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  1. Safely Modding Your 3800 For Dummies digitaloutsider - - April 18, 2017 Overview: This guide is intended for 3800 (particularly the Supercharged Series II [L67] and Series III [L32]) owners who are new to modifying their car for performance. This document is not intended to be an all-encompassing how-to for running 11's. Within this guide, I will discuss how to safely, and rather inexpensively, modify your supercharged 3800 to pick up a few ponies as well as dispel some myths about the platform. Acknowledgements: The idea for this guide originated on GrandPrixForums in 2009 by Nick (blueguy), however, some parts of that guide have become outdated by losing various vendors, conducting better research, and finding betters ways of doing things. Much of Nick's guide is still relevant today and it's certainly worth the read when you have the time, OR if you want to go faster than the modifications in this guide allow for. Introduction: So you've decided to steal cable modify your 3800 car. Great choice! Whether you're looking to learn more about engines and performance or just want to make your way to the grocery store faster, the GM 3800 platform offers an easy and cost-effective starting point. When it debuted in 1996, the Series II 3800 offered class-leading supercharged performance. Fortunately or unfortunately, the rest of the world kept moving, and in the days of 300 horsepower minivans, 240 ponies doesn't seem as impressive anymore, especially considering we have a supercharger bolted on. Good thing we're only a few clicks away from a lot of extra power being delivered right to our door. I would like to layout a very specific caveat: The transmission. The GM 4T65E was used in all Supercharged 3800 applications from 1997 to 2007. It was also bolted to everything from 170 HP 3100s all the way up to 300 HP LS4 V8s with very little overall differences. This, of course, means that GM's bean counters were in full effect in regards to the design of this transmission, and there were cost cutting measures taken. The internals of the 4T65E bolted to your 3800 are largely no different than the ones in a base Buick Century. Towards that end, it's best to just accept now that the more you modify your car, the greater your risk of breaking your transmission are. Fortunately, if you're serious about going fast, high performance transmission builds can be purchased from vendors like Triple Edge Performance. I would recommend that one of your first modifications be a transmission cooler. I would also recommend the medium shift kit as outlined in this guide, or the TransGo shift kit. Before you mod: You need to fix everything wrong with your car before you modify it. You need to fix everything wrong with your car before you modify it. You need to fix everything wrong with your car before you modify it. You'd think that this guidance would be self-evident, but after being on the various W-body/3800 forums and Facebook groups over the last 15 years, I'm sorry to tell you that it is not. Before you change ANYTHING to alter the performance of your car, you need to be sure that it's in good working order. Let's be honest, the newest supercharged 3800 car is 10 years old now, the oldest is over 20.. most of them are going to be in various states of disrepair. You need to, at the very least, perform a basic tune-up and catch up on years of deferred maintenance. Nick actually outlined this very well in his original guide, so I will copy it mostly verbatim here. Start here: Lower intake manifold gaskets and coolant elbows if they haven't been done (if you aren't 100% sure, just do them). New spark plugs and wires. Oil change, preferably switch to synthetic and a quality filter. Fuel filter. Coolant Flush. There is no compelling reason to move away from Dexcool, don't bother doing it. Transmission fluid and filter. Dexron VI or Alison TES-389 compliant ONLY. Generally need ~7 quarts for a pan drop. 100k+ mile engines: Change the supercharger oil. Do not use ANYTHING other than the proper S/C oil from the dealer. S/C and Serpentine belts. Once all of that is taken care of, you can start to move into the next major step.. Scanning: The basis for everything we do with performance mods will center around scanning the car and knowing what's going on inside. If you don't have a scantool that can read Knock Retard, do not modify your car. It's as simple as that. I don't care what ZZP told you, I don't care what your buddy says, I don't care what some guy on Facebook posted; if you don't have a scantool that can read Knock Retard, do not modify your car. Knock Retard, or KR, happens when the PCM detects predetonation (knock) and pulls timing to prevent engine damage. Your goal is to have 0 degrees of KR all the