chadz34 Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Ya I guess GM says you HAVE to replace the LIM bolts or it will leak again, they are a hole 10$ for all the bolts, so its obviously not like a marketing sceem or expensive parts Good to know! this isn't somethin' I'd heard before, but I'll remember it for the next ones I do. --Dave. I'm suprised it isn't a marketing scheme by GM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospeeder Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Ya I guess GM says you HAVE to replace the LIM bolts or it will leak again, they are a hole 10$ for all the bolts, so its obviously not like a marketing sceem or expensive parts Good to know! this isn't somethin' I'd heard before, but I'll remember it for the next ones I do. --Dave. I'm suprised it isn't a marketing scheme by GM! Prolly not, seeing as how we reused the bolts and my moms is leaking again after only a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadz34 Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Ya I guess GM says you HAVE to replace the LIM bolts or it will leak again, they are a hole 10$ for all the bolts, so its obviously not like a marketing sceem or expensive parts Good to know! this isn't somethin' I'd heard before, but I'll remember it for the next ones I do. --Dave. I'm suprised it isn't a marketing scheme by GM! Prolly not, seeing as how we reused the bolts and my moms is leaking again after only a year So, it is MANDITORY you change the bolts with new GM ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Ya I guess GM says you HAVE to replace the LIM bolts or it will leak again, they are a hole 10$ for all the bolts, so its obviously not like a marketing sceem or expensive parts for all 8? It was $32 for me even after my 20% discount. I only bought them cause I lost them during engine transport. The lim bolts aren't torque-to-yield, they just suggest them cause they already have threadlock on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospeeder Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Pricing: LIM gasket: $60.34 Coolant bottle w/ cap: $52.90 BOLTS: $5.77 each (total 23.08) BOLTS: $4.94 each (total 19.76) Freight: $12.50 Cheveron Motor Oil: $11.21 Oil Filter: $4.95 Tax: $14.67 Shop supplies:$ 8.31 GRAND TOTAL: $207.72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 thats $175.59. The $5.77 is for each long bolt and the $4.94 is each short. Going that method, x4 for each style bolt I get your $207.72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospeeder Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Ah ur right! I missed that shit, I didnt notice the UNIT PRICE and Total! Edited now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Head bolts was what was expensive for me (I ended up returning them anyways cause I didn't use them). The GM ones were some insane price, GO TO NAPA!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted February 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Some guy came by to look at it and offered me $2500. If this was a 1996 Grand Prix with a blown engine, yes. A fully loaded '99 Montana under 100k? No way in fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 The torque specs for the NEW bolts are... Inners......115 lb/in....or something VERY close to that. Outters.....13 lb/ft Uppers.....18 lb/ft There is a sheet with the new gaskets that lists the specs. They have some magical thread sealer/lock tite on the threads. Plus the fact that they are new and clean. Dave.....engine flushes are BAD....GM really doesn't like those. How exactly did you perform those? Remember.....coolant in oil is intake gaskets.....oil in coolant is cracked block. BTW....what kind of times can you guys tear a lower intake off in? Yesterday, I did an intake on a 2000 Impala....I had the lower off, pushrods out, and gaskets off in 40 minutes. 3 hours in the entire job. This was doing it the proper way. There are ways you can cheat at them, and do on in less than 2 hours. If you do a lot of these, I suggjest buying the rocker arm tool....I bought mine from Mac, I'm sure Matco has them as well. Its a big lever to pick up on the rocker, while you pull the pushrod out from under it. This way, you don't have to loosen the rockers and worry about the studs pulling out of the head down the road. You only have to reach down and turn the crank to get them off the cam lobes. A cresent wrench works as well. I also don't like unhooking the TB lines......so I don't.......just unhook the heater core hose, and unbolt the pipe from the waterpump housing and take it with it. To clean the lower intake....don't use a wizz wheel. Use a sanding block, brake clean, and a super scraper. You may want to send it and the valve covers to a machine shop for hot tanking. Look, intake gaskets leak.......4.3 and 5.7 engines are similarly setup, and leak just as much coolant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitcor Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Ya I guess GM says you HAVE to replace the LIM bolts or it will leak again, they are a hole 10$ for all the bolts, so its obviously not like a marketing sceem or expensive parts Good to know! this isn't somethin' I'd heard before, but I'll remember it for the next ones I do. --Dave. I'm suprised it isn't a marketing scheme by