RobertISaar Posted September 22, 2010 Report Share Posted September 22, 2010 i imagine they are the same p/n... rockauto would likely confirm this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to eaton Posted September 22, 2010 Report Share Posted September 22, 2010 not that this helps but l67/ 3100 Coils are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted September 23, 2010 Report Share Posted September 23, 2010 which cylinder plug wire was the one you had an issue with? I have a bunch of spare partial wire sets going and because I am going with ac delco 7mm wires again, I will be having spare taylor spiropro 8mm silicone wires to give away. I am very curious if this is all your problem is, just one wire giving you problems. I have been going through all this exact same shit with my car recently after re reading this thread AND fixing my car finally! my opinion is wire or plug. I will send you the wire if I have it. I say remove and check each plug again for broken ceramic. then torque them to 15 ft lbs. make sure the engine is cool when doing it. and get tunerpro 5 hooked up on there. you will love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted September 23, 2010 Report Share Posted September 23, 2010 taylor spiropro 8mm silicone wires IMO, best money i ever spent on anything GM DIS related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted September 23, 2010 Report Share Posted September 23, 2010 I know but they are the cheapest ones taylor makes. I had a couple crimps fail and come apart when I pulled the wire off last time. seems like the delco ones pull off easier and I like the grip more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted September 23, 2010 Report Share Posted September 23, 2010 coil packs and icm are the same between 2.8, 3.1, 3.4, 3100, 3400........ such that If I need an ICM or coils for something I grab one off the newest 3x00 in the j/y as they don;t get heat soaked like the others do from being on top of the exhaust manifold.... and the coils on the 3800 L27 are the same... almost. one single coil has reversed markings????? It happened to be the one the van needed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drummer Posted September 23, 2010 Report Share Posted September 23, 2010 Have you ever tried cleaning the IAC? My car was doing the same thing until I clean the IAC valve, and it helped out a lot although still does it from time to time but i think i just need a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted September 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2010 the ports or the valve? I think I have but its worth another go around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted October 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2010 Stuck a flag in this too early... Cleaned the IAC. Had to adjust idle after that since it was idling at im guessing 2500 rpms. I did the idle relearn and my car purred for a little bit, but then it kinda started acting like its old self. It would be shakey at idle and just not run very well when the car was idling. I got a code today on the way home from work. It was about 60 something degrees, humid and my car had been on for like 2 or 3 minutes at this point. I was cruising down a hill going about 40 when I got the SES light. I got home and pulled it: 45: Oxygen sensor voltage was over 0.7 volts for 50 seconds in closed loop operation with a throttle angle between 3% and 45%. What I/the car was doing is as the code describes. So where should this point me. Mind you this is a brand new (4,000 mile old) Denso Oxygen sensor. I dont really think the 25,000 mile old Bosch one was bad at this point, but better to be safe than sorry for $14. Besides new parts are fun sometimes. Should I check the wiring for the Oxygen Sensor or is this indicative of another problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted October 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2010 Typical causes for this code include: 1) O2 sensor defective or contaminated (if incorrect RTV sealant or too much RTV is used, this may happen) 2) Leaking fuel injectors 3) Fuel pressure too high 4) EMI interference from poor plug wires - i noticed some knicks on the spark plug wires from being poorly routed and rubbing on the fan support. not what i would call deep though 5) Evaporative Emission system defect 6) TPS and/or EGR problem 7) MAF sensor reading higher airflow than is actually present Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted October 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2010 Checked the evap canister and pulled off one of the lines. It was free of liquid fuel but the hardlines back to the engine bay are the most corroded things on my car. Looks like it came off the titanic. Do these things fail often? Also pulled the line off the FPR and it was dry but pulled a vacuum on it wif my mouf and it had a fuel taste. No fuel though. I imagine the FPR is still good. I'm not sure the little damage i found on the spark plug wires as noted in my last post would make a difference, would they? They are 3 years and 25,000 miles old. The last time I had the spark plugs out (3 months ago hunting down what I think is the same issue) the color was tan to white and they were all in fantastic condition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted October 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2010 Any suggestions on where to go from here? My multimeter is broken at the moment, No fuel pressure gauge. I think I might get a new set of wires and see how that goes. over $20 though is a little rough to be throwing parts at it. Garrett Powered, I'll try to check which wires are knicked and maybe take you up on the offer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted October 26, 2010 Report Share Posted October 26, 2010 BUY NEW MULIMETER... OHM check injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted October 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2010 More info: Ive been getting 20.5-23.5 mpgs. Granted I make like 1-2 short WOT or near WOT runs per day but my commute is 16 miles each was with 3-5 stops at stop signs/traffic lights with an average speed of like 40 mph. These are the conditions where I get the worst mileage. I get the best mileage on the highway and I'm going like 80 mph for long stretches really ringing out the LH0 since I have the 3 speed. Sometimes even with the A/C on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted October 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2010 is there a way to check the resistance of the injectors not at the injectors themselves? Like downstream in the wiring? I'm not too keen on replacing my 3 month old gaskets and I disliked the job of taking the plenum off last time. Those clips on the connectors are a bear too. Otherwise thats an expensive test, with the cost of gaskets and a multimeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted October 26, 2010 Report