Jon89le Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Well im debating which to do. I currently have a modded 3.1 with Level 10 tranny. My plans were to do a ported top end swap and run a turbo on it. Since the tranny would be done, id only have to worry about cranking more power outa the motor. But now i started thinking about the 3800 swap. Which would you guys do? If i did the 3800 swap id probably spend about $2000. I figure about up to a grand for the swap and another grand in internal and external engine mods. Would it cost more than 1grand to swap that motor? I figure with a grand in mods it will put me reasonably in the mid 13s. Would it be more cost efficient to do an upgraded turbo on my 3.1? I noticed some of the guys with modded 3.1s run high 13s but is that with the stock T25? I am looking for as much information as possible. All opinions are welcomed as well as questions. Just as a regroup, here are the main questions: 1) $1000 plus 3800 S/C Swap or 2) $2000 for Turbo upgrade on 3.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99RegalGS Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 I would recomend the S/C 3800. It has a big aftermarket and it's still growing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 L67 for boat anchor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burning Rom Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 L67 for boat anchor! lol..is that your new campaign? Where do I vote? It's a horse a piece. The S/C motor will give you lots of low-end torque but till start to fall behind when it gets higher in the RPMs. The turbo won't have quite so much power off the line, but once the turbo spools other cars better steer clear! If you go with the L67, you will need to change out trannies. It is true that you do have a level 10 rebuild, but the 4T65-HD is a much better transmission for the application. Personally, I believe turbo motors have more potential. The problem is there isn't a lot of aftermarket for the 3.1. So getting speed out of them isn't as easy as swap pully...bolt on this...bolt on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon89le Posted November 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Well i wouldnt use my tranny on the 3.8. I would only use it for the 3.1. Would i really have to worry about an aftermarket on the 3.1 though? The engine mods and and porting can be purchased. The only problem i might have with the turbo is the flange. But theres a machine shop in one of my engineering buildings where i can have them assemble me the piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 L67 for boat anchor! lol..is that your new campaign? Where do I vote? Thats the 60* V6 campaign. You can vote anywhere, just post "L67 for boat anchor" anytime someone mentions swapping it in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 the 3.1 has more aftermarket than the 3800. It just doesn't have as many people messing with them cause they are in older cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon89le Posted November 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Well i think i know where Ben stands on the issue... 3800 right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 yeah right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boostnawd Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 why does the l67 run out of breath in high rpms? shitty flowing heads? or is the SC a little on the small side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay3800 Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 I think the Turbo 3.1 has more performance potential than the 3800 S/C. If I remember correctly, I've heard that with a few computer mods, far higher boost levels can be attained over stock pushing the HP way above the 205 stock rating. In general, there is far more power to be had with only minor mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 I think the Turbo 3.1 has more performance potential than the 3800 S/C. If I remember correctly, I've heard that with a few computer mods, far higher boost levels can be attained over stock pushing the HP way above the 205 stock rating. In general, there is far more power to be had with only minor mods. it doesn't really have more persay...hell anything can more "potential"...it's just the fact that nobody(or few..Curtis' cavalier w/ the TGP motor is bitching and probably the fastest car w/ a TGP motor..but he's highly modded and could probably easily make it faster) has went all out w/ a TGP..*yet*..a huge ass turbo and every other mod you could do for one would surely help.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay3800 Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Maybe "potential" was the wrong word to use as any engine really has no more potential than another. Its really limited to how much money you are willing to invest. I've just heard that it is easier to exceed stock HP with the T3.1 than with the S/C 3800. Of course, I've never owned either (unfortunately ), so I can't say for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burning Rom Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 why does the l67 run out of breath in high rpms? shitty flowing heads? or is the SC a little on the small side? That's part of it. The supercharger also creates a lot of heat directly over the intake, and can cause some ignition issues. That's why the IC helps in the long run. You also run into some problems in the high RPMs due to the fact that the crankshaft has to turn the supercharger. And I guess potential was the wrong word to use :oops: It's true that any motor has great potential. It's just that some motors require a large amount of financial investment to reach that potential. Others do not require as much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay3800 Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 It's true that any motor has great potential. It's just that some motors require a large amount of financial investment to reach that potential. Others do not require as much... Exactly. Thats the point I was trying to make about the T3.1...