time. People will tell you that there's a "safe level" of KR, and on a stock car, sure, there might be. But as you start increasing boost and power, even small amounts of KR can bring our old pal Chippy the Piston to visit. Like most things about this platform, it's cheap and easy to scan. If you own an Android phone or tablet, the lowest cost of entry is to buy a BAFX Bluetooth OBD-II adapter and Torque Pro. iOS users can purchase OBD Fusion, and the website lists all compatible adapters. Cheap Android devices are getting so inexpensive that you could probably pick one up from eBay and just keep it in the car all the time to use with Torque. If you've scanned and everything looks kosher, it's probably safe to start throwing some mods at the car. The basics: Intake. The first mod most owners do is an intake. And why wouldn't you? It's a great first step because it frees up a little power, but more importantly it sounds awesome. Supercharger whine is cooler than going fast, anyway. Really though, I'd start here. It's cheap. You don't need to spend hundreds of dollars on an intake, but I also don't recommend just plopping a cone on the end of the throttle body. For 99-05 L67, go buy 4" PVC pipe from Home Depot along with a cone air filter (for 97-98 L67, go buy the newer F-duct and do all the following stuff). Remove the factory airbox. Cut the PVC pipe to the proper length. You want to slide the pipe far enough in the F-duct (the rubber coupler that attaches to the throttle body) to bypass the accordion folds. Have the filter as far into the corner of the engine bay as you can so it gets the coolest air possible. You can get a PCM tray out of a 90's S-Series Blazer/Jimmy/whatever if you want to secure it to the car. I have used foam pipe wrap (like what goes around residential HVAC lines) to put around and under the PCM to prevent it from being banged around. For 04-07 L32 Grand Prix, the same pretty much applies, but you'll be attaching the pipe to the MAF tube. If you like to spend a lot of money, CAIs are available from various manufacturers including ZZP, Cold Air Inductions, and others. Exhaust. What goes in must come out, right? Unfortunately the stock exhaust, especially on the L67 cars, is awful. The front manifolds have casting artifacts throughout and the ports are often uneven in diameter. Things get worse once you leave the manifolds as the factory downpipe is double walled, which reduces the ID down to 2.5" and there's an insanely stupid "U-bend" in the pipe where the rear O2 sensor installs. GM removed their cranium from their anus and the L32 cars lack the U-bend, but still have the same 2.5" piping. Before ANY pulley drop, the factory downpipe should be removed. There are two ways to go about doing this: ZZP bolt-in downpipe. If you're keeping the stock catback (which is generally good to 300 WHP), select the 3" DP and 2.5" flange exit. If you're having an exhaust shop weld up a full 3" exhaust, select the 3" DP with 3" exit or exit flange depending on how you want it. Do not buy the 2.5" downpipe for a supercharged application. It's up to you whether or not you want to buy a catted version, but be aware that not having a cat will trigger a check engine lamp. The ZZP downpipe can be used standalone or mated to a.. ZZP Powerlog. ZZP offers two Powerlogs, one for the front, and one for the rear. Think of these as the most extreme form of ported exhaust manifolds you can buy, but better. If you're not going totally insane, a front Powerlog and downpipe is a great place to start. It removes both the restrictive front manifold and U-bend. You can reasonably expect to drop a couple of degrees in KR from these two alone. If you want to free the exhaust up more, ZZP also offers a rear Powerlog, and with both logs combined with the downpipe, you get a very reasonable facsimile to headers.. without the fitment issues. Yes, it's kind of pricy to do it this way, but it also just bolts together and works. Headers. Once upon a time, there were a lot of vendors peddling their own version of 3800 headers. You had SLP, Thrasher/TOGs, Pacesetters.. today the market is a lot smaller. Your primary players are ZZP, Speed Daddy, and OBX. First up, the ZZP headers. Downside: they're very expensive. Upside: they "just work" and fit, but for that price they ought to. The most popular headers available for the W-body/3800 are Speed Daddy headers off of eBay. The big upside? They're cheap and they're based on (ripped off) SLP's design. $210 for a full set of headers shipped right to your door. The downside is that they don't fit perfect for everybody. Some people, particularly Regal owners, get stuck having to find creative ways to bash the firewall into make the O2 sensor fit. Others run these with no problem at all. If you don't want to spend tons of