tornado_735 Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 This is a completely random idea I had while talking to Mike last night. I know it's far from ideal, and probably very stupid, but it's just an idea. Being as self sufficient as possible, I am always thinking of different contingencies. I know that the engine currently in the GTP is a top swapped L26 (Mike told me last night) with a horrible bottom end knock. Say there is a failure of every positive outcome that is possible: Seller does not refund, the block of the L67 is unsalvageable, Mike runs out of monies, etc, etc. Lets say the crankshaft of the L67 is in good shape. What is the chance that that crank will swap into the block of the L26? From the most reliable source on the innarwebz (wikipedia) the major difference between the S2 and S3 was an aluminum intake and stronger connecting rods. My idea was this: Swap the L67 crank into the current L26, throw new main and rod bearing in, new rear and main seals, and see what happens. While the L26 is out, you can throw that new cam in (if it's compatible). Like I said, this is far from ideal, but it's just an idea I had. Feel free to shoot it out of the sky if so desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 Aaron may be onto something, the engine in the GTP now has 60k miles on it or somewhere around there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted to eaton Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 the series 3 block is stamped "Series 2" Just to put some more light on the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFehl Posted September 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2012 Machine shop confirmed my fears this afternoon. This engine is toast. Two of the cylinders are pretty much destroyed with rust, it seeped past the piston rings. He also says the engine seems to be binding up at the same spot in the revolution every time he turns it over. Recommends rebuild, total estimated cost: $1500. So... no. And I'm pissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuminaPower92 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 As you should be. I'm sorry to see a nice guy like you Mike, getting ripped off. Nobody deserves that, especially a fellow W Enthusiast. I would get that person @ NAPA to state the findings in writing, and pay this person a visit with the paper weight. Money back is definitely in order if not something. At least if the person was a good human being. Not alot out there. That aside, would you be rebuilding the bottom end on an engine while you have one apart, or are you looking to throw one back in there to get running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I'll agree with Brian here, I hate to see ya get screwed over. All I can is I'm so glad we found this before we put it in the car and had a rust scrub down of the entire engine, this hurts but man after gaskets, fluids everything else that would nearly double the loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Man that blows. There is at least a dozen l36 and 4 l67s in the yard by me for less than $200 with a warranty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFehl Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 As you should be. I'm sorry to see a nice guy like you Mike, getting ripped off. Nobody deserves that, especially a fellow W Enthusiast. I would get that person @ NAPA to state the findings in writing, and pay this person a visit with the paper weight. Money back is definitely in order if not something. At least if the person was a good human being. Not alot out there. That aside, would you be rebuilding the bottom end on an engine while you have one apart, or are you looking to throw one back in there to get running? Thanks Brian. I appreciate the kind words. I am sending the joker another email as we speak, hopefully this one gets through to him. If not I'll call. I just really try to be non-confrontational. This was a bunch of bullshit. We hadn't really planned to touch the bottom end of the engine at all. We planned to do a performance cam and that was as deep as we wanted to get into it. I'll agree with Brian here, I hate to see ya get screwed over. All I can is I'm so glad we found this before we put it in the car and had a rust scrub down of the entire engine, this hurts but man after gaskets, fluids everything else that would nearly double the loss. Me too. I would not have wanted to put that pile of shit in my car and have it blowing oil all over the place. Not to mention, probably make equally horrible noises compared to the one that is in the car now. Man that blows. There is at least a dozen l36 and 4 l67s in the yard by me for less than $200 with a warranty! Must be nice. Yards around here are few and far between, and the ones that exist blow ass for the most part. There are not many options for me available right now. And for the most part on Craigslist you find this: http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/pts/3152496545.html Nunzi found a decent deal on an H body 3800 recently. He went up and heard it run and put a deposit down for me tonight. Hopefully this next engine works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Where in PA are you? Im only an hr or so from the PA border. Maybe if the next engine doesnt work out, you can stop out here and have your pick from 4 yards within an hr of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuminaPower92 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I think hes not far from Nunzi, in about Zelienople I think. Hope I spelled that right. Im winging it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFehl Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Where in PA are you? Im only an hr or so from the PA border. Maybe if the next engine doesnt work out, you can stop out here and have your pick from 4 yards within an hr of me. Kennedy Township, PA. Western suburb of Pittsburgh, still in Allegheny County. Not too far from the city at all. Also I'm not