Open Cone(Hot air intake) vs Cold Air Intake

[Heartbeat1991]

You may not run better in a colder air climate, BUT you may run more eficient because you won't tire out quicker. Perhaps the whole straw thing doesn't apply, but you can't deny that if you're not heated up, you perform better. Think about when you work. When you start out working, are you more energized since you haven't been sweating or are you tired out because you're colder? Once you start sweating bullets and your body is hot, you don't want to work as hard as you did when you first started working.

 

Lets put it this way. Would you feel tired more quickly and breathe harder if you went out and ran on a humid 100F day or if you went out and ran on a 70F breezy day?

 

As far as all this goes though, the whole "cai/wai" thing is purely sound. You can make one using the stock box by simply getting a custom pipe done that removes the accordion, and removes all silencers. The 2 biggest restrictions on a car is the muffler and the silencer. If you seriously want more power, the easiest way to do so is to do the whole intake and exhaust system. You won't notice anything by simply doing a WAI or CAI because you have stock programming that limits air intake and you have the MAF that hinders you. Any car with a MAF doesn't benefit from a CAI without proper tuning. If a car inhales and exhales better, you will feel a minimal boost in performance, but that's it. Your powerband stays the same but the jump the engine has is better/more quicker.

 

If you're making a custom CAI, go ahead, but get yourself a Dynamax Turbo muffler (if you don't want exhaust sound but want efficient flow) and replace your resonator with a Cherry Bomb (better flowing). If you can, get high flow cats as well. Then you'll have something you can feel did a difference but you still at days end will make 5 more hp at best. It will be enough for a launch, but not enough to mash the gas to overtake someone. The 3800 is naturally anemic in the higher powerband, which is why this engine loves boost. Your engine already has boost so at most, you'll have the impression of a better working engine but real horsepower comes from internal engine mods.

 

 

You simply cannot compare a human body to an engine. They don't operate the same. Nothing is similar between the two.

[l67ss]

You simply cannot compare a human body to an engine. They don't operate the same. Nothing is similar between the two.

 

Really? So the intake and temp of air make zero dif to a human? I used to work in an aluminum foundry, im listening

[Nas Escobar]

Really? So the intake and temp of air make zero dif to a human? I used to work in an aluminum foundry, im listening

Just take him to machu pichu or the mountains of Bolivia and let's see how he handles the dense air.

 

Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk

[skitchin]

Colder air makes denser and more powerful mixtures of air and fuel. This is why temperature/density altitude is so important in racing. Cars make more power on a cooler day. So if you can make your car breath just a little bit cooler air, you're going to see gains.

[Heartbeat1991]

Really? So the intake and temp of air make zero dif to a human? I used to work in an aluminum foundry, im listening

 

Humans do not burn fuel the way a car does. We do not inhale and exhale simultaneously.

 

The bottom line is that colder air creates more power more efficiently. ( In an engine )

[l67ss]

Humans do not burn fuel the way a car does. We do not inhale and exhale simultaneously.

 

The bottom line is that colder air creates more power more efficiently. ( In an engine )

 

niether do engines. each cylinder only inhales/exhales one at a time. im not denying cold dense air makes power,just saying restricted, turbulant air costs power regardless of coldness/density

[l67ss]

Humans do not burn fuel the way a car does. We do not inhale and exhale simultaneously.

 

The bottom line is that colder air creates more power more efficiently. ( In an engine )

 

niether do engines. each cylinder only inhales/exhales one at a time. im not denying cold dense air makes power,just saying restricted, turbulant air costs power regardless of coldness/density

[Heartbeat1991]

niether do engines. each cylinder only inhales/exhales one at a time. im not denying cold dense air makes power,just saying restricted, turbulant air costs power regardless of coldness/density

 

Seriously? Cylinders exhale, inhale one at a time, but the engine, as a whole, does both at the same time. While some cylinders are inhaling, others are exhaling. A human cannot do that with their lungs. Human lungs do not combust fuel in them either. Therefore cold air does not pack more energy in a human lung.

 

At least we agree that colder air produces more power.

[Galaxie500XL]

Restricted, yes...turbulent, not necessarily.

 

Keep in mind, though, "restricted" might not mean what you think it means. If the engine requires say, 700 CFM at WOT, an intake design that can flow 1000 CFM is probably more than sufficient, even if it looks like it's "restricted"...so, the first big question to ask when designing an aftermarket system would be just how much airflow does the engine need?

 

In pretty much every discussion I've ever seen about the pros and cons of an aftermarket intake system, I've yet to see anyone actually discuss how much flow was actually needed--which, after all, should determine whether there is any actual benefit.

 

niether do engines. each cylinder only inhales/exhales one at a time. im not denying cold dense air makes power,just saying restricted, turbulant air costs power regardless of coldness/density

Edited September 4, 2014 by Galaxie500XL

[Schurkey]

restricted, turbulant air costs power regardless of coldness/density

And yet no-one has shown that the factory system is restricted enough to affect power.