cash on exhaust and don't mind working a little to make them perfect, the SD's are a great choice. Be sure to throw away every gasket and clamp in the box. Buy a better flange gasket and use band clamps. It's also likely that the flex section will blow out at some point. Replace it and it's good to go. The last major manufacturer is OBX. They're ripoff Pacesetters. Real Pacesetters were bad enough.. don't buy these. Thermostat. You're going to see a lot of people with a lot of opinions when it comes to thermostats. In my opinion, 160 degree t-stats are just too cold. You don't get any heat in the winter, and 2001+ cars will throw a check engine lamp for coolant temp under regulated temperature. Your best bet is a quality 180 degree thermostat, with a small hole drilled in it to make bleeding easier. Tune. One of the best ways to wake a car up and eliminate KR is to tune it. Factory tunes are conservative and are intended to make the car work in a wide variety of driving situations, no matter what weather, what time of year, what elevation, etc. Performance tunes are meant for going fast. Like most things we've talked about, you have a few options here: Canned Tune. Canned tunes, or "mail order" tunes are generic performance tunes that are provided to the customer via shipping a PCM (Powertrain Control Module) back and forth to the vendor. These are generally not tuned specifically for you and will never be as good as an in-car street or dyno tune. That being said, they can be a good place to start and might even make sense for someone who is going to stick with only minor mods. You can buy tunes from Overkill, INTENSE, and ZZP. Keep in mind that the PCM is really at the heart of your performance build.. I would certainly do your own research before you decide to buy from a vendor. Google is your friend and these cars are VERY well documented. Tuner. You've got two choices here, HPTuners or DHP. HPTuners is a full vehicle tuning and scanning suite that works on a LOT of different GM, Ford, and Chrysler vehicles, not just our 3800 cars. The base VCM Suite offers 8 vehicle credits, which is enough for 4 different 3800 cars. If you're serious about tuning, you probably can't go wrong with HPT.. unfortunately it's pricey: $500 for the standard version, $650 for the "professional" version. Supports up to 2007. DHP or Digital Horsepower/PowrTuner is a now-depreciated tuning and scanning suite. DHP debuted in the mid 2000's and was abandoned by 2011 or so. While that means there's no official support, it also means it has a relatively low cost of entry. You can usually find used DHP interfaces for around $250 in the various 3800/W-body classifieds. Combined with TinyTuner, DHP still offers a compelling selection of options and great 3800 tuning capabilities. 97-04 cars only. Pulley. There's a reason why this section is at the end. A pulley drop should never be your first modification. Yes, a smaller pulley means more boost, but more boost out of an M90 also means more heat. More heat means more knock. If you haven't done the proper supporting mods first, Chippy the Piston will be making a visit to your engine. Assuming you've got a strong running stock car, you've freed up the intake and exhaust, and you've scanned throughly ensuring you have no KR, you're safe to drop a pulley. Avoid the thought process where smaller pulley = moar better. That isn't true. With the right combination of tuning and supporting mods, a car with a bigger pulley can outperform one with a smaller pulley and no/poorly executed mods. You have two options for changing pulley sizes. You can buy either a press-on pulley, which requires a special tool remove AND install or an MPS hub. An MPS hub allows you to bolt on different pulleys with just the use of an allen wrench. If you plan on doing more mods in the future, an MPS hub is probably the best deal. You can buy them new from INTENSE and ZZP for about $100. Each MPS kit comes with one pulley. No matter whether you go with an MPS or Press-on, a SUPERCHARGER PULLEY REMOVAL TOOL MUST BE USED. DO NOT USE ANY OTHER TYPE OF PULLEY PULLER ON YOUR SUPERCHARGER. The following is a list of pulleys that are "generally regarded as safe" with the appropriate mods: Generation 3 M90 (L67): 3.6" pulley - A great starting point for a car with minimal mods, such as maybe just a downpipe and intake. 3.5" pulley - Good choice for an intake, front powerlog, and downpipe. 3.4" pulley - Consider the 3.4" if you're running an intake, full headers, and a tune. You should also consider a cooler spark plug, such as the Autolite 104. Generation V M90 (L32, 04+ GP): 3.6" pulley - The defacto "safe" L32 pulley if you don't have lots of modifications. You should at least have a 3" downpipe. Preferably a front Powerlog. 