95oldsVan Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 I have a 91 Lumina that has never had any problems with the rear brakes,except when one of the brake hoses went bad.The rear Disc set up has been fine,but doesnt look like it does much work back there.But it works,hasnt seized up and never gave me any real problems. My brother had a 92 Lumina Z34 and had alot of problems with his rear brake set up...so my question is,despite Im lucky and have close to 200K miles on my set up,what is the problems with the rear calipers and brakes on the earlier cars?What usually goes wrong and whats the fix? Im just curious whats to know about this rear disc set up that Ive been reading and hearing is a very poor design.Thanks for any info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 the calipers are notorious for siezing up. IIRC there was even a lawsuit against GM about this problem (and GM lost). this problem causes one (or both) of the rear brakes to be inoperative and also causes more stress/heat on the front brakes which can lead to warped front rotors and short front brake pad life. i didn't have this problem with my Cutlass but both of the rear calipers on my TSTE were siezed up. it was obvious when i found that both rear rotors on my TSTE were completely rusted over. i have upgraded to '94+ rear brakes on both of my cars... '94+ W-body rear brakes are a great fix and you also step up to larger rotors - at the cost of losing the parking brake since the parking brake cables aren't compatible with '94+ calipers. as long as you don't have a manual transmission or have safety inspection in your area it shouldn't be a problem although you can get the parking brake to work as long as you use '94+ parking brake cables with the '94+ rear calipers. i believe the problem with '88-'93 rear calipers may be fixed by replacing the caliper sliders with SS sliders. i'm not really sure though as i haven't done that. i wouldn't even bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 I don't think SS sliders would help. On mine, there was actually no corrosion. The problem was the lubricant had become so gummy, it locked up the sliders. I couldn't even pound them out with a hammer. The design of the calipers sucks bad anyway. It's not unusual for the park brake mechanism to not adjust itself correctly, or not release when used. Not to mention I've had to replace several of them because they were bleeding brake fluid out of that little rubber plug in the middle of the piston. I don't even know what that plug was doing there, I've never seen any other brake caliper pistons with a little rubber plug in 'em like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastbird232 Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Had that problem with my '89 SE. The local mechanic said I'd be better off junking the car, as I paid $75 for the car and the brakes would cost a couple hundred to fix. I practically had to stand on the pedal to get it to stop from 45 mph, but amazingly enough, someone gave me $300 for it in that condition (he said he had another '90 SE parts car to swap the calipers from. I kept my mouth shut...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95oldsVan Posted January 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Sounds like a conversion to drum brakes would be cheaper and easier! Maybe Im not having any problems because they prob dont do much work anyways. :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Nah, drum brakes would be a lot harder than converting to 94+ rear calipers. If they don't do enough work, the front brakes will work too hard and the rotors will warp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 http://www.tpsgarage.com/TGP/brakes/rear_brake_upgrade.htm a good how to with info. They bolt right on identically to the originals, with two bolts to the spindle. You can reuse your original hose(usually) I have done this twice, and I got all parts good condition (totaled cars with fresh brake jobs) and for $25 a set from a u-pull-it j/y. donors are 94+ GP, CS, and Regal, and very few 94+luminas or mcarlos also had this setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95oldsVan Posted January 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 http://www.tpsgarage.com/TGP/brakes/rear_brake_upgrade.htma good how to with info. They bolt right on identically to the originals, with two bolts to the spindle. You can reuse your original hose(usually) I have done this twice, and I got all parts good condition (totaled cars with fresh brake jobs) and for $25 a set from a u-pull-it j/y. donors are 94+ GP, CS, and Regal, and very few 94+luminas or mcarlos also had this setup. Thats good to know...I live in a state that doesnt require inspections to see if the parking brake works so I may decide to do that swap later if I ever have any problems.I never use mine now and it isnt even hooked up anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospeeder Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 I havent had problems YET on my brakes, and my car sat for 2 years! And my brakes are rusty as hell, but the Parking brake sets and unsets great and the car stops fine, so i dunno, Although there getting slow to disengage, you can hear them groan as they come apart after letting of the brake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdwhite Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Don't waste your time with the slider kits. The previous owner of my '93 Cutlass Supreme had the sliders put in. Then, after I bought the car and about 10K later, rear brakes seized up again. GM WAS doing the refits for