretty much common knowledge that unhooking the battery in a (modern) running vehicle is a very bad way to test an alternator, that is why there is equipment for it. And when did I say anything about the power coming from just the battery? I said alternators aren't designed to run a car by themselves, they NEED the battery to protect the car's circuitry. And if the alternator is indeed bad, and throwing out crazy spikes, the risk is even higher once you disconnect the batt. Seriously.. I offer up advice to stop people from potentially frying their ECM, or at the very least an alt diode/regulator, and you wanna jump down my throat. Edited February 20, 2011 by Shadow96SE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 alternators rarely go bad without having other issues. poor wiring is more likely the problem since stock wiring on all w-body cars barely work for 10 years without rotting from the inside out. you may consider 80's cars not modern enough to apply here but the same technology is there, just upgraded a little. new stuff can go into older cars and work just like the newer ones. newer wiring will corrode and fail just like the older wiring. many times taking alts and other electronics along with them. to repair the root of the problem would require replacing the beat up old wires and I know you probably agree with this. why would you be against replacing the main charge wire for the entire car though? it has to not only charge up the battery, but also supply the rest of the stuff too. for you to state that the battery regulates spikes in power from the alternator is completely false and makes me mad that you preach this like you are an expert. that job was given to the regulator mounted to the outside of the cs130d, or internally on the cs130. many people have had electrical issues with w-body cars and they are all pretty much wired the same way, from 88 through present day, not much has changed. many have changed out the alternator thinking it will solve the problem and been disappointed when it didn't fix it like it should. I know I have. I usually get duped into opting for an HO alt and really become disappointed when it will not put out anything at idle---the most important time, for not only the amp, but for when I am datalogging and tuning and testing out new chips in my TGP. I have destroyed many electronics by having poor charge at idle, the ECM was the least of my worries though. have like 10 of them laying around and probably 6 or so reprogrammable EEPROMS that I can reburn at any time. they will not operate below 12 volts properly though and that makes tuning impossible so I rely on my capacitor and having the proper stator in my alt to keep things where they need to be. for you to keep saying that they shouldn't be used and "get a HO alt" is contrary to my experience trying to tune these cars. taking that advice might cause me a 6 month setback before I pull out my hair in frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow96SE Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Yea.. I'll just back out of this thread now.. cause I have no idea what you're even talking about. Half the stuff you continue to ramble on about has nothing to do with anything I have said. Anyway to the OP, hope you get your problem fixed, ghost noises in the radio can be highly annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Not to threadjack or anything, but I had to jump in and say something. The idea of leaving the stock charge wire causing more resistance is asinine. The resistance in the stock wiring is so low, that it wouldn't be a big deal even if it did matter. Yes, stock wiring can't carry as much current as larger gauge wire you add for the Big 3, but it does not diminish anything either. It is like trying to fill a pool with a garden hose, then adding a bigger hose that pumps out more water. You do not get reduced flow, you increase it. Since the larger wire will have less resistance, your main draw will jump across that anyway. Leaving the smaller wire affects nothing, and is pretty much common practice in any Big 3 upgrade. Besides, that stock wire is fused anyway, so would blow itself if something went wrong. And, honestly, the Big 3 has been shown to really not make a whole lot of difference to begin with. The ones who really see the biggest gain, are people who are driving older cars that have corroded connections on their stock ground/amp wires. And for the record, caps are never a good idea as they just put more strain on your electrical system. Get an extra battery if you think you need a cap. this is what you typed. you said something about blowing fuses and the big 3 is over rated. and caps will add strain to your electrical system. add an extra battery like its gonna power the car or something if we need a cap? wtf? it all contradicts basic knowledge. common as caps are sold at walmart across the nation. if there was no use why do they sell my friend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 well, you could say the same thing about all the snakeoil "fuel optimizer" crap out there, they apparently sell. caps do have their place, in that they can almost instantaneously charge and discharge, compared to a standard lead-acid battery that can only supply so much current in a given period of time. that makes caps useful in anything that will have radical changes in power draw in a short amount of time, however, capacitors don't actually