3.5" pulley - If you have headers (or F&R Plog + DP) and a tune, a 3.5" pulley can be a good fit for the L32 cars. 3.4" pulley - All of the above, plus 1.9 rockers. Advanced Modding considerations: As stated earlier in this guide, my primary goal is to give novice 3800 owners a good starting point to begin modifying their car. In my honest opinion, once you start dropping below 3.4" pulleys and headers, you really need to have a good mental grasp on the work that you're doing. At that point, you should NOT be relying on a guide to tell you how to mod your car. You need to understand tuning and be able to change your own PCM around without relying on canned tunes. That being said, I will BRIEFLY talk about a few of the more advanced modifications available to you once you feel more confident in your abilities. E85. E85 is race fuel on a budget. Not only are you getting 105 octane out of the box, you're getting the added benefit of ethanol cooling the intake charge. If you live in an area with easy availability to E85 and you're comfortable with tuning, you might want to move this modification up a little in your list. E85 suppresses knock and allows for much smaller pulleys and more advanced timing. When it comes to bang-for-the-buck, I'm not sure you can do any better. You will NEED a fuel pump rewire kit, bigger injectors, and a tune. Some people will tell you that you can get away with just dropping in 42.5 lbs injectors and throwing in a tank of E85 on the stock tune. That's partially right.. E85 requires 30% more fuel, and those injectors are approximately 30% bigger. Unfortunately, that does not account for other tuning that is required to prevent hard cold starts and other drivability issues. 42.5s will likely be too small of an injector if you plan on seriously modding (sub 3.2" pullies, cam, etc). If you're moving to E85 for performance, start with the 60 lbs Siemens/Deka injectors. Keep in mind that your gas mileage WILL suffer. If you can't get E85 easily, your next best bet is an.. Intercooler. The next bang-for-the-buck advanced mod would be an intercooler. Let's face it, the M90s just aren't efficient superchargers when you start spinning them faster than they were originally designed for. The incredibly hot intake charge promotes knock and kills power. If you're serious about performance, and you can't get E85, you need an intercooler. Intercoolers are pricey, but give you the ultimate flexibility with pulleys, tunes, and fuel options. You don't need to worry about straying too far from an E85 station when you're running an IC. You can buy intercooler kits or piece your own together. Ed makes some great phenolic core ICs, which are available here. If you're going to piece a kit together, start with his core. Edit: GrandPrixForums is down for now. Ed's store eBay store is available here. Rockers. High-ratio rockers can be an easier alternative to a mild cam. You won't get as big of gains out of them (since you're only altering the cam lift, not duration, overlap, etc.). Stock rockers are 1.6:1 ratio. The higher the ratio, the more valve lift the rockers add. The ratio of the rockers determines that lift. For example, with a set of 1.9 ratio rockers, the rocker will move 1.9 times the lift of the cam. Adding higher ratio rockers not only increases power out of the box, you're also generally able to run smaller SC pullies and add timing as the engine becomes more efficient at moving air in and out. Deciding on rockers really depends on your future modding considerations. If you plan on a cam, don't bother with rockers; unless you're running a VERY small ratio (like 1.65:1 or 1.7:1), you're not going to be able to pair different ratio rockers and a cam. You will need to upgrade your valve springs when running higher ratio rockers (and let's be honest, your engine probably has well over 100k miles. It's time to do it anyway). It's recommended that you use GM L76/L92 valve springs (GM PN#12589774) and retainers (GM PN#10166344). While you have the springs out, go ahead and change the valve stem seals. You can reuse your stock keepers/locks. Camshaft upgrades are well beyond the scope of this guide. Fortunately, these cars are so well documented it's usually pretty easy to find what you need by searching Google. Keep in mind that mild cams such as the VS and S1X need much less work to get running than more wild cams like the XPZ or S3. Conclusion: Hopefully I've helped to remove a lot of the mystery around modding these cars. The 3800 platform is simple, reliable, and cheap. It's a great way for novice tuners and builders to cut their teeth before moving onto bigger and better things. If you can think of any additional information you would like here, or if I missed something, or if you think I'm a moron, feel free to comment below. I'd like to hear your feedback!
