TGPilot Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 BTW- Kenny I love your TSTE! Thanks man! I think the car you bought is one of the cleanest looking Z34's I have seen first hand. It has power and room to play...but I think it will take some serious tweaking to get it where you want it. Once you get down to sea-level you will feel a seat of the pants difference for sure!! Get her tuned and take it to a Dyno-jet dyno and run it again for comparison sake! 8) ok I am off to bed...talk to everyone tomorrow!! PEACE! Kenny 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Not to sound like an ass, and I certainly don't care to take anyone's side, but you definetly just contradicted yourself. that is because the truth about the event is slowly coming out into the open (numerous PMs from people that were there etc). i initially gave Aaron the benefit of the doubt, but now i do not believe the dyno was "off". i tend to agree with Kenny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topless94style Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 A couple questions for aaron: What is your most recent run at the track with the white car? What mods have you added since? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Pics: http://www.ageoflegends.com/~antirice/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4043 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topless94style Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Ok, so i did my own research i couldnt wait. I learned of an equation, that proved to be very close to accurate when it comes to determining power. With conversion from US units to SI units. At sea level his car would run some where around 13.9@98mph. That is, if these two sites are correct, and his 1/4 time and mph are correct in his profile. http://www.puebloharp.com/aboutPueblo.htm This one has where I got the height from^ http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/altitude.html This one the conversion factors^ In order for his car, at sea level to run a 13.9@98mph, would require about 249fwhp. I still find a 13.9 and 249whp hard to believe. If this was before his headers, and the dino now puts out 218fwhp, either the dino has pms, or his headers SUCK. Then again, it could also be from poor tuning or lack there of. EDIT: Ill add, that i used the same equation with a cars known 1/4 time AND MPH AND dino hp/tq. Using the equation, i came within 2hp of actualy produced hp numbers. I used dykz34's old black lumina and stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 If this was before his headers, and the dino now puts out 218fwhp, either the dino has pms, or his headers SUCK. Then again, it could also be from poor tuning or lack there of. . Yeah, like I said lets hope that when I get home and it tuned, it'll break 13's and 240 fwhp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl3196 Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Hmmm just saw this posted by gsjon on another forum: Another bone stock '98GTP put down 168hp... they said they had just bought it from someone who had ran nothing but 87 octane fuel in it, and they were on its first tank of 91. My guess is there's either damage, or the PCM was dorked and needed to relearn how to run with the proper fuel. Could be why jen's GTP was so low. And on a side note: Woot I have more hp and tq then aaron's z! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john99gtp Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 jesus, 87 whats up knock!!! the dealer put 87 in when i bought mine,i was pissed, has to limp on that tank for a while before i could put 93 in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted May 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 A couple questions for aaron: What is your most recent run at the track with the white car? What mods have you added since? A 15.22 @ 91.xx, which was at PMI in Pueblo, CO. Since then Ihave added an updated chip, 96+ intakes, and a LS1 75mm throttle body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY GTP Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 I only read a few posts in this thread, and I really have only one thing to say.... Dyno numbers dont mean squat, as can be evidenced by Aarons results. Every dyno is different, every operator is different, and the conditions under which a car is dynoed can vary greatly as well. I can take my car to one of the 3 or 4 dynos I have within 2 hours of me and get numbers that could possibly be within a 75hp window, meaning I could get 150hp at one place, 180 at another, and maybe 250 at another. Obviously these are just extreme examples, but Im sure you call get the gist. The only numbers that you should really be looking at when doing a dyno run are the A/F and any other parameters you may have logged from the run, such as timing and fuel trims. IMHO, the ONLY numbers that matter are track times, specifically trap speeds, as they can tell you where your HP is really at. Anything else is just fuel for the bench racing fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topless94style Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 A couple questions for aaron: What is your most recent run at the track with the white car? What mods have you added since? A 15.22 @ 91.xx, which was at PMI in Pueblo, CO. Since then Ihave added an updated chip, 96+ intakes, and a LS1 75mm throttle body. That time would then change your fwhp to about 230. Sounds like there needs to be some tuning with those headers and intakes real bad. If that 14.7 that you ran in your profile was before headers, then yes, your headers have slowed you down. And with this new intake set up, it has