Guest TurboSedan Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 in attempt to compete with my brother's cars i have decided to step up to '00+ GEN-III heads and intake for my Turbo STE. i found a 2001 LG8 3100 at the salvage yard today and i can get everything i need for $150. i'll feel much more comfortable getting something bigger than a GT28RS with the '00+ heads and intake. some stuff i'm worried about: - what needs to be done to the valvetrain? i looked at the Hybrid section on domesticcrew.com and it shows that you need to cut the pushrod guide off the LIM gasket but they don't say what to use for lifters, pushrods or rockers. would i retain the stock LG5 flat-tappet hydraulic lifters? what about pushrods and rockers? are custom length pushrods required? - what about using the TGP exhaust manifolds on the 3100 heads? how much do i need to grind off to fit the D-shaped ports? i've never done anything like that but i don't want that to keep me from doing this. - how do i get the fuel lines to work? anyways, i'm going out to get this stuff tomarrow or Friday and probably pulling the heads/intake from my TSTE starting next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 in attempt to compete with my brother's cars i have decided to step up to '00+ GEN-III heads and intake for my Turbo STE. i found a 2001 LG8 3100 at the salvage yard today and i can get everything i need for $150. i'll feel much more comfortable getting something bigger than a GT28RS with the '00+ heads and intake. some stuff i'm worried about: - what needs to be done to the valvetrain? i looked at the Hybrid section on domesticcrew.com and it shows that you need to cut the pushrod guide off the LIM gasket but they don't say what to use for lifters, pushrods or rockers. would i retain the stock LG5 flat-tappet hydraulic lifters? what about pushrods and rockers? are custom length pushrods required? - what about using the TGP exhaust manifolds on the 3100 heads? how much do i need to grind off to fit the D-shaped ports? i've never done anything like that but i don't want that to keep me from doing this. - how do i get the fuel lines to work? anyways, i'm going out to get this stuff tomarrow or Friday and probably pulling the heads/intake from my TSTE starting next week. First off, good luck with the swap! As for the valvetrain, I used the older heads so I just re-used the rockers off my Gen II heads and that allowed me to retain the stock pushrods as well. Lifters are stock as well (although new due to my cam). If you look it up on the domesticcrew.com site I know they explain somewhere what you can run for valvetrain to use stock pushrods. I can't remember off the top of my head anymore what you have to do to use them. I know if you run the stud style rockers you should be able to use stock pushrods with no problem. As for the exhaust manifolds, I just took a dremel to mine and matched them to the 3x00 manifold gasket. When you install them you need to be careful though because due to the small size of the manifolds if the gasket isn't lined up perfectly with the manifolds you will have an exhaust leak. For fuel lines you use the 3x00 rails with your injectors. To connect them you just connect your rubber hoses on your lines to the metal ends and get the fuel line clamps for them. This seemed to work well for me. Hope that helps. As far as I know that will be LG5 3x00 topend swap number 3. (Jud, then me, now you, but I could be wrong) Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 i'm pretty excited to get started on this i found the info on domesticcrew.com about the valvetrain. it looks like i need to reuse the older lifters and the newer 1.6:1 ratio roller fulcrum rockers. then i need custom length pushrods because the stock GEN-II pushrods are a bit too long. no biggie. i'll have to look around a little more to see what needs to be done to retain stock GEN-II pushrods - from what i read on domesticcrew.com they don't recommend it. i don't know what cam to go with but i'd like to use LS1 valve springs. according to Ben the stock GEN-II heads have a 26.x CC combustion chamber whereas the GEN-III heads have a 28.x CC chamber. so the CR should be even lower than the TGP's 8.8:1....awesome hopefully i can have all of this back together and running by the end of August with the 5-speed. then it's time to start saving for injectors, big turbo and FMIC. i'd like to eventually reach 300-325whp. maybe then i'll finally paint the car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futuretgper Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 sounds fun.......keep a journal for us!!! problems and solutions of day-to-snags along with a catalog of pics would be pretty awsome! good luck! ps do before and after dyno runs too would ya!