free but you had to get in before October of 2000...I bought mine in November. DOH. Anyway, I had the local GM dealer do the slider kits for me. 11,000 miles later they were seized up again. They put in the kits *again* (for a 3rd time) under warranty. When the calipers seized up yet again, I found this wonderful website, switched over to a 94+ setup and am pleased as punch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 i think one of the old calipers on my TSTE had them done too...one of the calipers had anodized blue sliders and the other one didn't both of them were completely siezed up though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 i think one of the old calipers on my TSTE had them done too...one of the calipers had anodized blue sliders and the other one didn't both of them were completely siezed up though. The blue anodized sliders demark the ones sold by autozone! and mine failed after 2 years of use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay3800 Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 the calipers are notorious for siezing up. The design of the calipers sucks bad anyway. It's not unusual for the park brake mechanism to not adjust itself correctly, or not release when used. I've had both of those problems more than once. If I planned on keeping my car longer, I would definitely upgrade to '94+ brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwgn3 Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 This upgrade sounds great! So all I need are the 94+ calipers, and the larger rotors? Are the pads different? What about the caliper adapter bracket that bolts to the hub is that diffent too or can I use the same one? What about wheel clearance, is that reduced? Man that sounds great once my car is through the safety I'm gonna rip those off and get some new calipers! Sorry for bumping up an old topic but I just got this car and am swimming though this vast ocean of wonderful warm information! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 http://www.w-body.com/forum/search.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwgn3 Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Man I hate it when people do that. I KNOW about the search button, that's how I found this thread in the first place! I have already been using that search button on various topics on my (new to me) Lumina for about 3 hours reading through dozens and dozens of threads and posts. I was getting tired. I would like to be able to find an answer to a simple question without having to read through 40 threads of only-slightly-related topics. In anycase, I took a closer look at the link way up (on the brake conversion) and it does look like I need the adapters anyways. I couldn't tell before because the screen I was reading at the time was too dark. (1993 vintage 15" monitor) Sheez I even apologised for bumping the old topic and you hit me with that. What do you take me for? I may be new HERE but I am already on several different forums and I know how things work. Grumble. I've only been here a day and it seems a lot of people have a chip on their shoulder. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Not sure what you mean by adaptors, but you do need the brackets. I was the very first person that I'm aware of that attempted this upgrade, and I made a writeup many years ago: http://www.w-body.com/upgrades/brakes-rearcalipers94.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 i'm not even so convinced that its the sliders themselves, i have yet to have a slider sieze up on me, my biggest issue has been the piston itself NOT retracting fully, i just redid my brakes a few months ago and all seems to be alright with them for now, time will tell how long they last, either eay, i got lifetime warranty pads, and callipers now, autozones gona hate me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 On one of mine, the slider was jammed in there rock solid. I couldn't get it out, not even pounding it with a hammer. It preferred to deform before it was going to come out! But yeah, I've had the piston's internal mechanism lock up too. I've also had brake fluid leak out of that rubber plug in the middle of the piston. I've had all kinds of problems with the old style calipers. They're a crap design for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 On one of mine, the slider was jammed in there rock solid. I couldn't get it out, not even pounding it with a hammer. It preferred to deform before it was going to come out! But yeah, I've had the piston's internal mechanism lock up too. I've also had brake fluid leak out of that rubber plug in the middle of the piston. I've had all kinds of problems with the old style calipers. They're a crap design for sure.. IIRC there's a special tool you can use down in the hole of the center of the piston for holding some small stupid part durring a rebuild - when that starts leaking, it's usually a sign the piston is cracked. That's a big problem with aftermarket caliper rebuilders, they use CRAP parts to save a few bucks, like powder casting, and other ideas that "seemed like a good idea at the time" (euro disney comes to mind) Either way, the big problem with the rear brakes on the early W's was that the rear brakes were more apt to collect moisture which would solidify most lubricants, cause corrosion, which eventually leads to overheating of the rear rotors causing warpage not only in the rotor, but also on the hub face, meaning every time you put new rotors on there, they will already be out true in compaison to the caliper, quickly causing an overheat issue which will also work to