  2. This has been mentioned but never really discussed. A straight answer hasn't really been provided. I'm writing this for my Jaguar, but I think it has plenty of merit with our cars as well since many people install transmission coolers. There are 3 possible scenarios here. 1. Use the built-in transmission cooler in the radiator 2. Route the transmission cooler lines from the radiator, to the aux trans cooler, and back to the trans 3. Bypass the radiator and go straight to the aux trans cooler Obviously, we know that our transmissions heat up to the point where the stock radiator is not enough to cool them. Buck reported that under heavy driving, his 05 GTP's 4T65E-HD would hit 260 degrees F. We also know that heat kills transmissions, and that temperature is rather high. Therefore, it can be assumed that the stock radiator is insufficient in cooling the transmission. This is primarily because it cannot cool the transmission below what the temperature of the radiator is, which during a typical summer day will sit nicely around 190 degrees F. IIRC, our w-bodies won't switch on the primary fan until the temperature reaches 235 degrees F. Correct me if I'm wrong here. The transmission will only get hotter than that. If one routes the transmission cooler lines through the radiator and then to the aux trans cooler, the radiator does some slight bit of cooling, and the transmission cooler does the bulk of the cooling thereafter. In my experiences, with a large transmission cooler flush mounted to the condenser, the engine could be running at even 220 degrees F, and the transmission will stay steady at 190 degrees, so the cooler is obviously making a big difference. Obviously its less than ideal to flush mount the transmission cooler, and I'm working on that. My concern with this approach is that the transmission can potentially be cooler using only the aux transmission cooler, which brings me to my next point. How cold is too cold? I've read that someone called valvoline to ask them that question, and the response was flat out "30 degrees F." I'm not sure how much validity there is to that claim, since I've also heard from around here that you can run a transmission too cold. Well how cold is too cold? I don't want to hear guesses here, but rather constructive feedback. Would it be detrimental to bypass the radiator entirely and have the aux trans cooler take care of all of the cooling? Has anyone done this and reported back on their temperature readings in different conditions? Another thing to consider with this approach is that the car itself will run cooler as a result of not having the heat of the transmission lines going through it. In regard to the aux trans cooler, I'm referring heavy duty coolers in the $50-$60 range, built for RV's.
  3. 3.4 DOHC --- complete with sub frame & steering rack --$450
  4. After sifting through 20+ pages of search results, I thought we could all post any production numbers we have in one spot, to make future searching easier (especially since there aren't too many websites that have this information). I DON'T HAVE ALL THE NUMBERS! This is a collaborative thing; everyone just post the info that they have here for everyone else to see! So, here's what I've got: Total 1995 Grand Prix: 131,835 Total Grand Prix Coupes: 58,896 Total Coupes with B4S GTP Package: 9,256 Total Coupes in 41U Black: 8,230 And from this info, my *ESTIMATE* of black '95 GTPs: 1,288. To get numbers on your car: Grand Prix: Regal: Lumina/Monte: Cutlass: Make sure you have your VIN handy.
  5. Since putting the engine back in my '92 GTP my DIC is not getting any fuel data. Instant econ is 0 and it's constantly telling me to check fuel. It's done this before but usually it comes back after a day or two, but not this time. Suggestions? Thanks, DD
  6. So I have a 1995 gtp but the unibody is really rough I have cut out and fixed alot but it's just a matter of time I was wondering if I could use the underneath of another 94-96 gp that was clean to swap. Yes I could just swap motor but the Vin wouldn't be a gtp andymore. Can it be done?
