mfewtrail Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Yeah, the dealer sticker for a 3.1L said 19 city/29 hwy. The window sticker from my 1993(3.1/4T60-E) has "19/30" on it. The little information blurb below the mileage ratings indicates that the cars the EPA tested ranged anywhere from 16-22mpg in the city and 25-35mpg on the highway. My '93 averages right at 32mpg on the highway currently. Overall average for my typical driving during the week is around 26-27mpg with mostly highway driving and a bit of city driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cutlass Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 the 3t60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 the 3t60 3T40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 36??, either you failed 4th grade math or you coasted downhill the whole time No...and no, since you don't know shit..STFU I don't know shit?? Yeah, go ahead and keep telling yourself that... Whatever makes you feel better about yourself Well....looks like we both had a moment there. Just trying to make a point...don't make an obscene assumption if you don't know the real truth. Sooooooo.....that 36mpg happened more than once. Thanks for playing! Matt my Lumina pulled off 36-37mpg hwy last fall on a few trips..best I got out of this spring was 34mpg..still, I was happy considering I was driving 80mph the whole time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 No offense, but are you out of your freakin mind? No oil change in over 30,000 miles? Good luck keeping that engine for as long as it was meant to be kept. I change my oil at 3,000 miles with Royal Purple ($7 a quart) Fully Synthetic and if I happen to go overdue on my oil once, I change it early the next time just to keep on my 3,000 mile schedule. No oil change in 30,000 miles is one damn stupid thing to do. If you're buying Royal Purple at $7 a quart, and you're changing your oil at 3000 miles, you're flushing money down the drain. I don't change my oil until I hit 5000 or 6000 miles, and I use cheap dino oil. At 3000 miles, I'd wager Royal Purple is barely broken in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitzel Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 No offense, but are you out of your freakin mind? No oil change in over 30,000 miles? Good luck keeping that engine for as long as it was meant to be kept. I change my oil at 3,000 miles with Royal Purple ($7 a quart) Fully Synthetic and if I happen to go overdue on my oil once, I change it early the next time just to keep on my 3,000 mile schedule. No oil change in 30,000 miles is one damn stupid thing to do. No, and I intend to run to 60k miles before I do an oil change. I will send in for a used oil analysis to verify the regime works. I have used a boroscope to inspect under the valve covers and in the cylinders, and everything is nice and shiny and clean, no sludge. I use $3.50/quart full-synthetic Esso/ExxonMobil 0W-30 oil (basically its Mobil-1, but without the expensive faggy advertising). Just to freak you out a bit more....the last time the oil was changed was in January of 2004 . And at 5 quarts a change, I've already saved $350. And considering my stock portfolio doubles every 3 years, thats like closer to $700, which is half-way towards buying a replacement car, used. Lots of studies out there too, that brand new oil actually causes more wear than properly filtered used oil. As long as the oil isn't sludging, I think I'll continue to take my chances . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 No offense, but are you out of your freakin mind? No oil change in over 30,000 miles? Good luck keeping that engine for as long as it was meant to be kept. I change my oil at 3,000 miles with Royal Purple ($7 a quart) Fully Synthetic and if I happen to go overdue on my oil once, I change it early the next time just to keep on my 3,000 mile schedule. No oil change in 30,000 miles is one damn stupid thing to do. No, and I intend to run to 60k miles before I do an oil change. I will send in for a used oil analysis to verify the regime works. I have used a boroscope to inspect under the valve covers and in the cylinders, and everything is nice and shiny and clean, no sludge. I use $3.50/quart full-synthetic Esso/ExxonMobil 0W-30 oil (basically its Mobil-1, but without the expensive faggy advertising). Just to freak you out a bit more....the last time the oil was changed was in January of 2004 . And at 5 quarts a change, I've already saved $350. And considering my stock portfolio doubles every 3 years, thats like closer to $700, which is half-way towards buying a replacement car, used. Lots of studies out there too, that brand new oil actually causes more wear than properly filtered used oil. As long as the oil isn't sludging, I think I'll continue to take my chances . Perhaps you might have discovered something new so I'll hold my reservations until I hear from you again. Let me know how things go though. I could be wrong. As for me replacing the oil so early, I've generally replace it religiously every 3,000 miles. Is there actually a "burn-in" period for oil? I was always under the impression that new oil was always best, especially considering that by 3,000 miles, my oil is usually a pretty dark brown color. I don't imagine nearly black oil is as good as brand new oil. I could be wrong though, so I invite anyone around here to prove me wrong. With near 154,000 miles and absolutely no engine issues at all and still pulling strong, I would tend to believe that I must be doing something right (especially considering how badly I abuse this engine). I usually hit WOT at least 10 times during any drive I go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 No, new oil is not best, hence the reason in your track thread that I said the oil change may have hurt you. If your car is running properly, oil can last a damn long time. It's been proven over and over again. I'd still like to do a few more things to my car before I would decide to run it over 4,000 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 No, new oil is not best, hence the reason in your track thread that I said the oil change may have hurt you. If your car is running properly, oil can last a damn long time. It's been proven over and over again. I'd still like to do a few more things to my car before I would decide to run it over 