probably slowed you down even more. Time to add more fuel and tune your spark a little and bring that power back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted May 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 I only read a few posts in this thread, and I really have only one thing to say.... Dyno numbers dont mean squat, as can be evidenced by Aarons results. Every dyno is different, every operator is different, and the conditions under which a car is dynoed can vary greatly as well. I can take my car to one of the 3 or 4 dynos I have within 2 hours of me and get numbers that could possibly be within a 75hp window, meaning I could get 150hp at one place, 180 at another, and maybe 250 at another. Obviously these are just extreme examples, but Im sure you call get the gist. The only numbers that you should really be looking at when doing a dyno run are the A/F and any other parameters you may have logged from the run, such as timing and fuel trims. IMHO, the ONLY numbers that matter are track times, specifically trap speeds, as they can tell you where your HP is really at. Anything else is just fuel for the bench racing fire. Dyno numbers mean a whole lot more than 1/4minumbers. Remember, all Dynojets are corrected to a standard humidity, air pressure, altitude, air temperature, everything. In fact Dynojet states that any Dynojet dyno, anywhere in the world, should be within 1% of each other. So dyno numbers mean a lot, but he definately had problems in the calibration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted May 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 A couple questions for aaron: What is your most recent run at the track with the white car? What mods have you added since? A 15.22 @ 91.xx, which was at PMI in Pueblo, CO. Since then Ihave added an updated chip, 96+ intakes, and a LS1 75mm throttle body. That time would then change your fwhp to about 230. Sounds like there needs to be some tuning with those headers and intakes real bad. If that 14.7 that you ran in your profile was before headers, then yes, your headers have slowed you down. And with this new intake set up, it has probably slowed you down even more. Time to add more fuel and tune your spark a little and bring that power back. There is no way you can calculate hp based off of a 1/4mi. Did you take into account the 6000ft altitude I ran at? The extreme shitiness of the track? My gear ratios? My EXACT drivetrain loss? My tire size? The exact track conditions at the time I ran? The exact weight of my car? The weight distribution? No way, you just plugged in the numbers. My 14.7 was done at only 1000ft, at a great track on a great day. I then rebuilt the motor, added headers, 96 intakes, a fresh chip, a LS1 TB, and almost replicated that time 5000ft higher. They didn't hurt it. And the car does have a freshly reprogrammed chip, and the A:F was good. It could use some exact tuning, but it is good for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl3196 Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Aaron, look at pmi's damn website. THE FUCKING TRACK IS AT 4900ft, I don't care what the fire department says. Also check this site: http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/altitude.html HMmm 4900 ft there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z34_nut Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Well, Tony will obviously have to run it at the track. I just hate how its "this could have been, this should be" bullshit. You put 218 down at the dyno, Thats a fact. We would like to see better, just for the sake of seeing how much the DOHC can work with these mods, but its just unreasonable to make excuses. Untill we see better numbers (if it happens) then we will believe you. There is no reason to make people believe anything unless you have substantial proof. You don't have the proof. You might in the future, but I remeber when you were aiming for 240, then it grew to 260 after doing nothing to the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topless94style Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 A couple questions for aaron: What is your most recent run at the track with the white car? What mods have you added since? A 15.22 @ 91.xx, which was at PMI in Pueblo, CO. Since then Ihave added an updated chip, 96+ intakes, and a LS1 75mm throttle body. That time would then change your fwhp to about 230. Sounds like there needs to be some tuning with those headers and intakes real bad. If that 14.7 that you ran in your profile was before headers, then yes, your headers have slowed you down. And with this new intake set up, it has probably slowed you down even more. Time to add more fuel and tune your spark a little and bring that power back. There is no way you can calculate hp based off of a 1/4mi. Did you take into account the 6000ft altitude I ran at? The extreme shitiness of the track? My gear ratios? My EXACT drivetrain loss? My tire size? The exact track conditions at the time I ran? The exact weight of my car? The weight distribution? No way, you just plugged in the numbers. My 14.7 was done at only 1000ft, at a great track on a great day. I then rebuilt the motor, added headers, 96 intakes, a fresh chip, a LS1 TB, and almost replicated that time 5000ft higher. They didn't hurt it. And the car does have a freshly reprogrammed chip, and the A:F was good. It could use some exact tuning, but it is good for now. Actually, I can. Its called physics, while it does not take into account all those variables, its a good estimate of were your sitting. The equation is all in SI units, and the answer gotten from the equation is power in watts. You convert watts to