  7. Hello all. Problems with subject vehicle are detailed here: And so it's time. Pics will follow, it's blue black with the special spoiler and a working sunroof. On the one hand, most of the miles were easy - I had a long commute, didn't drive it hard, I kept up with Amsoil and what-not, including changeout in the supercharger. LIM gasket done (and upper and valve cover while you're at it...) at about 120K. K & M air filter, Engine sounds good, cruise still works, air conditioner's been done (converted to the new stuff) and still works; virtually no wear on anything inside but the drivers' seat. Original embroidered mat on passenger side, why I didn't keep the driver's side mat aside I'll never know - wore a hole in it an my wife pitched it. Tires are Goodyear Tripletread new just before last winter - I have the Sam's Club paperwork. Amsoil oil change 7 wks ago. If I could get a cheap tranny and do the work, it'd be on the road again, but that's over my head (in more ways than one - and I don't have a lift). I have the title here as well as the original window sticker & all paperwork. On the other hand, the tranny is probably gone, or at least the lock-up converter, no problem moving it low speed around the house at least. The paint is hard and the quarter panels have the usual rust - driver's side is barely hanging on. TCS doesn't worked, radio clock light is out, and the gas gauge hasn't worked for a while,(thought the gas mileage computer and "fuel used", oil life calculation, range & boost gauge work fine); both key fobs got lost. If I trade it in, it's headed to the auction. I'd rather see it go to one of y'all for parts or project. Still, UI'd consider the car immobile, or you'd better not have far to go. I hope someone can use it. I really don't have any idea how much to ask for it. I just put $400+ into the tires last year! Life... I have more pics but let's see what you think of these.
  8. Hey there, new to the forums, but on pretty much every facebook page I can find for GP/3800/ W Body stuff. I have an 03 Limited Edition I call Midnight, not too many performance mods, looking for a catback exhaust setup atm though. Otherwise just have cosmetics done, black powdercoated rims, Pontiac mudflaps, roof rails, new LED tails, drilled and slotted rotors, painted red calipers. Definitely plan on keeping this car for a while though, it's spoiled me with all its features.
  9. I have some parts for sale that I took off of my black 4-door 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Special Edition before junking it. I may have additional parts I will list as I come across them, but the parts I currently have ready to go are listed below (followed by pics). *There are no "dibs", as I do not hold parts for anyone. First to pay for the part gets it.* If you are serious about buying, or are looking to get more than one item, there is some room to talk on pricing, but please do not bother with lowball offers. Payment can be cash in person, or as a gift payment through PayPal in advance. I would prefer not to ship the bigger pieces, so locals will have first crack/preference on those. I live in the Naperville/East Aurora area (Illinois) and am willing to meet with someone up to the Warrenville, Lisle, West Chicago, etc. area, but no further. If you have any questions, please PM me. SPECIAL EDITION SPECIFIC PARTS Spoiler (without trunk lid) - $100 FIRM This is the same spoiler found on the 2000 Daytona 500 and 40th Anniversary Editions. Clear coat peeling badly on spoiler, but in otherwise solid shape. NO TRUNK LID! *SOLD* Special Edition roof rails/fences - $150 Again, same as found on the 2000 Daytona 500 and 40th Anniversary Editions. In pretty solid overall condition. Also fits the Monte Carlo! *SOLD* Special Edition 2-tone interior - $250 2-tone charcoal/graphite and light gray. Includes front passenger seat, both parts of back seat, all 4 door panels (sedan) and gray dash and center console trim pieces. The driver's seat was rough, so I did not keep it. The rest is in decent shape. REGULAR GP/GTP PARTS Heads-up display (HUD) - $80 Includes HUD unit, dash cover and switches; wire harnesses can be included if needed. *SOLD* Driver Info Center (DIC) - $40 Works perfectly. *SOLD* Factory 7-band EQ CD Player - $30 Some of the lights stopped working after I opened up the faceplate to swap display light bulbs, but the display works and it plays CDs without a problem. *SOLD* Front strut tower bar - $15/each *only 1 left* - These are the same bars found on the Regal GS and Monte Carlo SS, as well as the GMPP handling kit upgrade. Can be used on front or rear. There's a little bit of rust where the bolts were, but they're in decent overall shape. *SOLD* GMPP font & rear sway bar kit - $130 Only about 1000 miles on these. This upgrades the front sway bar to 34mm. The ends of the stock hollow sway bars are known for rusting out and breaking off. If you have to replace it anyway, might as well upgrade! Comes with end links and bushings. *SOLD* ZZP 3" catted bolt-in downpipe - $200 This is 100% brand new. I bought it several years ago and never installed it. It is currently $220+ shipping on ZZP's site to configure a downpipe this way, so you can save a decent chunk of change.