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 i'm pretty excited to get started on this i found the info on domesticcrew.com about the valvetrain. it looks like i need to reuse the older lifters and the newer 1.6:1 ratio roller fulcrum rockers. then i need custom length pushrods because the stock GEN-II pushrods are a bit too long. no biggie. i'll have to look around a little more to see what needs to be done to retain stock GEN-II pushrods - from what i read on domesticcrew.com they don't recommend it. i don't know what cam to go with but i'd like to use LS1 valve springs. according to Ben the stock GEN-II heads have a 26.x CC combustion chamber whereas the GEN-III heads have a 28.x CC chamber. so the CR should be even lower than the TGP's 8.8:1....awesome hopefully i can have all of this back together and running by the end of August with the 5-speed. then it's time to start saving for injectors, big turbo and FMIC. i'd like to eventually reach 300-325whp. maybe then i'll finally paint the car You're gonna want injectors pretty much right away. As soon as I did my topend thats when my injectors were maxed on my STE. They are the reason why I only run 8psi boost because they are maxed. If you're shooting for that kind of whp then you're gonna want some BIG injectors. I'm also not sure about those combustion chamber numbers, because from what I remember, the Gen 3 heads have the same size chamber as the N/A Gen II heads. Therefore they will bring your compression back up to the 8.9:1. (assuming you are running TGP heads) I know I'm running stock lifters, pushrods, and rocker arms on my car. I have the older heads with the studs in them however. If you can put the studs in the newer heads that might be the best way to go. I'm not sure if you can do that however. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 i'm pretty excited to get started on this i found the info on domesticcrew.com about the valvetrain. it looks like i need to reuse the older lifters and the newer 1.6:1 ratio roller fulcrum rockers. then i need custom length pushrods because the stock GEN-II pushrods are a bit too long. no biggie. i'll have to look around a little more to see what needs to be done to retain stock GEN-II pushrods - from what i read on domesticcrew.com they don't recommend it. i don't know what cam to go with but i'd like to use LS1 valve springs. according to Ben the stock GEN-II heads have a 26.x CC combustion chamber whereas the GEN-III heads have a 28.x CC chamber. so the CR should be even lower than the TGP's 8.8:1....awesome hopefully i can have all of this back together and running by the end of August with the 5-speed. then it's time to start saving for injectors, big turbo and FMIC. i'd like to eventually reach 300-325whp. maybe then i'll finally paint the car You're gonna want injectors pretty much right away. As soon as I did my topend thats when my injectors were maxed on my STE. They are the reason why I only run 8psi boost because they are maxed. If you're shooting for that kind of whp then you're gonna want some BIG injectors. I'm also not sure about those combustion chamber numbers, because from what I remember, the Gen 3 heads have the same size chamber as the N/A Gen II heads. Therefore they will bring your compression back up to the 8.9:1. (assuming you are running TGP heads) I know I'm running stock lifters, pushrods, and rocker arms on my car. I have the older heads with the studs in them however. If you can put the studs in the newer heads that might be the best way to go. I'm not sure if you can do that however. Shawn i have TGP injectors in my Cutlass and it is running wayyy too rich. A/F on the dyno was off the scale as soon as it spooled. does the 3x00 really require larger injectors? because it seems like retaining the TGP injectors with the 3x00 topend might just be a good combo. i guess the only way i'll know for sure is with WB which i will have to have before turning up the boost. i will likely start with a new set of 22lb/hr L36 injectors (so long as they are compatible with the 3x00 fuel rail) and go from there. the injectors in the TSTE right now all tested 11.7-11.9 ohms so they gotta go. i'm going to retain the 1.6 roller rockers if all it means is i have to get different length pushrods.[br]Posted on: May 05, 2006, 12:55:34 AM_________________________________________________ sounds fun.......keep a journal for us!!! problems and solutions of day-to-snags along with a catalog of pics would be pretty awsome! good luck! ps do before and after dyno runs too would ya!! i'll definately get lots of pics of the process! i did all the same type of stuff with the 3.1 Turbo in my Cutlass last year and it was alot of fun. i'm looking forward to doing it again with 3x00 stuff. i won't be able to do before and after dyno runs though. i just put the TSTE in my garage tonight in preparation of removing the engine & trans. the Getrag 282 will also be going in so i'll be taking alot of 5-speed swap pics too. i guess i'll just have to compare the results with what my Cutlass did on the dyno. for this year i'm only concentrating on the 3x00 topend, 5-speed swap and finishing the suspension. - still need clutch, flywheel and axles for 5-speed swap - still need tires, rear coilovers, front & rear struts and rear strut mounts for suspension. - all of the related costs for 3x00 topend swap like valve job, pushrods, injectors, sensors, WB02, gaskets, PS pump etc i'm going to be lucky getting all of that taken care of this year yet. later on i want to get a larger BB turbo and FMIC but those are going to be EXPENSIVE. the turbo and intercooler upgrade alone are probably going to be around $2000. no way can i afford that until 2007 it would be nice to