eclipse5302 Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Well, I've decided that I will never have the money to have my transmission in my 1990 TurboSTE rebuilt. So what does someone do in a situation like mine? He does it him self! I've already started taking it apart, and tomarrow I will finish the teardown. I have to build an adapter for the engine stand to mount the transmission. I have a bunch of GM service manuals, and a few friends that know about this stuff, so I should be able to do it for the price of a rebuild kit and maybe some hard parts. I plan on using Raybestos friction parts, because I hear they have a high performance line. I also plan on shift kitting it for a little better performance. I'll keep everyone posted about the progress. Or, you could look on my website, if I have time to update it soon. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 are you really set on a 4T60? because a Getrag 282 isn't *that* hard to find. if i had to replace an auto tranny i would go for the getrag no questions asked. besides, you've done it before, the second time around should be cake! btw, your website kicks ass. i check often! joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse5302 Posted October 15, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Well, the way I see it...I already have a 5 speed. I could get another, but I really want to keep the TurboSTE original. It's a very rare car, being maroon and a 4 door. My Cutlass is my fun car. And thanks about the website...there is so much more to come. Jason P.S. Your Cutlass looks a lot better now...I take it you fixed the lowering problem in the front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 yeah, i can't argue with that. ecspecially when it comes to drilling the hole for the shifter cables and grinding the other hole for the clutch master cylinder. good luck with the Turbo STE, and i look forward to your website updates! btw, i might be getting a Turbo STE for myself soon, and i don't think i could bring myself to put a 5-speed in there considering the drill/dremel work needed! joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBuick Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 You make it sound like I'm gonna have to drill the poor car apart.....I'm in tears. I can't bring myself to cut up the regal...but every day she asks me can she please have a 5-speed. Its just the circle-to-a-square and the shifter cables for drilling right? Oh and BTW, where did you guys get all the hydraulic lines for your clutch/mastercyliner/slave cylinder. Reuse from the donor car or did you buy new ones. -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 i reused the line from the donor car. don't worry Tom, it's not nearly as bad as it sounds. yeah, the round to bigger square hole is actually minor and only takes 10 minutes with a Dremel. you don't even have to remove the brake booster if you don't want to, but a Dremel flexshaft is invaluable if you don't! the only other 'non-bolt-on' thing about the 5-speed swap is the hole for the shifter cables. i actually drilled 2 holes out, but you only need to drill one out and knock the other out with a punch i think. Jason did his the 'right way', wheras i actually did drill the second hole with my drill, and i did it in slightly the wrong place :oops: so don't worry, there are people here with experience to help you out! when i did my swap i was pretty much on my own and it still turned out great; much much better than expected! i just got done driving my car a couple minutes ago and i'd have to say that it's still a thrill to drive it now with the 5-speed!....i don't think it could ever get boring! joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 If you have any mechanical ability you can do the swap! Measure 4 times and drill once!!! The round hole / square hole is not bad either. Don't make it to large because the slave cylinder going through the fire wall is a very closely needed fit!!! I made a template of the donor cars hole and then transfered that to my TGP. The sheet metal of the fire wall has a bend in it right where the lower tang of the slave cylinder twists through. Make sure you give yourselve about 1/8" of clearance to the bottom of the bend so the slave cylinder has room to twist lock in place! As long as the donor cars slave cylinder and hydralic lines have no leaks, use them. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCIMSTANCE OPEN the resevoir until everything is mounted and in place!!!!!!!!! The clutch systems that the 89-90 Grand Prixs had are SEALED and cannot be bleed. My donor car had 140,000 miles on it and the hydralic system works perfect. When everything was mounted I syphoned the fluid out of the resevoir and relaced it with GM clutch fluid. It is still working perfect with about 9,000 miles on it since the swap. 8) Here are a few pics of what I am talking about... http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002232.JPG http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002233.JPG http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002241.JPG http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002244.JPG http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002247.JPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Kenny, are you sure? because i have bleed my system before. i had to do it when i put the new master cylinder in. it requires removing the hydraulic line from the slave cylinder, and then removing the slave cylinder from the tranny. hold the slave cylinder at a 45' angle while you fill it with DOT 3 brake fluid. then bleed the air from the line by having a friend push down on the clutch pedal slowly while you hold the end of the line in a clear container filled with fluid. make sure the fluid level in the reservoir stays full. reconnect the line to the slave cylinder, and then the slave cylinder to the tranny and *walla*. your hydraulic clutch system is bled. it's alot like bleeding brakes only simpler. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 I may need to change my statement then. I was told these are sealed systems that cannot be bled. I figured it to be true because there are no bleed ports on the line. The way you are talking about bleeding makes sense though.... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 yeah, that might be true with the Getrag 284 clutch setup. i know they are quite a bit different but how i don't really know. the hydraulic line can be disconnected from the slave cylinder and master cylinder by knocking out the small roll pin on the ends with a scratch awl and small hammer. make sure you don't lose the roll pin! (it's tiny). when connecting the lines back up just insert the line and squeeze the roll pin back in with a pliers. fwiw, my new Raybestos clutch master cylinder was $90-something from Checker. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBuick Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 A major thing I am worried about though is that I will not have a donor car, only all the parts. That is what worries me most. with a donor car....that would be simple. How will I know where to drill the holes? - Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 i think TGPilot, Eclipse5302, and myself all have pics we can give you. this really worried me too, since i didn't have a donor car and i think the 3 of us all did the 5-speed swap at roughly the same time (early summer '02 in my case) so we were probably all on our own. after you pull the carpet back you will see there is a 'boss' for the hole there for the shifter cables (where the passengers left foot would be). Jason's website has a pretty detailed section going over the swap - http://www.turboste.com - as for the round-square hole, i didn't have a donor to look at so i just eyed the end of the clutch master cylinder and ground the hole out accordingly....making sure to make small cuts and test fit it often. you just need to make sure and not cut too much...because you would be in BIG trouble if you did! everything else about the swap is totally bolt on, and straightforward. the most tedious part of the swap for me was replacing all the engine gaskets, rear main seal, axle seals etc. the hardest part was trying to muscle the Getrag back onto the engine after i put the clutch on. i actually did it myself and it turned out great (i was soaked in sweat and going into hysterics...major PITA if you don't have help). joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 oh yeah, i'm not sure what TGPilot or Eclipse5302 did about the brake pedal, but i actually replaced mine for the smaller one from the donor car. this required dropping the steering column, and removing the front seats (which i had to do anyway since the bench seat needed to be swapped out for buckets to make room for the shifter console). a flourescent tube light helps alot here, after lying on your back for an hour or so you can familiarize yourself with the underdash area and swap the brake pedal out (you pretty much can't see what you're working on at all and have to go by feel). it would probably be easier just to cut your existing brake pedal than to go thru all that crap like i did. ack, sorry i'm going off again, later, joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse5302 Posted October 16, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 Yeah, I just cut my brake pedal too. It's a little close to the clutch, but you get used to it. And the bleeding thing...is a pain in the a$$! One way to bleed it is by pushing the pedal many, many times. This works the air out. The other way, is to do what malibuolds said and fill the slave at a 45 degree angle, then submerge the line and slave in fluid, have a friend pump the pedal many times, slowly, and push the slave in many times slowly. Then connect the line and slave and install the pin...all still while submerged in fluid. I bled mine, bled mine, and did it again. After all that work, and making sure it was bleed perfectly, the clutch still wouldn't engage fully (making it hard to shift in to first). It was fine at first, but it got worse. I eventually figured out that the clutch pedal was lower than the brake pedal, so I made the clutch pushrod adjustable, and everything is great! Oh, and the swap info on my website is still undergoing conversion to the new format...I'll try to get it done soon you everyone can see the pics. And (long post, sorry) we finished taking the 4T60 apart today, and we cleaned the case real good. Hehe, we took it to the car wash, and power washed 11+ years of dirt and grime off of it. Then brake cleaned it real good. Tomarrow, I order parts, and start inspecting it. I had to get more brake cleaner (used 7 cans today alone) though. So far, the only differences between the Turbo trans and NA trans are this: It uses a different valve body assy, and it has another spring in the 1-2 accumulator. And don't worry, I have LOTS of pics. Even a couple of poses...hehe Jason -------------------------------- I should make a killer signature sometime soon, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 Here are a few pics of what I am talking about... http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002232.JPG http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002233.JPG http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002241.JPG http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002244.JPG http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002247.JPG Hmm, i never realzied you needed to drill a new hole. I could swear there were some automatic equp cars I've seen where the cable goes out the same spot as the manual. I guess I'm wrong! Big detailed pics by the way. Wish i didn't have dialup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 i really didn't have much trouble bleeding my system at all. i've only done it once and it's been great and i have about 10,000 miles on the car since the swap. i didn't even submerge the slave cylinder, just the line itself. after the slave was full, and the line was purged of air, i simply put the line into the slave and installed the pin and called it done (neither the line or slave cylinder was submerged while connecting) clutch has been great since. a few weeks ago i tried practicing launching the car and all of the sudden the clutch felt waayyy different. it scared me, i thought i toasted the clutch, although it never has slipped yet. the clutch must have worn in or something, because it is *much* easier to drive now, and a WHOLE lot easier to shift and launch. still no signs of slipping at all, and that was about 1500 miles ago. since then i can shift gears super quick, although i'm still trying to perfect my launch....i get the best results revving to 3000-ish and easing the clutch out (a quick balancing act more or less), then i stomp on it, bringing it to 4000RPM or so and then shift. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 Here are a few pics of what I am talking about... http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002232.JPG http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002233.JPG http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002241.JPG http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002244.JPG http://www.netavalanche.com/kenny/P0002247.JPG Hmm, i never realzied you needed to drill a new hole. I could swear there were some automatic equp cars I've seen where the cable goes out the same spot as the manual. I guess I'm wrong! Big detailed pics by the way. Wish i didn't have dialup i'm not really sure myself, since my car was previously column shift and the column shift cable used to run thru the same hole that the clutch master cylinder is in now. i saw a junkyard floorshift CS once tho, and i think the floorshift auto cable ran thru a hole that was a little higher than the manual shifter cable hole. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 When I drilled for the shift cables, I drilled from the engine bay first. When you look at the fire wall from the engine bay there was a round dimple on the fire wall. Almost looked like a knock-out on an electrical box, but it was not perforated to allow you to just knock it out. I centered a hole saw on it and cut out what was dimpled. When that hole was complete I could see the floor pan through the hole (which has about 1.5" in from the fire wall). On the floor pan was another dimple from the factory that looked like someone smacked a center punch with. I was lucky with my measurements and the center punch from the factory was centered on the hole I cut through the fire-wall. If you pull your carpet back and then look at my picture 2232.jpg I think you will see the dimple I am talking about. Chris I would not be surprised if some Grand Prixs had the holes pre-cut, but mine was just "marked" from the factory where to cut. Also in 2232.jpg you can see the Auto-Shift cable going up under the dash. The hole for it is way up and left of where the manual shift linkage needs to go out... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBuick Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 A questions for the 5-speeders. Is the swapping of pedals the most difficult part? By cutting the brake pedal I assume you mean just taking the wide ??? pedal and making it a ? by cutting material from either side? In addition, if you have to get up in there to put in the clutch pedal anyways, why not just do the brake at the same time, or are they two completely separate assemblies that mount in different ways. Also, I would appreciate any and all pics that could be of assistance (TGPilot thanks alot for those pics) , as I want to have the best idea of what i am doing before i tear apart a 24000 mile car. Thanks again - Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 I completely tore my dash apart to replace the assembly that holds the Clutch pedal and Brake pedal linkages. Other people say they just unbolted the old and bolted in the new pedals, but I could not see how that could be done. I went the hard way....but now I know how to rmove the entire dash in ONE piece. Hopefully I will never need to do that again!!! 8) I have pictures of the dash in pieces if you would like. I will need to wait until Waskie is around to host my pictures though... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaD Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 TGP, you could come in handy I have to take out my entire dash to do my manual-to-power window/lock conversion, and when I took the dash out in the junkyard from the donor car, it took me about 3 hours to get the harness. I forget how much time I actually spent physically taking the dash out, but I did a real shitty job since it wasn't my car and I just wanted to get that harness and get the hell out of there. I can imagine that a non-ham-fisted job will take a while. Do you remember any specifics? I remember having to remove about one million bolts and unbolt the steering wheel from the dash, and heating ducts, blah blah blah, it was wack! any easy way to do this? -MaD- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 i thought the clutch pedal was fairly easy in comparison to the brake pedal. the steering column gets in the way and makes it pretty much impossible to see where the brake pedal hinges on and the bolt you need to slide thru the hanger. the clutch pedal is off to the left a few inches, so the steering column isn't really in the way with the clutch pedal. i didn't take the dash apart or anything, but it was a PITA. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBuick Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 I am getting scared now...... :shock: The entire dash??? I really need some pics of this joshua..... thanks - Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 Don't get scared!! Remove the dash pad....remove 4 bolts from the steering column and set column on floor...remove the two bolts from the lower outside corners of the lower dash assembly...then the 6-8 bolts that are just below the windshield that hold the dash to the firewall. WahLah!!! Your dash is free to move. The main vacuum line that services the Heater/Vent controls needs to be unplugged and the two small screws that hold some black box to the bottom of the dash assembly too. I would find out from the other guys how they did the pedal install without dropping the dash first!! 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaD Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 Shit Pilot, you make it sound way easier than it was for me :? I'm half-tempted to take out my dash tonight slip the power window/lock harness in, do a little splice job, and put the dash back in....think I can do it 4 hours? It seems like you had waaaaaay less bolts than I did, lol -MaD- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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