have that great of capacity, ironic as that is. charge a cap to ~14.4 volts, then connect a 60Watt 9005 headlamp bulb to it, see how long it takes before the bulb goes dim, it's actually not that long. connect it to any W-body sized battery in decent condition and it may take an entire day(i'd need to run the calcs to be certain). so, with not much capacity, a cap DOESN'T add that much strain to a proper electrical system once it's charged, since it is basically there to filter voltage for whatever electronic component it's connected to, by "stiffening" the voltage(making it less resistant to change, higher or lower). a second battery? also not that much of a strain, when it's charged(it will act a lot like a capacitor when it is). if a lot of it's capacity is discharged before any kind of recharging takes place (engine off, radio on), then it will be a larger burden on the alt than normal, due to the alt having to supply power to everything running in the vehicle, maintaining the voltage of the primary battery, and the secondary battery trying to absorb as much voltage as it can to get up to the voltage the alt's regulator is putting out. now if you have both the primary and secondary batteries active at all times(worked well for me), then most of this applies as well, just that the primary and secondary batteries should get drained fairly equally, assuming they are in a similar state of health, capacity, design, etc... so, now that we're all on the same page... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbmcdona Posted February 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 UPDATE: I've did some more work on the car today and still can't figure out this problem. I found that two wires on the alternator plug were damaged so I repaired those by cutting them and splicing them back together. I proceeded to check the voltage with a multimeter as well with the car idling and all of the accesories off I measure 14.3 V from the AUX post to ground. However with everything on including the headlights and AC I only measure 12.5 V which is what I also measure with the car off. I thought with a big three upgrade I wouldn't be experiencing this kind of voltage drop at idle. I am still getting the noise in me radio as well so I went under the dash and tried a few things. The noise is there whether the antennae is plugged in or not so atleast I have eliminated the antennae lead as a source of noise. I tried grounding the chasis of the radio and that didn't do anything. Also decided to go the other way with it and use rubber washers to isolate the radio from grounding to the bracket and that didn't do anything either. This whole mess is becoming very frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Back to the alt argument FWIW I tried the disconnect the battery test on an 80's cavalier and it died instantly. Alt was good, batt was toast. As for the alt noise, is it coming from the speakers or the alt itself? I noticed that my alt itself whines when I have my lights on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 that kind of voltage drop is normal, due to the alt not being able to supply enough current on it's own at that low of a speed. larger wires won't help insufficient current generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Random question: what's your voltage look like with your blinker on? My battery is weak and at idle with the blinker on I drop from 14.3 to 12 or even high 11's . This is with big 3 done in 4 gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbmcdona Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 The noise is coming from the speakers, the alternator itself is more or less quiet. I tried the turn signal, with nothing else on the voltage was still around 14 V but with everything on it drops down to 12.5 V. So the turn signals don't have much of an affect. I do notice though that when I have the headlights and the AC on and then turn on my turn signal the lights in the HVAC buttons blink with the turn signal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliasCT Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Well, the turn signal does draw current... I get that too, except mine is above 13v with lights and signal on (A/C is non-op) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 what is your max output on your alternator? it is very possible that you have the wrong stator internally and getting a max output that is higher at the expense of weak idle. a lower (higher) output one installed in there if you will stay with me on this, will give you a better low rpm output. I had this exact problem with both my cs130d that I just had built and on the cs130's I used to deal with. I used a different lower max output stator along with the smallest diameter pulley I could find. this should fix you up I am pretty confident. you may have to get a part ordered and the alternator rebuilt, or get a differently rated alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 technically.... you could rewind the stator yourself, but that's a LOT of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbmcdona Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Thanks for the input on the alternator. That actually makes a lot of sense especially since this was supposed to be the higher output alternator that autozone sells. I guess it is higher output at a sacrifice of very little power at idle. I'm not too sure what the max