nebojsa_o Posted February 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Well, I'll see if I can borrow buddies timing light first, if he can't find it, then I'll go and buy one. When/if I find out what I'll need to buy, I'll let you know Jeff, and maybe get it a bit cheaper that way. Then whatever we saved with your discount, goes toward beer! Jay, thanks for the offer, but if I actually do need a coil, I'll probably buy it this weekend or Monday at the latest, to get the car going ASAP. Off topic question: 9 coils? really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Well, I'll see if I can borrow buddies timing light first, if he can't find it, then I'll go and buy one. When/if I find out what I'll need to buy, I'll let you know Jeff, and maybe get it a bit cheaper that way. Then whatever we saved with your discount, goes toward beer! Jay, thanks for the offer, but if I actually do need a coil, I'll probably buy it this weekend or Monday at the latest, to get the car going ASAP. Off topic question: 9 coils? really? yes I do believe so! Ill have to go out and count but I believe it to be close! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 How about the old screwdriver method of checking for spark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 How about the old screwdriver method of checking for spark? yeah!!!!!! one wire at a time, lay it on the manifold. if you have an ols good wire, unplug each wire at the coils and check all six points. and shut the engine off while moving those wires. btw... my 91 international is still Nebojsa O'd I'm pulling the engine to change the crank sensor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 How about the old screwdriver method of checking for spark? yeah!!!!!! one wire at a time, lay it on the manifold. if you have an ols good wire, unplug each wire at the coils and check all six points. and shut the engine off while moving those wires. btw... my 91 international is still Nebojsa O'd I'm pulling the engine to change the crank sensor Oh come on Ken, just grab it, and pull it straight out. Did you try the hot drywall screw yet? Sorry I had to... I knew mine was fucked when all of the advice I was given, wasn't working out... Good luck with yours. We'll see what happens once I start testing stuff. I got some plans for tonight, so Cutlass will wait until tomorrow morning. But then when I wake up, if all goes as planned, I should be out there for a while. I'll post what I find out tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 How about the old screwdriver method of checking for spark? yeah!!!!!! one wire at a time, lay it on the manifold. if you have an ols good wire, unplug each wire at the coils and check all six points. and shut the engine off while moving those wires. btw... my 91 international is still Nebojsa O'd I'm pulling the engine to change the crank sensor Oh come on Ken, just grab it, and pull it straight out. Did you try the hot drywall screw yet? Come on Ken, muscle that shit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 Ok, I used one of those spark plug tester things for the front 3 plugs, and they all have spark. The back ones aren't easily accessible, and I don't have time for those today. Question about coilpacks... One of the coil packs controls plugs 1 and 4. When a coil pack dies would both of those plugs lose spark, or can the coilpack send spark to the front one (4), but not the back one (1)? Becuase all three of the front ones have spark, and if the coil pack can't half die, that means the back ones have spark too... I don't really have time to get at it today anymore, but the plan is tomorrow morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 It is possible to have spark on 1 but not on 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderw31 Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 It is possible to have spark on 1 but not on 4 Really? How does that work? Ok, I used one of those spark plug tester things for the front 3 plugs, and they all have spark. Maybe a plug wire fell off one of the rear plugs or got burned through by one of the manifolds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 That's what I'm looking into tomorrow. I'll take apart the coils, and ICM, and get the ICM tested. While that's apart, I'll rotate the engine forward a little, and check the back three plug wires. Could one bad wire make the car run like total ass though? Two, I can understand, but my brothers '90 3.1L had one spark plug wire fall off, and we couldn't even tell a difference in the way the car ran. There was a bit more power when we hooked it back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderw31 Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 Could one bad wire make the car run like total ass though? Two, I can understand, but my brothers '90 3.1L had one spark plug wire fall off, and we couldn't even tell a difference in the way the car ran. There was a bit more power when we hooked it back up. It could. I had an '89 6000 with the 2.8, and I managed to get one bad plug while doing a tuneup. It burned through the boot of the wire, and it would miss, splutter, buck