GM! Prolly not, seeing as how we reused the bolts and my moms is leaking again after only a year Its not a scam however from what I have seen the new bolts are excatly the same as the stock bolts however they have a poweder type thread locker embedded in the lowest threads. Its possible the bolt is made of a different metal to prevent streching as well. However overall other than the thread locker the bolts looked identical. Personally I wouldnt take a chance and would replace the bolts. Ive done about 2 or 3 topends using the new kits and have put close to 45k on them. No leaks so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 At 45k on mine, its leaking again. Its just something I do...every 50k, reseal the lower intake. My cost on parts, is about $100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 wow that sucks shaun...didn't you just re-do it again? wow i hope you can get something decent for the van... :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 I still use my whizz wheel with the green-plastic finger disc for cleanin' the manifold - my best time was 2 1/2 hours on a corsica start to finish, 5 hours on the car total - intake gaskets, water pump, radiator, and somethin' else real easy and stupid. as for the kerosene flush, we use the "5-minute motor flush" and we do that twice - so we'd do the gasket, then change the oil and filter, add the 5 minute motor flush, change the oil and filter again, re add the 5 minute stuff and then we'd change the oil and filter for the final time. it sounds like a waste, but it'll clean all that crap outta the engine, and we never had any customers complaining about a catastrophic failure. the Jeep V8's have loads of intake manifold gasket problems, and the 4.3's are more prone to tossing out those fuel injection spiders. --Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 that sux man...i see way too many of these engines die...people just arent doing PM anymore...they just wait till it breaks, and thats when it costs more ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure this is one of the reasons that i use Hylomar or Permatex Aviaton form-a gasket sealing liquid. it never hardens but seals the tiny imperfections really well and doesnt affect expansion/contraction sealing like RTV does... after 100's of intakes with this stuff...i love it...one car i saw a few weeks ago i had done the intake on ( 97 3100) in 1999 and had put on almost twice the miles on it than when i originally did the gasket...I will use this stuff ferevar! just did a 5.7 LIM gasket yesterday... also one thing i have noticed is that the gaskets fail sooner if instead of scrapping the debris off (use clean new razor blades and change often if they start to get nicks) they use a 3M cookie on a grinder...this destroyes the nice smooth surface that they gaskets are designed to have to maintain seal...the Permatex sealant works wonders on these... if any of ya are doing LIM gaskets i heavily suggest using this liquid aviation sealer around the coolant ports on both sides of the gasket (dont need it on the ports...maybe though if your boosted)...you'll thank me. oh and just reuse the bolts...wire wheel them and apply blue threadlocker compound (Locktite) James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Don't put that shit on the gasket......it pushes the gasket out....it will leak. I've seen way to many hacked intakes. Don't you guys just love intakes? 5-6 hours for 3-4 hours work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Don't put that shit on the gasket......it pushes the gasket out....it will leak. I've seen way to many hacked intakes. Don't you guys just love intakes? 5-6 hours for 3-4 hours work. i'll have to agree to disagree with ya on that...i dont even have a problem with "Moist" seepage (where you see dirt collecting around the side of the heads even after a recent replacment) since i started using this permatex aviation liquid sealant (it never hardens) in 98...and i've done hundreds...never had a problem with any of them...and independant shops hate to redo work... the 5.7 i just finsihed had been done by my boss (before i worked here) 1 year ago and the gaskets had been installed dry... i use what works...if you dont want to thats fine...but i'm just trying to get the info out there...IIRC it was an airplane mechanic (Palwauke) that turned me onto this stuff after using it on his 3100...and on an airplane the last thing you want is an engine failure while in the air...think about it 3 hrs when i take my time to do it my way, from draining the coolant to finishing bleeding air from cooling system Regards, James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 I'm just basing it off of what I have seen. The sealant you are talking about is the No. 3 Sealant Form-A-Gasket...correct? That stuff is for tight fitting components....like intake manifold to head.....and may work very well for the coolant ports, however, I hope you aren't using it on the ends of the oil gallery. Maybe it holds fine....but its not what you are supposed to use. Permatex makes the sealant GM sells....always has, and pry always will. I believe the same shit we use is the Ultra Black that Permatex sells...except GM's is grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 youre mistaken in what sealant i am talking