output on the alternator is in amps yet. My stupid multimeter was misbehaving when I was trying to measure the amp output, but it is putting out a max of 14.3 V. As for the radio what are people's thoughts on putting some kind of filter on the power wire for the radio? I have never used one before but was thinking it might help. I was considering ground loop isolators as well but the ones I have are for RCA cables not regular old speaker wires. I had used them when I had a system installed in my Altima SE-R. Thanks again for all the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 yea robert, you know what I am saying because you saw the datalogs and proof when I had recently dealt with that one alternator shop in town, you were trying to help me with tuning and it set us back for months while that guy was taking his sweet time re-rebuilding it. he had to get a special puller and yank out the stator and reorder the part. charged me $40 more even though I never ordered a HO stator to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 you know, you're right, i forgot about that whole fiasco until now.... and Cbmcdona, please tell me you're trying to use a clamp meter to measure amperage? the normal leads for a multimeter will NOT handle the current you'll be seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Thanks for the input on the alternator. That actually makes a lot of sense especially since this was supposed to be the higher output alternator that autozone sells. I guess it is higher output at a sacrifice of very little power at idle. I'm not too sure what the max output on the alternator is in amps yet. My stupid multimeter was misbehaving when I was trying to measure the amp output, but it is putting out a max of 14.3 V. As for the radio what are people's thoughts on putting some kind of filter on the power wire for the radio? I have never used one before but was thinking it might help. I was considering ground loop isolators as well but the ones I have are for RCA cables not regular old speaker wires. I had used them when I had a system installed in my Altima SE-R. Thanks again for all the help. I bet it will go away when you get the alt ironed out. I had the same exact feedback when having all the same problems. it went away right before I yanked the stock stereo. I was going to stay all stock, but then suddenly changed my mind and went aftermarket. but I totally remember thinking wow I fixed the buzz, but my tape player will not eject the tape, so this thing has to go. it was nice to fix that one issue though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbmcdona Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Hi guys. Well I think I fixed my charging problem today. The car is at 14.3 V at all times now except when idling with the headlights on which I assume is normal. I also had the charging system checked at autozone and everything passed. At idle the alternator was putting out 48 amps. I replaced the alternator again and redid one of my grounds. I had previously run the engine to battery tray ground directly from the engine to the batter, I redid it and put it back to the battery tray which seemed to help. I am still experiencing the same noise in my radio though I did notice that the buzzing doesn't come from all of the speakers, only the right front and left rear. Since it isn't all of the speakers I'm starting to the think the factory amp is shot, but I could be wrong. This amp was replaced recently with a used one though so it seems weird that they would both do this. I didn't replace the controller/display in the dash or the tape deck though, could either of these be the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Maybe the speakers are grounding out against the car? I haven't personally experienced this but have heard of it being an issue on other forums. Try pulling the speaker off the metal and see if it goes away. If not maybe it's the amp then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gp1991 Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 hey have you fixed the problem yet by any chance because my car does this and it would be really nice to see a possible solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 Hi guys. Well I think I fixed my charging problem today. The car is at 14.3 V at all times now except when idling with the headlights on which I assume is normal. I also had the charging system checked at autozone and everything passed. At idle the alternator was putting out 48 amps. I replaced the alternator again and redid one of my grounds. I had previously run the engine to battery tray ground directly from the engine to the batter, I redid it and put it back to the battery tray which seemed to help. I am still experiencing the same noise in my radio though I did notice that the buzzing doesn't come from all of the speakers, only the right front and left rear. Since it isn't all of the speakers I'm starting to the think the factory amp is shot, but I could be wrong. This amp was replaced recently with a used one though so it seems weird that they would both do this. I didn't replace the controller/display in the dash or the tape deck though, could either of these be the issue? wait. there should be a ground from engine-to-battery AND one from engine-to-battery tray. what gauge wire did you run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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