sure how far I trust the Astro. Its a little shaky, the starter has been acting funny lately too. Also, no A/C and only the driver's window works. Though I could probably haul the engine in the Outback. But then we would risk destroying the interior and I'm sure it wouldn't be the easiest thing to load with the hatch like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFehl Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I think hes not far from Nunzi, in about Zelienople I think. Hope I spelled that right. Im winging it. Nunzi lives in Zelienople, which is about 30 miles north of me straight up I-79. About a half hour-fourty minute drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuminaPower92 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Nunzi lives in Zelienople, which is about 30 miles north of me straight up I-79. About a half hour-fourty minute drive. I did spell it right! Beautiful Man. I need to hit the yard myself. I hope for the best for you Mike. Definitely keep the updates coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Yeah checked out an engine from a 99' Oldsmobile 88' 77,400 some miles. guy started it it up for me cold, started right up, sounded fine (well it was loud as he removed the catcon already) reved nice. car was in a front end collision so that is what put the car out of service. He's going to have it pulled and ready to go inside a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuminaPower92 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Outstanding. Hoping for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 I hope so as well. Hopefully this will be the ticket. Engine was nice and clean, oil was dark but not contaminated with coolant. Looks like grandma mis-judged her stopping distance. Shame seeing another H body go to the crusher in the sky, but it was at least a total base model. If the guy that sold the bunk engine turns out to be a bitch, we can at least put together a complete L67 top swap kit to help recoup some cost, hopefully make a bit on scrap from all the engines, heads, parts we will be trashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuminaPower92 Posted September 7, 2012 Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Nice. Shame about the H Body, but hopefully the powertrain will give life to a W Body. at least it was a base model? What may I ask is wrong with base models? Hand Cranks, and Manual Locks are FTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFehl Posted September 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 E-mail chain with the guy I have going right now, if anyone is interested: [TABLE=class: cf gJ][TR=class: acZ] [TD=class: gF gK][TABLE=class: cf ix] [TR] [TD]Michael Fehl [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [TD=class: gH]Sep 6 (1 day ago) [/TD] [TD=class: gH][/TD] [TD=class: gH acX] [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: acZ xD] [TD=colspan: 3][TABLE=class: cf adz] [TR] [TD=class: ady]to Chuck [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] So, not sure if you got my last emails. I dropped the engine off at the machine shop last night. The guy called me today and confirmed my worst fears. Two of the cylinders are completely fucked. Water seeped past the piston rings and rusted up the cylinders. This engine is complete junk, you had said it was running when you pulled it out of the car. Now that very well may be and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and figure you honestly didn't know the engine was as bad as it was. But the bottom line is this engine is destroyed and requires being rebuilt... $1500 that I cannot afford to spend right now. I paid $600, more than I wanted to pay for an engine that I thought was in running condition. I'm just really upset, I'm trying to be as civil as possible here. I do NOT like to throw money around, I am not a wealthy person. I hate to be this guy but I just feel like I got ripped off. Please give me an email back or give me a call when you get a chance. I am not bullshitting you here, but I feel what is fair is fair. I think you should do the right thing and at least refund some of what I paid you. $600 is more than this pile of junk was worth. Its obviously been sitting outside and has extensive water damage. The only thing worth a damn is the supercharger. Thanks, Mike [TABLE=class: cf gJ][TR=class: acZ] [TD=class: gF gK][TABLE=class: cf ix] [TR] [TD]Chuck [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [TD=class: gH]1:37 AM (20 hours ago) [/TD] [TD=class: gH][/TD] [TD=class: gH acX] [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: acZ xD] [TD=colspan: 3][TABLE=class: cf adz] [TR] [TD=class: ady]to me [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] The engine was totally complete,(prices from local junk yards for everything on the motor... Alternator $75, Starter $100, Water Pump $40, Fly Wheel $50, Heads $150, Exhaust Manifold $100 and Super Charger $500. Total=$1015 if you were to get everything separately) the cylinders were oiled so the surface rust could be honed off if needed to be. It was running when pulled from the car and it was sold as is. I have no way of knowing if it is even the motor that was sold in the pictures. Did you go look at the motor after the machine shop called to see exactly what they are telling you is true, they are a business that wants to make money. Reason I am asking is when cylinders rust you can not easily turn a motor over, and it turned over very easily and surface rust can be honed and it will be like brand new without a problem. I understand you are not wealthy person cause neither am I. With all bullshit aside what is it you would like me to do, I am not a JUNK yard that warranties what I sell, my sales are "AS IS".I know what you are saying in 2000 I bought a 1992 pick up off a car lot, I looked it all over and everything looked good, with financing and interest it was a little over $10,000 about a month after it was bought the shock broke off when I put it on