4,000 miles. I don't know, I've read in some places that even 4k is too early, that the oil has not "broken in", and is still good for at least 2k more miles at the most. It's better to change it around 4 or 5k, IMO. Maybe an earlier change interval if you're using the cheap shit, but if you spend more than $2.50 on a quart, I think you're safe waiting until 5k or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 My oil is dirty at 1000 miles. I let it run to 4000 for the sake of not wasting money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRONDOG442 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 My dad changes at 7,500 in his 3.1 1994 Cutty coupe and his car has 190,000 miles on it...Never had repair one done to it, it's hard to argue with him, but then again it depends greatly on where you drive the car, how long its ran before its shut off etc etc etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 yeah guys. 4000, 5000, 7000 miles on oil is all in the realm of reality. that ding dong is talkin bout going 60,000 !!! one of the main reasons we change our oil other than the oil being dirty is because the daily heat and cooling cycles breaks down the viscosity of the oil, reducing is ability to properly lubricate. i believe these newer oils that claim higher mileage have developed a way to slow the breakdown of the oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 You guys are missing a big point... Sure the oil isn't breaking down as quick and is still considered good even at 5K with quality synthetic, but you fail to realize that the oil is dirty... Your oil filter can only do so much... So go ahead and drive around with highly contaminated oil that is accelerating wear on your bearings due to the high amount of contaminates... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron350 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Let’s say for arguments sake that synthetic oil never brakes down. What happens to all the contamination in the oil from gasoline, carbon and corrosive combustion gases that make it past the rings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Let’s say for arguments sake that synthetic oil never brakes down. What happens to all the contamination in the oil from gasoline, carbon and corrosive combustion gases that make it past the rings? x2 I would like to see the results. I'll point out one other thing. How often is the filter changed? the once a year synthetic oil whose name escapes me, recommends a mid year filter change, every 6 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 You guys are missing a big point... Sure the oil isn't breaking down as quick and is still considered good even at 5K with quality synthetic, but you fail to realize that the oil is dirty... Your oil filter can only do so much... So go ahead and drive around with highly contaminated oil that is accelerating wear on your bearings due to the high amount of contaminates... Let’s say for arguments sake that synthetic oil never brakes down. What happens to all the contamination in the oil from gasoline, carbon and corrosive combustion gases that make it past the rings? Finally there are a few people that agree with me. When I put in my oil, its yellow and clear. When I do my oil changes at 3000 miles, its black. To me, that means I need an oil change. I've never before heard of this oil break-in, and every oil change shop I've ever been to recommended I come back after 3000 miles for an oil change regardless of what kind of oil I've used. There are some oils you can buy that are supposed to give you 5000 miles, but those as far as I've seen are specifically labeled on the container. My dad's new truck on the other hand is a bit different. He actually checks the oil after 3000 miles and its still relatively clean so he decides to wait till he does his oil change. However, my oil seems to get dirty rather quickly so I really don't know if I should be taking any chances. Sure you might be able to run a car to 200,000 miles on an oil change every 7,500 miles, but mind you I'm pulling considerably faster than stock trap times with "minor mods" under horrible conditions at 154,000 miles, so I too would argue that I must be doing something right. I don't need opinions from people who have had experiences here and there, but rather stated facts and research reports that will attest to the claims some of you are making on how long car oil should be used, unless of course some of you here are willing to claim that you're certified experts in the field. Let’s say for arguments sake that synthetic oil never brakes down. What happens to all the contamination in the oil from gasoline, carbon and corrosive combustion gases that make it past the rings? x2 I would like to see the results. I'll point out one other thing. How often is the filter changed? the once a year synthetic oil whose name escapes me, recommends a mid year filter change, every 6 months. Perhaps I might be throwing money away, but I pay $3 for a decent quality oil filter every time I get an oil change done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitzel Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Let’s say for arguments sake that synthetic oil never brakes down. What happens to all the contamination in the oil from gasoline, carbon and corrosive combustion gases that make it past the rings? Petrol (gasoline) that makes it past the rings and into the oil evaporates out of the oil through the PCV when the engine is hot. Carbon is minimal if the engine is properly in tune. This material ends up in the oil, and is suspended in the oil. The oil I use is a dual-rated gas/diesel engine oil, and trust me, diesel engines put a *ton* more crap (ie: soot, etc.) into the oil than a gas engine ever would. Combustion gases are not particularly corrosive (as sulfur standards have been lowered dramatically in the past few years, to fight pollution), and in any event, are neutralized by the oil. My car naturally leaks roughly a quart every 9k miles, so I keep it topped off which replenishes the additives. Also, oil that is rated for both gas and diesel engines contains a *much* higher level of acid fighting additives. I've changed the filter once in the past 30k. The manual for these cars suggests 7.5k miles, on *dino* oil manufactured in the mid-late 1980s. Oil quality has improved dramatically since