bartonmd Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 OK, since I got this car ('91 Lumina Euro 3.1L, ~140k miles) a year and a half ago, It's been going through coolant at a pretty steady rate of about 2 cups a month... I figured, hell, it's the LIM gasket, so I did that a month or so ago... So, things I know: 1. Coolant is leaving cooling system at about 2 cups a month 2. Coolant is not going anywhere on the ground, and nothing's wet 3. Coolant is getting in the oil (oil analysis) 4. Not Lower Intake Manifold gasket 5. No perceptable coolant smell from exhaust 6. No bubbling cooling system 7. No oil in coolant The only thing I can think of at this point would be the possibility of water leaking around one the head bolts down into the pan... I am 99% sure the heads haven't been off the thing, but I'm wondering if maybe it didn't get enough RTV put on a head bolt at the factory or something, because I know those bolts are in water in the head, and I believe the back side of the threaded holes inthe block just kindof hang out above the oil pan... I thought head gasket first... like from a coolant passage to an oil drain passage, but I've always seen gaskets; once they start to go, they just keep losing coolant at a larger and larger rate, until you're REALLY losing coolant quick, but this has been at the same rate for a year and a half... Anybody seen anything like this?? Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cutlass Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 I'm guessing it's the headgasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Could be a small leak on the waterpump, spraying it up on the engine bay which would then evaporate (no dripping). This was the case with my 95 except the leak was worse it was actually spraying it up at you with the engine running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cutlass Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Could be a small leak on the waterpump, spraying it up on the engine bay which would then evaporate (no dripping). This was the case with my 95 except the leak was worse it was actually spraying it up at you with the engine running. That wouldn't explain the coolant in the oil though... would it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Oh.. I thought he said NO coolant in oil.. opps! My guess would be headgaskets as well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 have you thought of using K&W or bars block sealer? (both these require flushing the cooling system of all antifreeze http://www.crcindustries.com/crcweb (search blcok seal) http://www.barsproducts.com/product.cfm?id=41 (you may expect to have to change the water pump after it's use) or just droping in some bars stop leak to see if it makes a difference without needing a full flush http://www.barsproducts.com/product.cfm?id=17 and does anyone have any reviews of their use in our aluminum head steel block cars? more info/how to: http://www.allpar.com/fix/cracks.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCRagtopguy Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 I work for CRC, we make K&W Block Seal and I can recommend it for this job absolutely. It works great as long as you do a good flush of the cooling system-it is NOT soluble with Anti-freeze. I have done several of my own cars and to this day they are leak-free. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to call our Technical Support line, you can find the number on our website that CrazyK was nice enough to give the link to above. Beats the hell out of pulling the heads, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted December 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 ... but is this leaking enough to let this stuff get into the hole?? I mean, I thought that stuff had to have a decent amount of flow through a hole to get enough crap in it to seal it up?? Also, DOHC, you've done this on an iron block/aluminum head car? Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Sounds like head gasket. I had a small leak I was able to plug with Aluma-seal (best leak stopper I've ever used). Then 5yrs later, it finally blew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Could be a small leak on the waterpump, spraying it up on the engine bay which would then evaporate (no dripping). This was the case with my 95 except the leak was worse it was actually spraying it up at you with the engine running. that was going to be my suggestion. It's my next thing on my to do list for the cutty! Look at the water pump for possible wetness, check the radiator hose near the acc. driver belt. What my water pump is doing is spraying some coolant on to the belt, which is then throwing it against the one side of the radiator hose. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3pt1lumina Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 coolant in the oil = 9 out of 10 times a bad headgasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted December 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 coolant in the oil = 9 out of 10 times a bad headgasket. I agree, but I've usually not known a bad head gasket to leak very slowly for a very long time... Usually, they just GO... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3pt1lumina Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 coolant in the oil = 9 out of 10 times a bad headgasket. I agree, but I've usually not known a bad head gasket to leak very slowly for a very long time... Usually, they just GO... Mike yes you are right. It did happen to me though with our 84 Impala when the headgasket leaked for a year almost. (12k) then the bitch overheated... then yeah I knew exactly what happened then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 I agree, but I've usually not known a bad head gasket to leak very slowly for a very long time... Usually, they just GO... The only experience I've had with a bad headgasket, leaked for over 5yrs before it finally went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted December 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 I agree, but I've usually not known a bad head gasket to leak very slowly for a very long time... Usually, they just GO... The only experience I've had with a bad headgasket, leaked for over 5yrs before it finally went. Fair enough... The 4 that I've seen, only 2 of which were NOT to the combustion chamber, were a "leak for a week or so, then JUST GO" type... THis may just be different because it's between a water and oil return line... Who knows... I have tomorrow and Friday off, so I'm going to do the deal with the permanent stuff with the umteen flushes then... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Yeah, mine were nowhere near a combustion chamber. It was an external leak. The gasket had a small crack on it that leaked slowly. It did that for awhile, then I added some Prestone Stop Leak that slowed it down, but it still leaked. 