solidify the lube, and seize up the rotor, and cause excess corrosion ... --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 http://www.w-body.com/forum/search.php no offense... but that is kinda rude! A new guy should be helped, I find his request was reasonable... Even I have had to ask for direction to a thread on an issue if I can't find it in spite of searching... would I get the same knocking response??? Man I hate it when people do that. I KNOW about the search button, that's how I found this thread in the first place! I have already been using that search button on various topics on my (new to me) Lumina for about 3 hours reading through dozens and dozens of threads and posts. I was getting tired. I would like to be able to find an answer to a simple question without having to read through 40 threads of only-slightly-related topics. In anycase, I took a closer look at the link way up (on the brake conversion) and it does look like I need the adapters anyways. I couldn't tell before because the screen I was reading at the time was too dark. (1993 vintage 15" monitor) Sheez I even apologised for bumping the old topic and you hit me with that. What do you take me for? I may be new HERE but I am already on several different forums and I know how things work. Grumble. I've only been here a day and it seems a lot of people have a chip on their shoulder. Doug Pads are different. You will need the donor brackets and the shorter retaining bolts that go with those bracket... (I believe you were refering to them as adapters?) simply all the info is here. http://www.tpsgarage.com/TGP/brakes/rear_brake_upgrade.htm If you get all the hardware from a donor car you should be set, and the only issue is the parking brake cable ends... Which can be attached with a bit of work to the newer brackets, and work. the right cable has to rerouted from in front of the gas tank to behind it, and I used zip-ties to lock em up, as well as to secure the left side cable end to the caliper's arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwgn3 Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Well it's been 6 months since the rear brake upgrade. All I can say is, it is so incredibly WORTH it!! Car's been to Hell Michigan and back with the trailer on it, and serves as daily driver. Car still stops on a dime with minimal fade. My brother drove a customer's 92-ish Lumina 3.1 at his work that still had the old rear discs on the back, HUGE difference. Which leads to what I hope will be my last question on this topic. My brother saw that this lumina at his work had 14" steel wheels on it. I was wondering if those wheels would fit over my 94+ upgraded rear brakes. Anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey b Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 If you get all the hardware from a donor car you should be set, and the only issue is the parking brake cable ends... Which can be attached with a bit of work to the newer brackets, and work. the right cable has to rerouted from in front of the gas tank to behind it, and I used zip-ties to lock em up, as well as to secure the left side cable end to the caliper's arm. More info please!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Glad you agree. I advocate this upgrade to everyone! While it would be better to totally replace the parking brake cable system with a 94+ cables and foot pedal, you can ghetto rig the parking brakes to work, although they may not hold as well as they should More info please!! If you get all the hardware from a donor car you should be set, and the only issue is the parking brake cable ends... Which can be attached with a bit of work to the newer brackets, and work. the right cable has to rerouted from in front of the gas tank to behind it, and I used zip-ties to lock em up, as well as to secure the left side cable end to the caliper's arm. the right side cable originally goes in the crevice formed between the body and the front of the fuel tank. it has two or three ten millimeter bolts. You need to locate these and remove with a 10mm wrench. disconnect the end of the cable from the right caliper and drag it out from the side and out through the crevice in front go the tank. I find disconnection is easy using a vice grip to pull and twist the cable out, and using a flathead scre driver to depress the three retaining tangs on the collar of the cable. route the cable straight back, along the drivers side of the tank, through the rear suspension and finally along the rear side of the rear suspension until it reaches the new caliper. ONLY the cable at the end can be attached, which means the spring on the end of the cable will free float, slack will exist... Unless you try and succeed to adjust the cable(got a torch? forget it you'll never be able to, I broke one trying, even ewith the torch)this slack will just exist, but will be taken up by the first pedal, and a repeated rachet should apply to parking brake. another may be needed to tighten it more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossman429 Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Did mine last week! Made a world of difference, my rears had been seized up since I bought the car. I was afraid to do the upgrade because I thought finding parts would be a pain in the ass (no good J/Ys in the area) Out with the old: In with the New: I didn't have pads in the calipers when I took the pic, but you get the idea. Now that I'm done with this I would advise it to ANYONE with a pre 94 W body, the difference is fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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