 

For the record, if you can get the air to spin, it'll go around bends in the plumbing more easily. Swirl and tumble in the combustion chamber reduces the amount of ignition advance needed, lowers piston temperature, speeds the burn, and improves engine efficiency (power and fuel economy). Not all turbulence is bad.

 

Virtually all aftermarket air intake systems are sold or fabricated for a reason OTHER than improved power. Mostly they're just noisy and flashy.

[Imp558]

The factory CAI should be adequate, I believe the premise behind a cai is to flow more air in a "modified" engine where the factory cai may be ill equipped to handle an engine that's moving more boost or has a ported induction system/free flowing exhaust.

However I did notice an improvement in response just by cutting the underside off the factory airbox, I suppose that means little without a dyno chart as people are often likely to notice something just because they expect it, whether it's different or not and I'm not immune to my imagination any more than the next guy.

I'm hoping to start modding engine #3 in 2015,and my FWI/CAI is ready.

[RobertISaar]

However I did notice an improvement in response just by cutting the underside off the factory airbox, I suppose that means little without a dyno chart as people are often likely to notice something just because they expect it, whether it's different or not and I'm not immune to my imagination any more than the next guy.

 

at one point, i measured the triangular entry section at its smallest perimeter and i can't remember exact numbers, but i seem to remember its area being noticably larger than the throttle plate on a 3100/3400(52/56mm). considering the same box/setup with a LQ1 is flowing enough air to make 210+HP, i'm not surprised.

[l67ss]

at one point, i measured the triangular entry section at its smallest perimeter and i can't remember exact numbers, but i seem to remember its area being noticably larger than the throttle plate on a 3100/3400(52/56mm). considering the same box/setup with a LQ1 is flowing enough air to make 210+HP, i'm not surprised.

 

Course an l67 has a 68mm tb...........

[l67ss]

The factory CAI should be adequate, I believe the premise behind a cai is to flow more air in a "modified" engine where the factory cai may be ill equipped to handle an engine that's moving more boost or has a ported induction system/free flowing exhaust.

However I did notice an improvement in response just by cutting the underside off the factory airbox, I suppose that means little without a dyno chart as people are often likely to notice something just because they expect it, whether it's different or not and I'm not immune to my imagination any more than the next guy.

I'm hoping to start modding engine #3 in 2015,and my FWI/CAI is ready.

 

Planning on a new build myself soon, topswap, m112, 1.9 rockers, n*, ic, ported s3 heads, etc etc. Kinda figured out im gonna need to make my own adapters to do the m112 conversion as no one will give me a straight answer on specs

[skitchin]

Pretty straight forward design on this first one, from a rally car

 

Second one is from the same company who made the intake on my camaro. It's an enclosed and insulated box design, guessing it pulls air from behind the headlight?

[Galaxie500XL]

True, but the diameter of the tb sets maximum possible flow, not necessarily the total flow the engine is asking for...and I'm not sure how close those two numbers are.

Course an l67 has a 68mm tb...........

[Galaxie500XL]

Did a little research, and it's fairly easy to determine maximum airflow for an engine:

Using the example they used, since we know 100% volumetric efficiency is exceptionally unlikely, the actual airflow requirements are surprisingly low for most street engines, well below 500 CFM at WOT.

 

I played with the numbers a bit...an LQ1 at WOT at 7,000 RPM requires 419 CFM of air, assuming 100% VE. More likely would be say 85%, which would reduce that requirement to 356 CFM.

 

Forced induction engines, WOULD, however, at certain RPM have V/E approaching 100%, which would mean a required airflow slightly greater than what this formula is set up for.

 

In other words, in an LQ1 running at 7,000 RPM, I'd be very surprised if the intake system the car was built with would be incapable of flowing 356 CFM, as is from the factory.

 

 

//www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/volumetric_efficiency.htm

"For a known engine displacement and RPM, you can calculate the engine airflow at 100% VE, in sea-level-standard-day cubic feet per minute (scfm) as follows:

100% VE AIRFLOW (scfm) = DISPLACEMENT (ci) x RPM / 3456

 

(Equation 3)

Using that equation to evaluate a 540 cubic-inch engine operating 2700 RPM reveals that, at 100% VE, the engine will flow 422 SCFM."

Edited September 5, 2014 by Galaxie500XL

[runt]

John...what intake are you running on your Camaro?

[ChibiBlackSheep]

John...what intake are you running on your Camaro?

 

His example looks like the ColdAirInductions.com version, which is the same one I'm running on my Camaro as well.

[skitchin]

John...what intake are you running on your Camaro?

 

Chibi was correct, it's from Cold Air Inductions Inc. The Camaro model looks like this, bit more volume:

 

The bottom of the box creates a seal with the wheel well.

 

I also have a scoop that pulls air from my lower air dam and directs it to the bottom of the intake box.

[runt]

I have yet to figure out why there aren't more intakes made for the 04+. I know there were some differences but holy crap. And while I realize I can get away with a cone and a small pipe I prefer the look for a box like that.

[94 olds vert]

I didnt want an open cone for 2 reasons the first being looks and the second I thought an open cone would get dirtier faster. Especially since I live on a dirt road.