then, and quality synthetic oils are virtually immune to thermal breakdown in relatively cool running engines such as the 3.1. New European cars routinely run 30-40k oil change intervals in Europe, using quality oils, with no ill effects, and these are often 1.5L-2.0L engines, not a big 3.1, driven much harder (ie: Autobahn, MI-5, etc.) than I do in North America. There's nothing magically different about the European engines -- just that oil is so expensive in Europe, and they don't have a quickie-lube industry there with substantial vested economic interest in making people waste oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgenin Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 The point was, it does not matter if the oil thermally breaks down. You should change your oil every 3000 miles. Synthetic oil wont break down this early, but your engine will contaminate it with carbon, rust, and whatnot, hence the darker color. And old GM motors seem to be pretty good at doing this, so it doesn't matter what type of oil you have put it, it will still become contaminated. I agree that some engines can go longer. The new Toyota's say something like 6000 miles, but that is due to cleaner burning engines, better tolerances, and better design (like DOHC). If the engineers at GM thought you could get away with leaving your oil in twice as long, then they would have indicated that in your service manual. And they have done the tests. You could probably get away with changing your oil every 6000 miles, but you will save something like $200 after 100, 000 miles? Is it really worth it? If you are concerned about society wasting oil, then go buy the re-cycled kind for your car. Most of the oil is recycled for other uses anyways (unless you are the one who pours it down my storm sewer). By the way, my Lumina gets a combined average of 10 L/100 km, approximately, 25 mpg combined city and highway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron350 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 pitzel That is some good information but the 30,000 mile oil change is scary. By any chance are you running a bypass filter to keep the regular oil filter clean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Let’s say for arguments sake that synthetic oil never brakes down. What happens to all the contamination in the oil from gasoline, carbon and corrosive combustion gases that make it past the rings? Petrol (gasoline) that makes it past the rings and into the oil evaporates out of the oil through the PCV when the engine is hot. Carbon is minimal if the engine is properly in tune. This material ends up in the oil, and is suspended in the oil. No, it doesn't... Once gasoline and it's fractions condenses in the oil, it's there for good... Carbon doesn't suspend in oil, it will dissolve and even more so if there is fuel contamination... Carbon is immenent, hence EGR passages get clogged.. Do us and yourself a favor, go pull your dipstick up and smell it... Then quit being stupid and change your damn oil... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 @ this thread!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitzel Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 No, it doesn't... Once gasoline and it's fractions condenses in the oil, it's there for good... Obviously you failed high school chemistry, to wit: if something can dissolve in air (like gasoline), it most certainly can, and does dissolve when dissolved in a higher-boiling point fluid such as motor oil. Especially when in a hot engine. Carbon doesn't suspend in oil, it will dissolve and even more so if there is fuel contamination... Carbon is immenent, hence EGR passages get clogged.. Carbon doesn't suspend in oil.....lol. Obviously you've never seen a diesel engine, whereby lots of carbon is suspended in oil. If carbon didn't suspend in oil, then you could take your used oil, and all the carbon would settle to the bottom. Doesn't happen. Do us and yourself a favor, go pull your dipstick up and smell it... Then quit being stupid and change your damn oil... Sure, the oil looks just fine on the dipstick, and I am sure, just like the guy on bobistheoilguy who runs nearly identical engines in taxi-cabs for 50k between oil changes, that my oil is just fine. If your dipstick smells like gas, then I think you should check your injectors, PCV system, or even oxygen sensor as one or the other is defective, and is causing way too much fuel to be injected into your engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Mazda recommends my oil be changed every 8000km, or 5000miles. I'm doing it every 3000miles/5000km because the supercharger has a seal that is notorious for failing if the engine oil is dirty (my engine and supercharger share the same oil)..once that seal goes bye bye oil leaks into the combustion areas. The seal cannot be replaced, and the s/c must be replaced completely..$6000cdn for a new one. I change every 3000miles lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitzel Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Mazda recommends my oil be changed every 8000km, or 5000miles. I'm doing it every 3000miles/5000km because the supercharger has a seal that is notorious for failing if the engine oil is dirty (my engine and supercharger share the same oil)..once that seal goes bye bye oil leaks into the combustion areas. The seal cannot be replaced, and the s/c must be replaced completely..$6000cdn for a new one. I change every 3000miles lol. Yeah certain Saturns are like that too: they use the engine oil to drive a certain hydraulic tensioning system inside the engine, and are very sensitive to oil quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgenin Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 My friend bought a new Toyota Camry for his wife, and she "forgot" to change the oil, and after 24, 000 km, sure enough, the engine blew. So i would be extremely hesitant to leave my oil in for 50, 000. Like I said before, were arguing over a couple hundred dollars extra spent over a hundred thousand km. I'm sure most of us have dropped this kind of money on car wash soap alone, or new parts every day. So if your looking to save a few bucks, in my opinion, you should do it somewhere besides your motor oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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