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannymik Posted November 15, 2003 Report Share Posted November 15, 2003 hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm.....I really want to get my hands on a TGP!!! Its good to know that there is one for sale only 30-40 minutes from my house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LS Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 As a 3.8 man I still have to say build your 3.1T It will be easier. There is enought stuff out there for the 31T to easily make it work right. The L67 "swap" seems to get really involved. You need the HD tranny, then if you build anymore into the engine you'll still need to spend more to build the HD tranny, they still cant take continous pounding from the torque king. $1000 ? Your dreamin, everyone I know spends closer to 1800+ just for the engine/tranny. Then you need the harness & brain, then you need to get it wired up right. Then you have engine mount issues. Then there may be half shaft issues, not sure on W bodys but the gen 1 FWD H body guys have halfshaft issues. Then when your done and got it goin 120 or so you'll quickly realize now you need real brakes Oh and your front springs will be a little light for the extra poundage. As far as running out of steam at 6000 RPM I dont know where anyones heard that but our car pulls hard with a steady building clear up to shift. It does not fall on its face. It may not go crazy like a turbo car will once its spooled up but its really awsome how it just keeps pulling harder and harder the faster it revs. The NA 3800's fall on their face at 48-5200 because ? ? camshaft ? porting ? ECM fuel delivery ? I dont really know but that is true - a NA 3.8 is good for torque and should shift earlier than they do. The L67 is a well engineered and extremely efficient and does not have shitty flowing heads or a too small SC. It is built to produce what it does and be reliable and deal with normal driving situations better than a turbo can. It can be built for more flow and more cam or lift just like any engine and the Eaton M90 is good for 400hp so they say. I dont know if anyone got to that 400 yet though. Im a bit of a purest and like to see owners do engine build ups from what came in their cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon89le Posted November 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Alright, well i think im going to go with putting the turbo on my car. I just got this book by Corky Bell called Maximum Bosst which was recommended by another person on here in another thread so hopefully this book will show me which turbo/components i should use. I am looking for something that will make peak efficiency at around 3-4000rpms. So while im learning from this book, if anyone has any ideas for turbos, housings, compressor sizes, etc. please let me know. Thanks again everyone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 89regal31 Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 i think i would go with the 3800 swap, building a 3.1 isnt hard but for the money you spend your really not gaining that much. i have gone through three 3.1 in my regal so far and the bottom ends seem to fail at high rpms, hopefulley the 3800 will not come apart like the other 3.1. i dont believe you need a 4t65e tranny either, the 4t60 and 4t65e both came behind the 3800 and have held up well as long as you keep them cool, adding another cooler will help. in the long run i think the 3800 will outperform a 3.1. dont get mad just another opinion from someone who plays around with both the 60 and 90 degree motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaroonRegal Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 If your budget is $2000, converting your 3.1 into a 3.1T is the way to go. The 3800's aftermarket is expensive, and you don't already have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon89le Posted November 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Like i said, all opinions are welcome . My budget will be between 2 and 3 grand. If i do my 3.1 all that money will go into the turbo system mainly which i guess ill spend around 1500-2000 on and the rest will go towards the topend swap. The exhaust and computer system are a seperate budget since those will be done now. The way im starting to see it is for the amount that i will spend on just getting the 3800 components, ill be able to add a turbo and mod it to go a bit faster i think. My biggest thing now is the type/size of the turbo to go with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZMonte Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 L67 for boat anchor! well i have a 3.1L Turbo, 3.4L DOHC (Turbo), and a L67 (swap in my lumina). flat out the L67 is much faster then ANY of the rest of my cars. and i have only done 5 basic bolt ons. next season i am hoping to brake into the 12's...and by the end of the season brake into the 11's in 5800ft altitude. RedZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZMonte Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm.....I really want to get my hands on a TGP!!! Its good to know that there is one for sale only 30-40 minutes from my house. mines for sale.. ton of upgrades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannymik Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 tell a little about it...and how do you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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