pwmin Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 someone needs to just go to a parts store and have them pull a gp and mustang rotor and see if the hub will be large enough and the offset is the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 Also, my car has the 11.25" front rotors. I'm not sure if my pads were designed to be 10.5 or 11.25, but I just thought I'd throw that out there. Consider this: Our front calipers did not change from 1988 to 1999 for 1st and 1.5 gens. In 1996, caliper* size increase from 10.5" to 11.25" So you want pads that were designed to cover a 10.5" rotor to cover a 13" rotor? *-I meant to say rotor size here, not caliper The calipers never changed, the pads never changed. Your (all of our) pads were designed for 10.5" rotors. My impression was that if the caliper is spaced farther out, the mere additional circumference to brake against will make a noticeable gain. Again, without changing the contact size with the rotor (i.e. proper calipers/pads), upsizing the rotors isn't going to actually improve braking capability all that much. The biggest difference will be in cooling. The forces towards the edge of the rotor are obviously not as concentrated as those near the middle, so it should be easier to stop, but I think to really get the most out of this you should go with the proper (Mustang) calipers. I'm not putting this down or anything, I just think the gains will be much more worthwhile if you go that route rather than with stock calipers. Hmm, ok. I'll start this project again if my current drilled rotors ever go bad. For the time being though, it doesn't seem like it would really be that worth it to upgrade to 13" rotors if I have to buy new calipers and new pads as well. I just put in $180 for my new rotors and another $68 for the pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphagtp Posted November 16, 2007 Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 aww, come on !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted November 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2007 aww, come on !! LOL. I would only imagine that my current pads on a larger circumference would yeild much better braking power. I mean it makes perfect sense. Granted you would get even better braking power with bigger pads on a bigger caliper, but you get the idea. I won't give up on this project that easily though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey b Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Although I have no intent on going any larger than they 97 setup, Going to a larger rotor does, indeed, give quite an advantage to braking for 2 reasons. 1. The Lever arm for the system that you are setting up will be longer. Essentially the same amount of friction, using a longer lever arm will give a greater stopping force. 2. You will have a larger area to dissipate the stopping heat. Rather than the pad covering 15% of the rotor it will only cover, say, 10%. This gives more milliseconds between frictional moments for the rotor to cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Mustang calipers with Mustang pads on Mustang rotors are a guarenteed fit. That and Mustang pads are pretty damn beefy and the calipers are big and light.... Seems like a no-brainer How do you know for sure they'll fit on a w-body? Because I have done the research and had the parts in my handws doing measurments and comparison.... On the side note, W-bodies like all FWD have too high unsprung weight. If I had some good scales, I could prove it... But ALL factory cars have higher unsprung weight to help with ride characteristics... Reduce unsprung weight and ride quality is improved as well as handling... However, the W-body is very good in the handling department for what it is, but some minor geometry changes and it would be much better.. Using the stock W-body pad and caliper on a 13" rotor is retarded, but have fun wasting time and money if you really want to do this... You are wasting friction surface, therefore wasting a lot of availavle stopping power. Mustangs are not tanks, F-bodies are... But that is not the post at hand... I have a certified weight slip showing my car is ~3700lbs.... I urge all of you to do this and you will be surpised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted November 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Mustang calipers with Mustang pads on Mustang rotors are a guarenteed fit. That and Mustang pads are pretty damn beefy and the calipers are big and light.... Seems like a no-brainer How do you know for sure they'll fit on a w-body? Because I have done the research and had the parts in my handws doing measurments and comparison.... On the side note, W-bodies like all FWD have too high unsprung weight. If I had some good scales, I could prove it... But ALL factory cars have higher unsprung weight to help with ride characteristics... Reduce unsprung weight and ride quality is improved as well as handling... However, the W-body is very good in the handling department for what it is, but some minor geometry changes and it would be much better.. Using the stock W-body pad and caliper on a 13" rotor is retarded, but have fun wasting time and money if you really want to do this... You are wasting friction surface, therefore wasting a lot of availavle stopping power. Mustangs are not tanks, F-bodies are... But that is not the post at hand... I have a certified weight slip showing my car is ~3700lbs.... I urge all of you to do this and you will be surpised And I can get you a certified weight slip showing my car is under 3300lbs. The 2005 mustang V6 is 3523lbs, and the 2001 mustang V6 runs about 3500. Most w-bodies are well within that range, if not under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Then why the hell is my CS sooo damn heavy But nonetheless, a 3000-3500 car is heavy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 Although I have no intent on going any larger than they 97 setup, Going to a larger rotor does, indeed, give quite an advantage to braking for 2 reasons. 