nebojsa_o Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Hey all... So my mom had my car again today, and it was fine in the morning she said. She went to a job interview, and then to Walmart. When she got out of Walmart and started it, she said it cranked longer than usual, and then started, but idled rough, like it wasn't running on all six cylinders (she knows what that feel like from previous situation). Then it stalled on her, and she started it again, and it ran rough, just about to stall, and she gave it a little gas, and it stayed running, just rough. She got home, and parked it until I came from work. I went outside, and sure as shit, it's doing what she told me. Has trouble starting, sometimes needs a bit of gas to actually start. Once it starts it runs pretty rough. No CEL, but I pulled codes anyways, and it there is nothing stored in the memory... I figured coils or plugs/wires, but there is no code of any kind, nor is the light flashing. The exhaust *might* smell a touch like rotten eggs, but no one other than me can smell it. Would a bad cat throw a code? It revs up fine from what I can tell to the rev limiter at 3800-4000 RPMS... What should I be looking for here? The fuel pump sounds normal, like always before. Didn't try driving it yet, so I'm not sure if it runs weaker or not, but it sure as shit doesn't idle right. Any input is very appreciated. I'm uploading a video of it running, but its hard to tell kind of, it's just loud, still, might help someone in some way... http://media.putfile.com/Cutlass-running-rough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns87 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Its a little hard to hear in the video. Is the higher pitched noise the actual idle? I would check the fuel pressure. This is what my MPFI sounded like when the fuel pump was dead. See if you see any similarities. Ignore what I say about white smoke. Having had coil packs and fuel pumps both die on me, I can tell the difference between a fuel problem and a spark problem. To me, ignition problems are more bouncy feeling. I can feel the engine being rough. A fuel problem is more of a stutter. When I press the gas there is hesitation, or intermittent cutting out. Not as rough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 There is definitly no hesitation when I hit the pedal, but it sure is a rough idle, easy to feel inside, and hear, and noticable while looking at the engine, shaking more than normal, and idling like crap. Forgot to mention, I washed the car about 3 days ago, or 4, I doubt somethings reacting now, but I guess it's possible. Let me know what you think... Also, when it starts and is running rought, the RPMS go pretty low down, and go up, then back down, just strugling to stay running. EDIT: Another thing is the way the exhaust sounds, and smoke comes out in small clouds, not normal. I'm guessing because it's idling crappy, but I don't know if maybe a restriction of some sort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Does the exhaust smell like gas? Could just be a bad plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Not exactly like gas, but there seems to be a possible strange smell to it. I was thinking it smells kind of "sour" but it's really hard to tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Coils/ICM or wires, or plugs. I tell you no lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 No codes for any of those? I find that really strange... I was searching stuff on the forum, and found a post by someone that a dying crank sensor would cause a bad idle with no codes. Not sure if that's true or not, but I did just replace the crank position sensor a little while ago... Possibly connected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Coils/ICM or wires, or plugs. I tell you no lies. Those will create no SES light. So take a look at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Coils/ICM or wires, or plugs. I tell you no lies. Those will create no SES light. So take a look at them. Wow, I'm really shocked by that, OBD II doesn't have a light for any of those? The plugs have less than 20,000kms on them. I changed all six of them with NGK Iridiums... The ICM was in for testing when my CPS died (a couple months ago), and it passed all the tests, but I suppose it could have died just now... The plug wires are as new as the plugs are, but I could test them too. Coil packs are original as far as I can tell, so we'll see... My old mans '01 Silthoutte had a flashing CEL when he had a bad plug wire, so I assumed it would be doing that... And I know there is a code in the book for it, so I assumed it would defenitly flash or something if it was messed up. At least I have something to test out tomorrow if I have time, and am in the mood. Any more suggestions are more than welcome. Thanks for all the help so far guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Misfires should make the SES light blink. It may not stay on though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 check for spark on all the coils. next... fuel pressure test. then... injector ohm test. iirc the crank and cam sensors are new? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockfangd Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 the check engine light just flashes a misfire but not all the time. i would say start by checking for good spark and go from there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 If you are still working on it Saturday I might be able to give you a hand after work - I know it's a few days away still though. Let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 Camshaft positioning sensor was replaced about a year and a half ago or so, and it wasn't acting even similar to this, it was still driving/idling fine. Crankshaft position sensor is around two months old, or somewhere around there, that's the one that kept breaking off. There is the other one, by the pulley there, but I don't know if that one would make the car run like ass. There was no flashing or blinking or anything of the CEL, so I wasn't sure what's going on with that... How would I go about checking