about... yes i use RTV for the oil seals at the ends of the manifold (I adore Permatex "rightstuff") however, the permatex aviation liquid sealant that i am talking about is Not a Room Temp Vulcanizing compound...its more like an anerobic sealant its a liquid (like cold maple surup) tar like substance that while it gets thicker as it cures (to more of a tar consistancy) it is still flexible maleable (will hold your fingerprint for an hour after setting for 5-500+ days (the top of my jar has a bunch of layers of it (16oz bottle/brush container) and i can roll it into balls etc. it is a very tenacious (sticks to everything) sealant that stays maleable/flexible (will string like a good wheel bearing grease) forever and is good for below zero all the way up to 500+* you can get small jars of the stuff for fairly cheap (4 oz)...i have yet to locate another big container of it anywhere (16 ozso i think i'm gonna have to order a new one in the near future. Permatex Aviation Form-a-gasket sealant liquid Part No 80017 (16oz) or the smaller bottle (different name but same compound) Permatex Super "300" form-a-gasket liquid sealant Part No 80057 (4oz) specs: (both similar) withstands synthetic diester type oils and lubricants, high octane fuels, silicate compounds, hot and cold water, antifreeze, glycerin, kerosene, butane applies as a liquid changes to a paste/tar resistes pressures to 5000 psi dep on type of application, perfect for high vibration aplication remains pliable from minus 65* to 500* black nonhardening brushable liquid sealant I never use RTV anymore around coolant ports on any intake gaskets anymore, especially the captured Oring style GM and others are now using as these gaskets are designed to "scrub" as the metals expand and contract which is what this sealant is designed for. I use permatex "the right stuff" RTV for all my other sealing needs as it sticks even through coolant/oil coated surfaces better than Ultra Black. to tell you the truth "the right stuff" according to my father is the same sh!7 they used on his nuclear submarine way before it was for sale to the general public, as it has very low VOC for emergency repairs in the small confines of a nuclear sub without destroying the breathable air inside the sub. i suggest you grab a 4oz bottle of the supper "300" or aviation liquid sealant and try it out for yourself...you'll use it forever afterwards like me Regards, James Here for those who dont know what exactly we are talking about: The right stuff-> http://www.permatex.com/auto/autouh.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=25223 Hylomar Very similar to the aviation sealant i got in a jug but is much better/more expensive...i use it on my vehicles while i use the cheaper jugs for customers, and because i cant find it in a big jar, only a tube or in an aerosol form-> http://www.permatex.com/auto/autouh.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=25249 Super "300" -> http://www.permatex.com/products/prodidx.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=80057 Aviation liquid sealant-> http://www.permatex.com/products/prodidx.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=80017 medium strength "blue" threadlocker for LIM bolts-> http://www.permatex.com/auto/autouh.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=24200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95oldsVan Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 AGreed with the Right Stuff...its expensive but is some of the best sealer Ive ever used.I used some to reseal intake manifolds and never had leaks again. I also did a 86 Vette rear end with this seal for the carrier since it doesnt use a gasket but RTV and its never leaked.The RTVs would last a year or so,if that.The Right Stuff has been worth it everytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Shitty luck Shaun....you are sorta of in the same position as my dad was lat April when he popped the motor in his Suburban.....we decided to buy a new motor and keep the truck till the body falls off of it. If the tranny ever gets replaced, the driveline will be pretty much brand new (2wd so no transfer case). As of now it is rust free....and we're not driving it in winter because it has absolutely no traction....and it pointless since we have several FWD sleds to use in winter, and not to mention that diesel takes forever to warm up in winter. Good luck with what you deicde to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 That's actually a good idea. Maybe you can rebuild a 3400 from the JY outside of the van and do it 100% right so that you hopefully never have to again. GL HF either way Shaun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Put a 3.1MPFI in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospeeder Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Put a 3.1MPFI in it. Put a Duke in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Our 95 Lumina van basically has a "V6 iron duke"... 3.1L iron head, throttle body injection, ~130hp of doom. It's got over 160k on it (I really don't know how much) it just leaks oil but can't kill it. The tranny is good too, dropped the pan last summer and it looked good. Those things are known to go 500,000+km.. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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