1. The Lever arm for the system that you are setting up will be longer. Essentially the same amount of friction, using a longer lever arm will give a greater stopping force. 2. You will have a larger area to dissipate the stopping heat. Rather than the pad covering 15% of the rotor it will only cover, say, 10%. This gives more milliseconds between frictional moments for the rotor to cool. If we knew the coefficients of friction, clamping force of the caliper and actual weight of the vehicle, we could actaully do the math here lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 When upgrading the calipers would you need to consider upgrading the master cylinder as well? Or would it put out enough volume and fluid pressure to not have to worry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Another note, the Ws master cylinder is crap... A larger one will also net sufficient stopping gains. Also, with the larger brakes, the ABS WILL NOT FUNCTION CORRECTLY, therefor for safety, it needs to be disabled, or even better since GM ABS systems are complete shit, get rid of it and at least run a standard non-ABS master cylinder.. I know a much better master cylinder to run, but at this time that has to stay a secrect for safety issues (I haven't tested it yet ) My previous post answered that... The stock W will be sufficient, but upgrading will make the stopping power even better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Oops, sorry man I COMPLETELY missed your post :blushing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancho Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 so what your saying is that if my brakes are bigger the car will stop faster...... NO WAY... LOL (sorry i had to) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Hahaha, it seems most people look over all my damn posts and I gotta keep repeating myself.... Bout to the point of not posting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancho Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 You shouldnt do that, there are some people that actually read the posts and take the knowlege from them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 I really think this thread should end up a sticky.... Seems to have some decent attention and I know for a fact once I start working again, I will start actually doing the upgrade after the 1st of the year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per0781 Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 But nonetheless, a 3000-3500 car is heavy since when is a 3000 lb car heavy? i can understand for a little econo shitbox with a 4 cyl. but for a full size car, definitely not. most weekend warrior drag cars are in that weight category. and for tanks, newer mustangs are almost 4000 lbs. 4th gen f bodys are around 3500 lbs. gotta love people to pass off opinions as facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted November 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 But nonetheless, a 3000-3500 car is heavy since when is a 3000 lb car heavy? i can understand for a little econo shitbox with a 4 cyl. but for a full size car, definitely not. most weekend warrior drag cars are in that weight category. and for tanks, newer mustangs are almost 4000 lbs. 4th gen f bodys are around 3500 lbs. gotta love people to pass off opinions as facts. x2 GTO's are up around 3800lbs, and the new Corvette C6 weighs in at around 3200 with an aluminum block V8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRONDOG442 Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 F bodys have different bolt pattern its 5x4.75" in lieu of our 5x4.5" ... This probably wont work any way because the hub on the mustang is totally different. Not to piss on everyones parade but why do we need 13" brakes? 99% of our cars (mine included) braking systems exceed the amount of power our engines can put out anyway... Save your money and modify your engine... then you MAY require bigger brakes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangeStang Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 But nonetheless, a 3000-3500 car is heavy since when is a 3000 lb car heavy? i can understand for a little econo shitbox with a 4 cyl. but for a full size car, definitely not. most weekend warrior drag cars are in that weight category. and for tanks, newer mustangs are almost 4000 lbs. 4th gen f bodys are around 3500 lbs. gotta love people to pass off opinions as facts. I think Blackbird21 was talking about the 79-93 Mustangs witch were pretty light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted To Boost Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Anyone want my 89 mustang? sorry had to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Not to piss on everyones parade but why do we need 13" brakes? 99% of our cars (mine included) braking systems exceed the amount of power our engines can put out anyway... Save your money and modify your engine... then you MAY require bigger brakes! Personally, I would consider w-body brakes to be almost dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted November 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Not to piss on everyones parade but why do we need 13" brakes? 99% of our cars (mine included) braking systems exceed the amount of power our engines can put out anyway... Save your money and modify your engine... then you MAY require bigger brakes! Personally, I would consider w-body brakes to be almost dangerous. I wouldn't say that, at least not considering my car's braking power even before the drilled rotors. As long as you have a good (and I mean $40+) set of pads on both the front and rear, you should be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 my car stops fine. I can lock them up on dry pavement if I took out the ABS fuse... Cant complain here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per0781 Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 hawk hps pads and brembo blank rotors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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