  10. Hey all, New to forum and not 100% sure how this "Posting" business works, but here goes. Does anybody know why my 95 LQ1 GP does not have a MAP sensor? May sound like a total noob question but I've seen several images of an LQ1 intake diagram and they all show MAP.
  11. I've got a '95 Olds Cutlass Supreme with an L67. I have cooling fans from a 2000 GTP on it; however, I'm a bit baffled about the way they operate. Both fans run on the low-speed setting. On the high speed setting, only the fan on the passenger's side runs. Is this correct? I checked the voltage on the driver's side fan motor, and it drops to 0 when on the high speed setting. It seems like both fans should run on the high speed setting to me (although I do not know the way the system works). I have had cooling problems with this thing since I put it together last August. It stays cool as long as it's not idling still for >20-30 min. I just replaced the original 3.1 radiator with a radiator with 3 additional rows (when counting vertically). The core of my original radiator was 34 rows tall, while the newly installed one was 37. The radiator shop I purchased the radiator from claims that these 3 additional rows provide the same cooling efficiency with the stock 5/8 inch core width as a radiator with the stock number of vertical rows (34) with a 1 inch core width. This new radiator did help the problem, but I would still rather have both fans running on the high speed setting. That would ameliorate it completely I think. Have you guys with stock early 2000s GTPs observed the way the fans work? Thanks, Andy
  12. Hey All! My name is Robert aka Daermos and i am not only new to the site but to W-Body. I have been on the look out for a new set of wheels and had a friend show me the one that i now own. I picked up 2002 Grand Prix GTP and so far i can say that i love it. I have attached some files and am looking forward to doing some basic mods!
  13. Was recommended to this site as a good place for a '93 GTP LQ1/284 (and if you understood that I've come to the right place). Just bought one that is straight and rustfree (central Florida rust free that is, floorboards are smooth). Does need some cosmetics. Did say I'd never buy another black car but never say never. Have been around cars for a long time and from 1978 to 2012 was GM only but could not resist a tow car with a DOHC 6, 4 wheel disk brakes, all independent suspension and FI. Then the Fiero market dried up and bought a Crossfire (OHC-6) with a six speed. Chrysler made in Germany. However that leaves the two Reattas (coupe and 'vert) and the '70 Judge (4-speed) and all have factory AC So have the complete (two volumes and supplement) service manual coming but need a pair of grilles and a rebuild kit for the shifter (same as a Fiero ?) Any suggestions ?
  14. I have for sale 2 sets of rims, both mounted and balanced with tires, one set of all seasons and one set of winters. Why do I have such a dearth of gtp wheels and tires? My car was totalled in an accident involving me losing total steering response. Luckily me and the tires made it out unscathed. The summers are Continental true contacts, mounted to 5 spoke chrome 1998 pontiac grand prix wheels. These tires were purchased in april, and driven less than 1000 km before the accident happened, proabaly at like %90+ tread life. Great daily driver tires for your gp. The tires are 225/60/r16's and the rims have a 5x115 bolt pattern. Winter tires are the same size mounted on the same style of wheel. They are durun d2009's. 2 are at 80% tread life, the other ones are at 35%. Not a huge problem, just run the 80% ones on the front wheels until they level out with the back ones. One of the winter rims has a little bit of scraping on it from a curb. The car crashed at 215000km so each set of rims probably took about half the km's, 110,000km each, 68k miles in other terms. I'm looking for $375 for the summers with rims, and $250 for the winters with rims. I'm open to all offers, but I would rather sell the tires and rims connectted. So if you're in south Calgary or know a gp driver near south Calgary who's looking for some tires, send em my way. Message me via the forums or text me at 403 826 0681 for further inquiry. Images, I know there is an in forum way to attach images, but it says max size 500kb, and each of my pictures is bigger than that. Imgur link Side note, if anyone knows a good place to sell used tires online or in Calgary I'd like to hear about it.
  15. Always been a fan of the w-body, Grand Prix GTP mainly. Currently I do not own one but that dont stop me from looking. ASE "Equipment Tech" for MoDOT, fancy word for dumbass mechanic that works for the state LOL.