HP, and then multiply the gotten hp number by 1.8(dont remember where this number came from). Its (.5*mass*(m/s)^2)/seconds. I will also disagree with the 6000ft altitude, and yes, i took the height into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl3196 Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Also Bob (02 GTP) dyno'd lower then before because he thinks his nitrous wasn't spraying. Just accept the numbers Aaron and hope tony gets it tuned better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topless94style Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Anyway the calculations dont matter, what matters is your car isnt up to the all mighty standards of the one and only Aaron(God according to you). Face it man, you put down 218hp at the wheels. Its not your car anymore, we have caught you in all your bullshit so many times, and this helps to prove your greatness Z34 isnt all that you say it is. Its fast, its ran good times, but it needs work. You do all this work to your car, think its the greatest thing in the world, claim numerous times its pushing 250whp, i hate to see the state your Godly fiero will be in when its done. I hate to see the look on your face when it doesnt dyno 500,000hp and run a 1second 1/4mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john99gtp Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Aaron, look at pmi's damn website. THE FUCKING TRACK IS AT 4900ft, I don't care what the fire department says. Also check this site: http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/altitude.html HMmm 4900 ft there too. :withstupid: Fire department??? since when do they know altitude Id rather trust the tracks page AND NHRAs page over some fire department Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY GTP Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Dyno numbers mean a whole lot more than 1/4minumbers. Remember, all Dynojets are corrected to a standard humidity, air pressure, altitude, air temperature, everything. In fact Dynojet states that any Dynojet dyno, anywhere in the world, should be within 1% of each other. So dyno numbers mean a lot, but he definately had problems in the calibration. Horsepower numbers from a chassis dyno are good for only one thing, and that is bragging rights and bench racing. The other numbers that you look at, mainly the A/F ratio, are more important than the final TQ and HP numbers, although I should add that the TQ and HP curves are important to look at too. Your 1/4 numbers mean a whole lot more, because theyre numbers that can prove what your car AND you are actually capable of. Whats so significant about a peak TQ or HP number that makes them more important than a time slip? And on the topic of accuracy..... Dynojet claims they should *theoretically* be the same based on THEIR parameters and conditions and with a certified expert using it, but you can easily throw off the numbers, as evidenced in the very first post in this thread. And when I talked about different numbers, I'm not even talking about using JUST a Dynojet, I'm talking about different dynos at different shops. There was a real good writeup in Hot Rod last year about dynos, and they told the differences in operation and results between them. You'd be amazed how much of a variance you can face between the different types of dynos. I even read that the amount of tension you have in the tie down straps can cause a significant difference in the numbers. More tension, more friction, lower numbers and vice versa. There was a few other variables they mentioned but I cant recall. The ONLY dyno numbers that matter one bit are those from an engine dyno. Those dont lie, and are alot more accurate than a chassis dyno. And if youre really dying to know how much power youre putting to the wheels, you can chassis dyno it and get a number from that, or just subtract 15-18% HP from the BHP the engine itself made and go from there. Either way, its the track numbers you put down that matter most, 'nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 I would be interested to see what kind of numbers my car could put down after what I've done to my engine. I'm not expecting 200hp, but I'd be interested to know. I'm probably more or less around 170hp or so, if even that. :? I can't wait to run the 1/4, though I know I'll get shitty numbers the first couple times cause I'll have no idea how to launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 So someone who joined on May 13 2005 defending Aaron's claims to a bogus dyno?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 Dyno numbers mean a whole lot more than 1/4minumbers. i agree completley. look at all the variables when you're running at a track. let's say you had a shitty launch, shitty track surface, the lack of altitude correction, the anticipation you get from racing an LS1 next to you can fuck up your skills, atmosperic conditions.... the variables are staggering. unless you get a PERFECT launch, good 60ft, are good at shifting, and the track surface is great, than 1/4 mile times don't mean shit really. at the track it comes down to driver skill more than what your car actually has in terms of whp & wtq. i'll trust a dyno-jet any day of the week when i want to measure what my car is capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted May 16, 2005 Report Share Posted May 16, 2005 So someone who joined on May 13 2005 defending Aaron's claims to a bogus dyno?? Actually, he's trying to validate people who say that chassis dynos are the be-all-end-all of performance measurement, if you read more carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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