the coils for spark? Is there a write up anywhere? I have the two crapy w-body books, Chilton & Haynes, would it be in there? (Can't access them until tomorrow after work). Jeff said he has a fuel pressure gage that I can borrow if I need it, so I'll probably do that sometime this weekend, or earlier maybe, depending on if I have time/will to test anything out in the next couple of days. Injector ohm test doesn't sound familiar either, but I take it there is info on how to do that somewhere too... I'm guessing I'll be doing all the work on Saturday, since the next couple of days are kind of busy for me, and I don't know if I'll have time. The garage might be available on Saturday, but if not, I'll deal with it on the driveway, it should be only -5 or so... If I need a hand with something, I'll let you know, especially if you know how any of the testing works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderw31 Posted February 21, 2008 Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 How to check for spark: Get a timing light (if you don't have one, see if you can rent/buy one at the local parts store), and hook it up according to its instructions. Usually a timing light has a little clamp that will go over the plug wire; once it is on the wire, pull the trigger on the timing light, and point it at something on the engine. You should see a steady strobe, and that will let you know you have spark. Repeat this test for each plug wire, and note if any do not strobe at all, or if the strobe hiccups or flickers at all. Any cylinders that have act liek that are misfiring or not firing at all. If I had to take a guess, I wouldn't be suprised if one coil pack is having a probem and you are running on four cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 21, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2008 It sure as shit sounds like it. Thanks for the info on the timing light, but I don't have one. If it's not expensive I'll probably buy one, but I have a feeling it's more than I'd like to spend. I'm guessing it might be a coil pack too, but who knows. I checked at the Part Source today, and coil packs are $68 each. I could maybe buy one and swap it around until it starts to work. I have a massive headache at the moment though, so I doubt I'm doing much today. Another idea I had, could be bullshit, but what about the fuel filter? I don't think there would be a code for it, and at idle it might not flow right, but when driving it works good enough ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Maybe. It's cheap and a start. But if it still accelerates and revs fairly decent I would want to rule it out. i'm just printing off directions to your house again, gotta find the guage and I'll be over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 It sure as shit sounds like it. Thanks for the info on the timing light, but I don't have one. If it's not expensive I'll probably buy one, but I have a feeling it's more than I'd like to spend. I'm guessing it might be a coil pack too, but who knows. I checked at the Part Source today, and coil packs are $68 each. I could maybe buy one and swap it around until it starts to work. I have a massive headache at the moment though, so I doubt I'm doing much today. Another idea I had, could be bullshit, but what about the fuel filter? I don't think there would be a code for it, and at idle it might not flow right, but when driving it works good enough ? The coils are 25 bucks a pop at AutoZone or Advance Auto. Wells and GP Sorenson parts respectively which are high quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Well, since there is no Autozone or AdvanceAuto here, I'm kind of out of luck. If I decide to buy, I'll check NAPA too, usually a few bucks cheaper, but nothing special... We're used to getting ripped off around here, so $68 was actually a good deal IMO. Well, Jeff just left, he brought over the fuel pressure guage (thanks again), so I might try that tomorrow, but if not, then on Saturday. I'll post more info on here once I get started, and can start rulling stuff out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ns87 Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Coil pack and you'd know it! The car literally feels like a SLOW 4 cyl car. If you give it too much gas it eventually back fires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderw31 Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=MPE&PartNumber=IC39SB&Description=Ignition+Coil $28 for a coil (but I don't know if it is online only) http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=BK&PartNumber=7002331&Description=Timing+Light Timing light is more, but maybe they will rent one out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebojsa_o Posted February 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 If the timing light is priced somewhere near that, I might just buy it, but I doubt it. Nothing is priced like it is online in this city... Thanks EDIT: I just talked to a friend of mine, and he knows someone who will let me borrow his timing light. If he can find it... That would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Well, since there is no Autozone or AdvanceAuto here, I'm kind of out of luck. If I decide to buy, I'll check NAPA too, usually a few bucks cheaper, but nothing special... We're used to getting ripped off around here, so $68 was actually a good deal IMO. Well, Jeff just left, he brought over the fuel pressure guage (thanks again), so I might try that tomorrow, but if not, then on Saturday. I'll post more info on here once I get started, and can start rulling stuff out. Neb, call NAPA, Sutherland Automotive, WSSL or Acklands Gariner and see what their wholesale price is - I can get you it for that price with my Siast card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Ive got like 9 coil packs here if you need em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Check the Princess Auto flyer - timing light for $49.99....they are having their big sale right now though - might be cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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