  16. So this door handle chromer in the Citation X-11 group on Facebook (not much further explanation needed really...) is telling me that there were 12 TGPs actually sold in Canada and they were available through 1991 instead of the GTP. Mind you, this is the same guy that says the THM-125 3 speed used in the Grand Prix was fully electronic. Also, the Corsica came with 5x115 hubs in front and 5x100 hubs in the rear. We got to talking TGPs because he bought the drivetrain from one. He lives in Canada. It's so funny that I had to share. Total door handle chromer - a person that thinks they know everything when in reality doesn't know half as much as they think they do.
  17. Must Sell Price reduced to 5500.00 OBO. Selling for what I have in it. Hi all. I am listing this to see if there is any interest. It's a 1991 Grand Prix GTP with 5 speed manual transmission. 66 Thousand miles. Blue with gray cloth interior. Sun roof, HUD, Power windows and Locks. I am in Pa. I will post pictures as soon as I can.
  18. Hello all, I still have my 1990 TGP, been driving it off and on but it mostly sits because PMIII has been acting up. I was wondering if there is still a place you can purchase any of these parts new? I would like to get a new pressure switch for it. If any of you have a good used one laying around I would take that off your hands as well though. I plan on also replacing all the relays on it. Motor is still good and so is accumulator. With my second Gen GTP blowing up the other day I am parting it out and might as well put all my efforts into this car. Thanks for any and all input!
  19. Picked up a 98 gtp yesterday. 124k No rust! Look forward to learning from everyone
  20. I am not a fan of these and the GTP I just bought has them on, they look great and work fine they are currently on the car now and it is my daily. I am looking for $65 shipped for them, I know how much they sell for new and honestly I have had issues with them on LSx cars and they left a bad taste in my mouth. I am putting stock coil packs on. I will get pics tonight when I get home.
  21. travis


    I'm getting a supercharger for free from a 1992 not sure of the make and model but its a 3800 series I have a grand prix gtp 98 will it fit and do you know if there's anything I can do to it before I put it on to make it better or faster
  22. I have a 91 GTP 5 speed that has a couple of problems. First is that it dies if the rpms are somewhat high and I suddenly press the clutch. It basically goes from whatever rpms it was on to 0 rpms and dies. The second one is that once it dies after 2 or 3 times the engine is pretty slow cranking up and will eventually not start. Looks and sound like if the battery was dying. I have replaced the battery and starter, checked the alternator and it shows okay. What could be the problem? I'm hoping that someone here has had the same issues
  23. So as im sure a lot of you have seen on FB i have this clunk in the front of my car. The noise seems to originate on the passenger side. I happens one single time on every initial acceleration from a stop. It also happens intermittently over large bumps like gutters and speed bumps, and on rear rare occasions full lock turning.. This clunk is loud I've had a cd skip while playing once or twice Now this started right after a lot of suspension work. I replaced control arms, ball joints, swaybars, endlinks, and lowered the car. I did reuse the old struts and mounts as they were less than 30k miles and 2 years old, i also installed shorter dogbones to make sure the downpipe doesn't hit the swaybar (clunking happened before shorter dogbones so thats been ruled out). Ive had a inspection done on all the replacement part and they all seem to be installed and tightened correctly Motor mounts were replaced 2 years ago but were replaced with stock hydraulic mounts, and both cv axles are spewing grease, but both of those usually have different symptoms than what I'm experiencing. Let me know what you think Thanks Jake
  24. I bought a 93, 3.1 long block with 19,633 k from a Lumina for my 93 GTP and now I need the remaining parts such as module, etc. So if you have a bad 3.1 or know of some one please contact me. I would like to find one source with all the parts. thanks
  25. I have a 97 GTP that has had 3 different motors put in after the original started knocking. All the other three also started knocking but the second engine lasted a week, the other two not even a day. I don't know what the problem is. I don't believe all three engines were bad from the junkyard could they?. What could possibly be the problem? It's causing my mechanic too much work. And me too much waiting. I would really appreciate any feedback as to what the problem could be.
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