cutlassman Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Hi everyone. I have a '92 Cutlass Convertible. Late last year the battery began getting weak. After recharging a couple times, the battery finally wouldn't even hold a charge - that was late-January. The battery was almost five years old and had a useful life, so I bought a new one. No problems...until just a few days ago. I don't drive the Cutlass everyday as we have two other vehicles, so after a couple days of sitting, the car cranked slowly for a second before starting. Obviously, the new battery was getting weak! There are no obvious signs of a parasitic leak (no hood or truck light stuck on, no interior lights, etc.). I did a parasitic drain test today with my multimeter. At first, I was running around 1.50 amps. I disconnected the cables to the driver's side keyhole light and the seat belt connectors and it dropped to around .77 amps. Here's what's strange: opening and closing the door would give me different readings. Sometimes it was around .77 amps, then other times it was around .01 amps. I figured the switch in the door jamb might be bad, so I cleaned it up real good. Still, I'm getting around .75 amps most of the time, but sometimes .01 amps, changing as I open and close the door. Do you think the door jamb switch is bad? There doesn't seem to be much that can go wrong if it's clean - it's a simple switch. Any other ideas on what's causing the intermittent drain? If I pull the ELEC and CTSY fuses, I get .01 amps all the time. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carkhz316 Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Up to .100 amps is the limit. When the amperage is changing with the opening and closing of the door, it's whatever interior lights you have turning on and off, though that should bring the amp draw to something like 3-4 amps. Also, check your other door switch. That one may be faulty. Otherwise, look into what's on the circuit for the ELEC fuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutlassman Posted February 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 I'm getting around 3.70 amps with the dome and courtesy lights on, then around .75 when I close the door and those lights go out. Sometimes, though, the reading comes in around .01 amps after I close the door. Seems like whatever is shorting doesn't do it all the time. I'll check the jamb switch on the passenger's door to see if that's the problem. I'll also try to find a diagram of the electrical circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carkhz316 Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Did you pull all the fuses? About 2 years ago, I had a drain, and it was about .75 amps. Turns out it was the one for the stupid seatbelt lock solenoids in the doors. They are supposed to come on only when the key is on and the doors are closed, which coincides with your situation. Check that one, unless you did already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutlassman Posted February 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 I didn't pull all the fuses, just the Radio (which didn't make a difference), then the Electrical, and Courtesy fuses to get the amps down to .01. With all the fuses in, I did disconnect the wires from each seat belt connector on the driver's side and that accounted for a .75 amp drop in the readings. I didn't pull the connectors on the passenger's side, but maybe I should. Do you remember which fuse those solenoids fall under, by chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carkhz316 Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 I want to say it something along the lines of being labeled seat belt:STBLT; SEAT. Something like that. Just look at the little fuse panel cover and look for one that corresponds, otherwise, just start pulling fuses again and watch your multimeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 When you close your door, listen for about 20 seconds. After a short period, you should hear a small release sound that is your seatbelt lock solenoids releasing. If they do not, there's your issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 my 92 vert has the same issue. it lies with the relay and timer control related to the seatbelt mechanism, but that relay also controls the light hoop. on the lower right of the bottom of the dash, above the passenger's feet, there will be a 3 inch long black relay with a few wires tucked in to the right of the electrical center, which you will see once you remove the black plastic cover from that area. remove the relay and see if the drain disappears. also, a side note. the keyring light and the seatbelts are the same circuit. for safety I recommend electrically isolating the seatbelts. thats to say unplug them. I believe they are unsafe in the event of a collision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutlassman Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Is the "seatbelt lock solenoid" the same as the "relay and timer control"? I'm going to remove that control from under the dash when I have a chance to work on the car in the morning and check the amperage with the multimeter to see if that's the culprit. Two questions: can that control cause an intermittent drain issue when it begins failing that can somehow be triggered by the opening and closing of the doors? Also, is that part interchangeable with other W-bodies from 88-94? If that's the problem, I'll go to one of the local salvage yards this weekend and raid a Cutlass or a Regal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regallyblack Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 with your meter hooked up, simply pull out every single fuse till your drawing around 10mA ( providing no lights are on, key out of ignition etc..). Whatever the fuse is labeled might not be your draw.. it can be something else on that same fuse. The best way to make sure is to get a diagram on that fuse, or get a legend from the manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutlassman Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Okay, good news guys...I found the problem. Here's what happened: I hooked up the multimeter and was pulling around .62 amps with everything