under throttle, and randomly stall out coming to a stop. Took me forever to find it too, as the plugs and wires were new. That being said, yours sounds more like more than one cylinder is misfiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 btw... my 91 international is still Nebojsa O'd I'm pulling the engine to change the crank sensor Oh come on Ken, just grab it, and pull it straight out. Did you try the hot drywall screw yet? Come on Ken, muscle that shit!! I can feel it, it keeps flaking apart. I can even move it 1/4 of an inch in and out!!! but all the is left feels like a a piece of pencil lead floating in middle of the shaft. besides... I figure pulling the engine will be faster then fucking with it. nebo, got an old spark plug wire? use it to check the rear 3, or even just use a front wire and disconnect the rears one at a time at the point of the coil only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 Could one bad wire make the car run like total ass though? Two, I can understand, but my brothers '90 3.1L had one spark plug wire fall off, and we couldn't even tell a difference in the way the car ran. There was a bit more power when we hooked it back up. It could. I had an '89 6000 with the 2.8, and I managed to get one bad plug while doing a tuneup. It burned through the boot of the wire, and it would miss, splutter, buck under throttle, and randomly stall out coming to a stop. Took me forever to find it too, as the plugs and wires were new. That being said, yours sounds more like more than one cylinder is misfiring. I had the same problem on my 94 cutlass 31. one plug wire went bad and it took forever to find it. same symptoms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 Fucking shit! The plans for tonight didn't work out, so I'm gonna stay at home. Wasted a few hours I could have been working on the Cutlass... I guess I'll just go to sleep earlier than planned, and wake up a little earlier and get started... You guys didn't have a SES light or at least blinking, to tell you it's misfiring? I don't... And yes, I do have the old Cutlass wires. I knew I kept them for a reason. Actually I gave them to Jeff a little while ago, so he can test out what's going on with his Lumina, but the weather prevented him from doing that, so he brought them back to me last night. Very nice of him, wrestling a 3400 lbs Lumina on snow/ice/slush with no power steering. His arms got bigger. I'm testing fuel pressure tomorrow, probably the back plug wires while I'm there, taking the ICM in for testing, and who knows what else. Whatever comes to mind while I'm there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderw31 Posted February 23, 2008 Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 You guys didn't have a SES light or at least blinking, to tell you it's misfiring? I don't... I'm testing fuel pressure tomorrow, probably the back plug wires while I'm there, taking the ICM in for testing, and who knows what else. Whatever comes to mind while I'm there... Nope, no SES, but then it was OBD1. It did however screw up the BLMs in the ECM though... after changing the bad plug and wire, the thing ran TERRIBLE for about a minute or so. It ran insanely rich, coldn't hold an Idle, smoked and almost stalled several times. At first I was worried, but then I realized the ECM was just learning how to properly run the engine again . I mention that because it showed just how much a simple thing like that can change how the ECM tries to run the motor... it can make a HUGE difference in how the car actually runs. Getting everything possible checked out is a good thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2008 UPDATE: Ok.. Due to all sorts of stupid complications this morning I haven't had a chance to do much yet, but I did get the Maxima out of the garage, and put the Cutlass in. While moving the Cutlass around, I noticed the brake pedal feels very wierd. Almost like no power brakes, kind of soft, but then feels like hitting a brick. Are there any vaccuum lines around the brake booster that could cause the idling problem I'm having? And the brake fluid seems just a touch lower than normal... Any ideas? Is this a possibility, or a unrelated problem, that occured at the same time? EDIT: I went out there again, and checked that big hose that goes from the booster to the intake, and it seems to be in one piece, no cracks or anything. We unplugged it from the booster, and my brother plugged it off, and the car idles the same, and if he unplugged it, the car died. The little plastic thing on the booster, where that hose attaches, feels very loose, and moves around quite a bit, is that normal? Is there something else booster related that could be causing my terrible idle? It seems to big to be a coincidence... I tried pumping the brake pedal, and holding it in, and starting the car, but the brake pedal doesn't go any lower. It's just stiff as a cock on viagra now... Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 UPDATE: OK, so I checked all the plugs for spark, and all is well there. I checked the fuel pressure, and had 43 psi, which is good. Turned it on, and the pressure dropped by 6, which is also good according to the books... I tried unplugging random sensors, and the car reacted to most of them, but it's really hard to tell since it idles like shit... The only one it didn't react to that I could notice was the 4 wire plug on the throttle body, right above the 3 wire TPS... Maybe it did, but it must have been very minor. The brake thing I talked about in the previous post is still wierd. You can pump up the brake, until it gets stiff, and when you start the car it's still stiff. So the brake booster is doing something it's not supposed to be doing... But once I rev the engine to about 1500-2000 RPMs the brake pedal goes down, just like it always used to, and is supposed to. Then we checked the fuel pressure, which turned out good, and then we were going to check the pressure while running, and when I turned on the car, it was FIXED running smooth, and the pressure checked out OK. Me and my brother were both like WTF?!?!! Took the fuel pressure gage off, and tried it again, and it was working just fine. The brake was working fine too... I turned it off, and back on a bunch of times, and it's fine every time. Then I tried pumping the brake pedal with the car idling, and as I'm pressing it very quickly, the car starts to surge a bit, and the RPMs drop a touch, like it's going to die, but it never did. What do you guys have to say now? I'm kind of happy, and still kind of pissed/worried, because if it fixed itself, maybe it's not really fixed, and will do the same next week... Please give me more ideas, possibilites, whatever you can think of. Thanks for the help guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89GP_SE Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 When was the last time you changed your fuel filter there nebby LOL. I have been reading the last three pages (why is it that everytime your car dies there is 3 pages of posts LOL.. oh wait the CPS was a 7 page thing.. anyways) Could be a fouled plug/flooded and after you let it sit in the garage for a day or so it wasnt as flooded LOL.. i know doesnt make any sense even to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 It's a w-body, it doesn't have to make sense. Well I was thinking the fuel fliter, but I didn't change it now, and the car fixed itself. But the brake pedal bogging it down still tells me something is wrong. Sure as shit idles as good as it ever did though... The 3 page thing is nothing I can control, and 3 pages seems about right. The CPS was 7 pages because it came straight from hell, and I was very close to blowing my brains out. If I have time to do it, I'd like to replace the fuel fliter tomorrow, but I'm not sure how that's gonna work out. I'm still looking for opinions of what's possibly happening here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 The big vacuum hose to the booster has a one way check valve in it. Pull that valve out (the one you said seems loose in there) and make sure air can only go one way through it - and make sure it is making a tight seal around the booster. That check valve is there to hold the maximum amount of vacuum the engine produces (normally on deacceleration) for maximum braking. Could be a vacuum related issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 exactly what he said. I sometimes lube them with something that is rubber friendly, like armourall or tireshine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 I'll try and check that tomorrow, Manic told me something similar too, so we'll see. How does that come out of there, would it just pull out or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 i have to say i wouldnt think it would be the fuel filter because there would not be steady pressure at the rail. If your running perfect pressure it usually isnt fuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 I'll try and check that tomorrow, Manic told me something similar too, so we'll see. How does that come out of there, would it just pull out or what? yeap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Well I pulled that sone of a bitch out today, it was a pain, but it came out. I checked it, and it only went one way, not both. Car is still fine today, but when I'm idling in P, and start pumping the brake very fast, I can hear the idle change a bit, like it might be strugling in some way. But for regular driving it's perfectly fine. While I was at the parts store, I asked one of the guys what he thinks, and he said I could try testing the brake booster by hooking up a gage of some sort to it, and filling it with air, and to see if it holds. I wasn't sure if he knew what he was talking about, so I figured I'd ask here. Would that be a no-no, or is that a somewhat normal procedure? So, I'll keep driving it until I notice something else, or if it starts getting worse, then I can try something again. It pretty much fixed itself, so I don't know what to say... I was thinking, maybe replacing a few of those hoses might do something, but I think it might be a internal brake booster problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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