the lift to fix the shock I hit the frame with a hammer and realized the frame had been undercoated very heavily and it was completely shoot. I bought it AS IS so, I was screwed and had to buy a new frame. Than to top it all off I flushed the cooling system and found that they had doped the motor to stop a leak and the heads were cracked. Let me know what you would like me to do. Thanks, Chuck [TABLE=class: cf gJ][TR=class: acZ] [TD=class: gF gK][TABLE=class: cf ix] [TR] [TD]Michael Fehl [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [TD=class: gH]9:56 PM (8 minutes ago) [/TD] [TD=class: gH][/TD] [TD=class: gH acX] [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: acZ xD] [TD=colspan: 3][TABLE=class: cf adz] [TR] [TD=class: ady]to Chuck [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Sorry I let my tone get a little bit away from me last night, I got a bit carried away, I was really upset. I do apologize for that. I realize it was not your intention to sell junk. Let me start off by saying I think you are a very hard working person and I think you really do know what you are doing (I mean that truck was really cool! Seriously, good job on that). But anyhow, you know as well as I do how difficult it is to sell things, especially used. I have a number of new, in the box ACDelco and Motorcraft parts sitting in a storage unit listed for sale on eBay. How often do a sell one? Once every couple months. Doesn't even cover what I'm paying each month on the storage unit. And I have them listed for sale for half the price of the next closest one in price I can find. Still no real luck. The heads honestly had more than surface rust. The coolant passages were very rusty and it required a lot of sanding and cleaning to get them to a respectable point. Even now, I personally will not put them on my car. They aren't up to my standards. The blower I could not sell for anywhere near $500 even if I tried. It is in great shape, that there is no doubt. But they just don't go for that much anymore. Examples: http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=5820192&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1 http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=5830120&p=2&tmode=1&smode=1 You cannot even sell the newer, more desirable (because they are more free flowing) more powerful Gen V superchargers for that: (These were stock on 3800 Series III supercharged engines.... 2004-2008 Grand Prix GTP) http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=5831107&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1 http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=5781253&p=3&tmode=1&smode=1 http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=5822078&p=3&tmode=1&smode=1 I trust the machine shop because the place I used is the same place the repair shop I work for has used for machine work for many many years. I have no reason not to trust him. He even advised me that it would be more money than he thought was worth putting into it. And my dad (who used to turn wrenches and scrap cars for a living) is telling me I'm an idiot for not hearing an engine run before I bought it. I'm not sure what proof you want. I've cleaned up the engine as best as I can at this point (that was before even taking it to the machine shop), but its currently sitting on the floor of my garage. If you want, I'll fire up the Grand Prix I was planning on putting this engine into and take a video of it running, so you can hear how badly its knocking, and I can show the engine you sold me in the same shot. And I'm not sure what you are implying, but I'll at least tell you I am a life long boy scout. Been in it since the cubs and still involved now as an assistant scoutmaster. I do not lie. I also inherently trust people until they give me a reason not to. I'm really glad we decided to pull the heads because the whole idea is that I wanted to drop this engine in and not worry about it for a long time. This car is supposed to be a toy, a weekend car. And I don't fancy tearing the engine apart again in a year when it starts burning oil like a sieve. The engine seemed to turn over pretty well when I had it on the stand in my garage. That being said, I didn't rotate it through multiple revolutions. When the machine shop had it he turned it over multiple times, and he said that it would keep binding up in the same spot and have to be forced through. At this point, Chris (my buddy that was with me when we picked the engine up) sourced another engine for me to the tune of $450. Its still in the car and he heard it run, 77,000 miles on it. He put a deposit down on it for me because right now I cannot afford that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobyDoo82 Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 You didnt tell him what you wanted to do... shoulda been like if you can refund me the $450 to buy this other motor, ill be out of your hair. Or if you're hell bent on getting the $600 back... do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFehl Posted September 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 You didnt tell him what you wanted to do... shoulda been like if you can refund me the $450 to buy this other motor, ill be out of your hair. Or if you're hell bent on getting the $600 back... do that. I'm trying to lead him to his own conclusion and get him to offer something before I ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobyDoo82 Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 If he doesn't make an offer with the very next email, make it clear what you want. Not everybody can pick up that kind of tone over the internet. He might just think you're rambling on and has no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich17 Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 You have alot more patience than I do. I wouldnt even bother emailing him. I'd be all over his front step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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