Share Posted October 26, 2010 Injector harness? Should come out near the plenum on the passenger side. They're 3 wire plugs I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted October 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Injector harness? Should come out near the plenum on the passenger side. They're 3 wire plugs I think. Has anyone done this? Tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 NOT ON A 3.1! The gaskets on the upper plenum are reusable, including the originals if not damaged(or just repaired like I've done:p). You can actually perform an injector test on a 3100 at the pigtail by comparison, but the 3.1 injectors are batched and must be read individually at the injector as you cannot get a true reading any other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted October 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Ok so youre saying that I am in good shape to do an injector test with my 3 month old gaskets. Still dont like taking it off but maybe i can paint it or something. I reused my old ones and they leaked, but they were the original ones with like 80,000 miles on them when i took them off. I still dont like that job and its raining out now and probably will be for the next few days. Any tips on getting those metal clips off the injectors and replacing them? Those are a total pain in the balls. Will a leaky injector necessarily show up bad when you ohm it out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted October 27, 2010 Report Share Posted October 27, 2010 Ok so youre saying that I am in good shape to do an injector test with my 3 month old gaskets. Still dont like taking it off but maybe i can paint it or something. I reused my old ones and they leaked, but they were the original ones with like 80,000 miles on them when i took them off. I still dont like that job and its raining out now and probably will be for the next few days. Any tips on getting those metal clips off the injectors and replacing them? Those are a total pain in the balls. Will a leaky injector necessarily show up bad when you ohm it out? no it will not, but you can find injectors that are out of spec electrically. LEAK DOWN TEST: get a fuel gauge (you can rent for $150 deposit from AZ) hook it up and manually trigger the pump with the red test wire. observe if/when pressure drops and how fast. the best way to verify injectors don't leak it is you do the newspaper under the rail test: with the fuel rail hooked to the fuel lines but not mounted to the intake with the injectors attached to the fuel rail lay them in the valley with newspaper under the complete assembly. use the red test wire to build up pressure. if you have a leaker it will dribble and be visible on the paper. ALSO if you do mess with your injectors you should replace your o-rings. Brown silicone ones are available at advance auto and the info on them is in the parts thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Any suggestions on where to go from here? My multimeter is broken at the moment, No fuel pressure gauge. I think I might get a new set of wires and see how that goes. over $20 though is a little rough to be throwing parts at it. Garrett Powered, I'll try to check which wires are knicked and maybe take you up on the offer I got those wires sitting here. just PM me when you need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted November 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2010 Checked the fuel pressure with the engine off...would sit at 42 psi all day long, so i think a leaking injector is ruled out. Got another code 45, rich condition. This happened saturday night, it was in the 40s out and i was in traffic going up a hill. The car was on for a while at this point, plenty hot. then pretty much idled down the other side of the hill. I cant remember exactly when the SES light came on, but i think it was in the midst of the uphill traffic. Heres the bottom line: -Poor running at low engine speeds -Rips as hard as a 3.1 with a 3 speed can rip when you get on it, i think -Fuel economy 20-23 mpg no matter the conditions. Best mileage gotten on the highway doing like 75 to 80, even with the AC on (remember this is the 3 speed) Things that I checked/replaced: -Pretty good compression (Most cylinders around 150 psi) -New denso O2 sensor -Coolant temperature sensor is good -Intake air sensor is good -Fuel pressure regulator is good -Absolutely no vacuum leaks -Spark plugs are in great shape -Evap system appears to be working pretty well -Cleaned the IAC then did a relearn since it was idling at like 2000-2500 rpms at that point Current thoughts: -My motor mount is beyond screwed...Could this cause false knock? If so, what kind of conditions would one see with false knock -Friday I will be taking the intake manifold off and checking the impedance of the injectors -Could the EGR tube be clogged? A faulty egr does what to a car? -Finally...the ignition system. The reason i am leaning away from this is the poor mileage under all conditions and I feel like it would hamper performance all around and honestly it runs pretty good up top -Side note. I think my booster is going bad (or im just going crazy). Might this cause my car to run so crappy? When I say absolutely no vacuum leaks, i redid dubious gaskets, checked over all the tubes, used propane and carb cleaner in the engine bay and even hooked the manifold up to a vacuum gauge and all was well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted November 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 UH WAT? Got a steady SES light going to work today for about 20 minutes.... CODE 44: Lean Exhaust. WTF MATE? Beginning to think ECM or wiring is suspect. I replaced this ECM with a JY one, but as I understand it, the O2 sensor generates more voltage when the exhaust is rich and less when the exhaust is lean. So I cant think of a borked wiring situation where the ECM would see higher voltage than the exhaust warrants. Could probably still be injectors. at this point. What is different now from before is that when the car first stars up, it runs all kinds of effed up for a little bit. seems like multiple lost cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 I would not rule out a faulty EGR. Back years ago on my '90 Cutlass the EGR was stuck partially open, giving me a horrible high idle, stalling, rough low-speed driving, etc. Those EGR's cost next to nothing used (millions out there) may be worth a shot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted November 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Well under the advise of my friend, ended up taking the egr off and cleaning it. No easy task. I'll be better at it next time. I went out and took a drive and got the EGR code. Right about now i realize that i didnt plug it back in. Did run pretty well. We'll see when I plug it back in and drive to work tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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