eventually reach 350whp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z284pwr Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Oh lots of pictures is fun This will definitely be an interesting thing to see, 3x00 top end AND a 5spd.....hmm, could be pretty wild! And of course I'm still willing to offer you some $$$ for the trans from the TSTE to help give you a little bit of funds for your project. Oh and best of luck . Custom stuff can always get quite interesting.....wow some of the stories I have heard of custom stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twalt13 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 I have 90% of all of the parts to do a swap (2000 3100 top end) once I return to the states also. I'll have it on the road next summer. I think Kenny is doing one also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 IMO that is the stupidist thing to do as the turbo grand prix no longer looks factory. i want 12s on the stock looking top end might not happen but eventyally i will hit 12s. im told with slicks i would run constant 13s as my tires were actually burning out at the line many times. i hear ya there. i don't want to upgrade to 3x00 top-end because i personally think the 3.1 MPFI plenum just looks alot nicer. not to mention the "3.1 Intercooled Turbo" is kind of nice too didn't think you wanted to do that?! Oh well good luck with it, take lots of pics (Like you need me to tell you that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 IMO that is the stupidist thing to do as the turbo grand prix no longer looks factory. i want 12s on the stock looking top end might not happen but eventyally i will hit 12s. im told with slicks i would run constant 13s as my tires were actually burning out at the line many times. i hear ya there. i don't want to upgrade to 3x00 top-end because i personally think the 3.1 MPFI plenum just looks alot nicer. not to mention the "3.1 Intercooled Turbo" is kind of nice too but...it has to go considering my plans for the car...particularly the turbocharger. i'm REALLY liking the GT3071R-WG. same big turbine that Jud has with his GT3076R-WG (biggest available with T25 inlet flange as far as i know) but a smaller compressor side. still alot bigger compressor (and turbine of course) than the GT28RS or even the GT2871R though. basically i want the biggest turbine available (with T25 inlet flange) but don't want to go too overkill with the compressor. with the GT3071R-WG compressor i'm almost afraid it would surge considering how shitty the MPFI intake flows so just another reason it's gotta go. you only quoted the 1st part of my post Jay you must not have read the next paragraph [br]Posted on: May 05, 2006, 12:32:58 PM_________________________________________________ And of course I'm still willing to offer you some $$$ for the trans from the TSTE to help give you a little bit of funds for your project. i'll let you know when i get it out of there Brian. i just replaced the filter and pan gasket last Monday. the trans looked frickin brand new inside. i even found my TSTE's VIN # stamped on the case so it's original. it's in excellent shape. i'll take anything i can get - i don't want to store this thing as i'd rather have the garage space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 i'm pretty excited to get started on this i found the info on domesticcrew.com about the valvetrain. it looks like i need to reuse the older lifters and the newer 1.6:1 ratio roller fulcrum rockers. then i need custom length pushrods because the stock GEN-II pushrods are a bit too long. no biggie. i'll have to look around a little more to see what needs to be done to retain stock GEN-II pushrods - from what i read on domesticcrew.com they don't recommend it. i don't know what cam to go with but i'd like to use LS1 valve springs. according to Ben the stock GEN-II heads have a 26.x CC combustion chamber whereas the GEN-III heads have a 28.x CC chamber. so the CR should be even lower than the TGP's 8.8:1....awesome hopefully i can have all of this back together and running by the end of August with the 5-speed. then it's time to start saving for injectors, big turbo and FMIC. i'd like to eventually reach 300-325whp. maybe then i'll finally paint the car You're gonna want injectors pretty much right away. As soon as I did my topend thats when my injectors were maxed on my STE. They are the reason why I only run 8psi boost because they are maxed. If you're shooting for that kind of whp then you're gonna want some BIG injectors. I'm also not sure about those combustion chamber numbers, because from what I remember, the Gen 3 heads have the same size chamber as the N/A Gen II heads. Therefore they will bring your compression back up to the 8.9:1. (assuming you are running TGP heads) I know I'm running stock lifters, pushrods, and rocker arms on my car. I have the older heads with the studs in them however. If you can put the studs in the newer heads that might be the best way to go. I'm not sure if you can do that however. Shawn i have TGP injectors in my Cutlass and it is running wayyy too rich. A/F on the dyno was off the scale as soon as it spooled. does the 3x00 really require larger injectors? because it seems like retaining the TGP