2yrs later I used Aluma-Seal and that completely fixed it. Then one day I went to the DMV to pay for a license renewal, and when I came out, there was a big green puddle under the car. I started it up, and it squirted a steady stream of coolant out of the hole that had been slowly leaking. Pic That was the first and only time I've ever had to have my '89 towed. Upon tearing it down, I discovered the other head gasket (which was not leaking) wasn't far behind. I also discovered the Prestone Stop Leak had left a lot of nasty gunk behind. Considering I also used Prestone coolant, changed annually, before the headgasket blew, that was the last time I used any Prestone product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3pt1lumina Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 Really!? The Prestone left gunk behind?? hmm..... there's some words of wisdom for me for future referance. Thanks. I wonder if that's what they used in my Malibu when they replaced the LIM and a year later, (20k) it had gunk floating in the system. So what's a good coolant to use? I put Texaco in my car... but I change it once a year because I do so many miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Yeah, the Prestone Stop-Leak was clay based or something weird like that. It left a lot of hard clay-like chunks in the cooling system. I use Wal-mart SuperTech green coolant in cars that take green, and Havoline Dex-cool in cars that take Dex. Never had a problem with either in 6yrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 I also discovered the Prestone Stop Leak had left a lot of nasty gunk behind. Considering I also used Prestone coolant, changed annually, before the headgasket blew, that was the last time I used any Prestone product. I prefer the use of prestone's long life green antifreeze, which I mix with distilled water mayself. But I thing everyone here is confusing things a bit. Stop leak is supposed to leave gunk floating in the system. That is how it stops a leak, by clogging it. Let me say... I only buy their antifreeze and flush. thats what prestone is an expert at. For block sealers/radiator sealers, I would use K&W blockseal (pre-flush required, and a post flush to follow as well) or Gunk brand stop leak (they have types compatable with and without antifreeze) THese are quality products. I know that K&W gave my dad's 75 buick electra a ten year lease on life. He bought it in 84 and discovered it had a blown headgasket. I learned it survived until about 94, as I wound up talking to a guy who's friend owned it when I was a senior in High school. I also tried to locate it, btw, as the junkyard it went to doesn't ever seem to get rid of cars. But I only found three other cars that my parents used to own of which we didn't know their fate. lol Now, If i had found it.... I would have fixed it, as I know it would not have been touched. Back to topic-> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCRagtopguy Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 K&W Block Seal will work on any type of head/block metal configuration. I sense some confusion here that maybe I can clear up. There are two different types of A/F sealers. One temporary (like the Prestone stuff) that you would add directly to the A/F, and a permanent one (K&W Block Seal). The temporary stuff does have clay, wood chips, cornmeal and shit like that in it, but will only last for a temporary period. It will also plug up your heater core and/or radiator. Stay away from it unless absolute emergency. K&W Block Seal forms a permanent semi-metallic bond using sodium silicates and metal particles. The silicates are commonly known as liquid glass. The way it works is the active sealing agents are drawn thru the crack or fissure until they seal it up. Then after the leak is repaired and the product is drained out it must be left to cure without A/F or water for a minimum of 12 hours (24 is best). This actually forms a cold weld or bond that permanently seals it up. The only thing is that if it's a head gasket and the tear gets bigger the leak will re-appear. But you can seal it again. We do actual testing here at the factory and guarantee the product will work if directions are followed properly or your money will be refunded. The most important thing to remember is that K&W is NOT COMPATIBLE WITH ANY KIND OF GLYCOL BASED ANTI FREEZE. The product must be allowed to cure completely, then it's ok. Prior to treatment, the block must be flushed until the water runs clear from the cooling system. It's good stuff, we've gotten numerous phone calls from happy customers that saved hundreds of dollars in repair bills. Hope this helps brighten the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadetz26 Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 It could be the timing cover gasket... thats what happened to my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonyman87 Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Sounds like head gasket. I had a small leak I was able to plug with Aluma-seal (best leak stopper I've ever used). Then 5yrs later, it finally blew. im trying this right now the smell of coolent went away.. aswell as all the coolent in the motor! fuck. gotta fill it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Sounds like head gasket. I had a small leak I was able to plug with Aluma-seal (best leak stopper I've ever used). Then 5yrs later, it finally blew. im trying this right now the smell of coolent went away.. aswell as all the coolent in the motor! fuck. gotta fill it again. Yeah, it's good stuff, way better than that clay-based Prestone Stop Leak. Just that small tiny cannister of the stuff (about the size of a 35mm film container) was more effective than 1/2qt of Prestone. I've never tried that K&W Block Seal, but it sounds worth trying if I ever have a small headgasket leak. What I would really like, is something that seals lower intake manifolds!!! My truck has an LIM leak and I'm really not in the mood to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Sounds like head gasket. I had a small leak I was able to plug with Aluma-seal (best leak stopper I've ever used). Then 5yrs later, it finally blew. im trying this right now the smell of coolent went away.. aswell as all the coolent in the motor! fuck. gotta fill it again. Yeah, it's good stuff, way better than that clay-based Prestone Stop Leak. Just that small tiny cannister of the stuff (about the size of a 35mm film container) was more effective than 1/2qt of Prestone. I've never tried that K&W Block Seal, but it sounds worth trying if I ever have a small headgasket leak. What I would really like, is something that seals lower intake manifolds!!! My truck has an LIM leak and I'm really not in the mood to fix it. i think anyone on this forum with a 60* v6 would like that too Shawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted January 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Well, keeping fingers crossed, it seems to be working! I did it a month or so ago and it doesn't seem to be leaking!! BTW, Shawn, unless a LIM leak is pretty bad, I immagine this stuff would work... It seems that it would work anywhere that the cooling system is at a higher pressure than where the other side of the leak is... In hind sight, I probably should have done this to begin with because my leak wasn't very bad in comparison to others' Thanks for the help guys! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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