off. I then disconnected the two sets of wires going to the passenger's side seat belt in the door (the driver's side was already disconnected). The multimeter dropped to .01 amps. BINGO! I took the lower right hand dash protector off (plastic piece, above passenger's feet compartment) and found the long 3.5" relay. I plugged one set of wires back up to the seat belt on the passenger's side and the multimeter jumped to .37 amps. I then disconnected the relay in the dash and the multimeter dropped to .01 amps. Here's a pic of the relay in case someone else has the same problem. Good call, guys. Thanks for the help. Anytime something is wrong with the car, my wife says sell it. I tell her she must be out of her mind - NO WAY! I've had this car for nine years - it's part of who I am! Just need to fix the little things that crop up. BTW, is this relay uniform across other W-Bodies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutlassman Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Just an update on my situation. I went to the junkyard and pulled the long relay from a '92 Regal, same part number, and put that in my car. I didn't take the time to hook up the multimeter, though. Big mistake. Two days later my battery is completely dead. I had the battery recharged and also grabbed three more relays from the yard, thinking the one I grabbed was also bad. With the fresh battery installed and the relay still out, the multimeter was reading .01 amps. With one of the replacement relays installed, sometimes I would get .01 amps, sometimes I would get 1.41 amps (changed when I would open/close the door or remove/attach the relay). So, the problem is not with the relay. Instead, the problem is with one or more of the solenoids attached to each part of the seat belt in the driver's and/or passenger's door. I took one of the protective covers off and have a shot of the solenoid, I just don't have it now to post. When the solenoid(s) remain locked, they draw a lot of juice. If they release, they don't draw anything. All four of those solenoids go thru the relay under the dash. My question: what in the hell do those little solenoids do? There are lead weights on a pendulum that lock up the seat belt in the event of a collision, so what's with the solenoids? By moving the tiny lever in there back-and-forth, I can't figure out what their purpose is, other than to piss me off. As of now, I have all four sets of wires going to the solenoids on the seat belts still attached, but I have the relay disconnected under the dash and I'm only drawing .01 amps - perfect. Has anyone replaced those solenoids and had success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Pretensioners or something? I was told to unplug them and leave them that way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManicMechanic Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 My 1992 CS 'vert did the same thing...I never did replace the relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carkhz316 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the solenoids are are supposed to energize and effectively lock the seatbelts only when the ignition is on, and the door is closed, something along those lines. When you unlatch the door, (as in just starting to open it), the solenoid turns off, allowing the you to open the door, while still being buckled in. Interesting design, fail at execution. If the cutty is wired similar to the luminas and such, there should be a fuse just for those solenoids. Just pull it. (seat/ STBLT. See posts above) Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitzel Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) There is no fuse specifically for the relay/solenoid on the 1992 Cutlass Supreme. But the relay, a TRW part 10098650 is attached, by way of a clip, to the left side of the passenger-side lower electrical panel. Accessed by removing the cover above the feet. I think I've been suffering this parasitic drain problem for years, so hopefully removing the relay does the trick! BTW OP, thank you so much for putting this thread on here. This car's been a nightmare for the past number of years because of these little things, yet the individual issues, once properly diagnosed, are easy enough to deal with and not worth buying a new car over. Edited February 19, 2015 by pitzel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitzel Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 A rather long and convoluted 3 hour long Youtube video on diagnosing this problem. [video=youtube;lNkN8JSWeNU] [video=youtube;h06xb6SC7Yc] [video=youtube;dgvIicgZRcQ] Documentation sucks, but the bottom line is, if you have an earlier W-body that is draining the battery, its well worthwhile to know about the existence of the "passive restraint relay" before you get sucked into the mess of pulling the car half apart to repair stuff like that instructor did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 ................... suddenly, this explains a few things that happened with a couple of earlier w-bodies I've been in. I could never figure out why it used two separate door switches, now it kind of makes sense. http://imgur.com/xdb7oy6,GZ63HzD,PhaIs4n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitzel Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 ................... suddenly, this explains a few things that happened with a couple of earlier w-bodies I've been in. I could never figure out why it used two separate door switches, now it kind of makes sense. http://imgur.com/xdb7oy6,GZ63HzD,PhaIs4n Good find on the bulletin. It seems to me that operation is actually less safe with that relay installed, as the relay may, while driving, energize the solenoid inappropriately (much as it does when the car is parked, to the obvious detriment of the battery!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 GM seems to have went out of its way to avoid stating that it only really works if you leave the belts buckled at all times(the way they're intended to be used but aren't for obvious reasons). used as conventional belts? tensioned at all times probably isn't a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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