injectors with the 3x00 topend might just be a good combo. i guess the only way i'll know for sure is with WB which i will have to have before turning up the boost. i will likely start with a new set of 22lb/hr L36 injectors (so long as they are compatible with the 3x00 fuel rail) and go from there. the injectors in the TSTE right now all tested 11.7-11.9 ohms so they gotta go. i'm going to retain the 1.6 roller rockers if all it means is i have to get different length pushrods. I don't know how much boost you are running with your TSTE or anything, but with my topend swap, with the P&P'd heads, and my cam, my injectors aren't big enough to keep up. I have to turn my boost down so it doesn't run too lean. Before the swap however the car was running really rich (off the scale just as yours is), but thats just due to how the topgun chip is setup combined with my cracked crossover. However, since you're not doing a cam and you might not be running as much boost as I was you might be okay with the 22lb. injectors, however you're doing the newer topend swap with the bigger ports and i have the older smaller stuff. I also haven't ohm'd my STE injectors so they may just be shot (very possible). Before I do much of anything else to the car its definately getting the L67 injectors that I have sitting around installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Have you done any tuning for yourself with the setup you have now Shawn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 change of plans already the other day when i found the previously mentioned 3100 there was also a 3400 right next to it. i initially dismissed it because the guy had told me earlier it was locked up but it wasn't - i turned the balancer over by hand. that was enough for me to chose the 3400 over the 3100 i got the complete 3400 LA1 engine for $150. the oil IS milky though so it will need a rebuild if i actually plan on going the full on 3400 route instead of 3.1L GEN-II/GEN-III hybrid. i am really liking the idea of increased displacement, improved oiling and full roller valvetrain. not to mention i could keep my TSTE's LG5 intact. i'm going over with my brother's truck to pick it up in about an hour. i'll have to post some pics.[br]Posted on: May 05, 2006, 03:18:37 PM_________________________________________________ http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/3400/DSC02559.JPG http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/3400/DSC02560.JPG http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/3400/DSC02561.JPG http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/3400/DSC02562.JPG http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/3400/DSC02563.JPG http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/3400/DSC02564.JPG not bad for $150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl3196 Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Kickass josh! Turbo that 3400! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Have you done any tuning for yourself with the setup you have now Shawn? I've done no tuning at all becuase i have no way to do any tuning. I was about to get the stuff I need to do some tuning, then I bought my '99 GP. Funds became much smaller and I wasn't driving the STE so it became much less of a priority and is still on my list of things to get to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z284pwr Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 And of course I'm still willing to offer you some $$$ for the trans from the TSTE to help give you a little bit of funds for your project. i'll let you know when i get it out of there Brian. i just replaced the filter and pan gasket last Monday. the trans looked frickin brand new inside. i even found my TSTE's VIN # stamped on the case so it's original. it's in excellent shape. i'll take anything i can get - i don't want to store this thing as i'd rather have the garage space. Excellent, I'm definitely still interested then. You let me know and we'll definitely figure something out on picking it up from you somewhere in Wyoming there. Also, good find with that 3400. The turning over my hand thing is kinda scarey, you are either a really brolly dude or it has like 0 compression at all. Hopefully you don't find anything catastrophically bad when you tear it apart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted May 8, 2006 Report Share Posted May 8, 2006 i'm about 5'10" 175lbs and twig forearms it felt normal to turn over by hand. i'd say it felt just like turning over the 3.1 Turbo in my Cutlass when i was working on that engine last year. i haven't gotten the heads pulled off yet, but as you can see i have my work cut out for me: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/3400/DSC02575.JPG cause of death: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/3400/DSC02586.JPG coolant must have been gushing in probably safe to assume it took out some rod/main bearings. hopefully i can get this to the machine shop soon so they can tell me what i'm going to need. if worse comes to worse i can still use the heads and intake on myLG5 so either way i'm happy with the purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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