ThunderBat Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 I seem to remember reading in a previous post that the tranny on my 93 Lumina has a reusable rubber gasket on the pan. The car has 120k on it and I'm not having any trans probs but I wanna keep it that way. I'm sure that there has to be multiple members that have done this already and I would appreciate some tips to make the job go smooth. I dont have an owners man with the car so whats the recommended fluid for this trans? I'm sure there must be a good/better/best on the filter as well. Fire away with what ever info may come to mind...I'd like to get his done in the next week or so. Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Another trans post... oh well Filters.. I dunno they are all the same. They come in kits that you buy. Your '93 may or may not have a reusable gasket, and it may not be reusable due to age. I would buy a trans kit with filter and RUBBER gasket (not CORK!!!). I've always used ATF Dextron III in my tranny, I think most people on here probably do as well. You really should get a Haynes manual ($10) its got directions and pictures on how to "drop the pan". There are like ~20? screws, losen each one a little bit at a time, but losen the ones going down more so that the fluid can come out that side. You'll need a big container for it and something under the car if you are on cement or driveway because it will probably be very messy. Wear old shirt too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topless94style Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Try using Type F fluid, and let us know how that turns out. Davefromcolorado posted a while ago how that is supposed to help your tranny shift firmer. Its a pretty straight forward job and very messy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mihela816 Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Type F works well. I use B&M Trick Shift which is basically blue type f with some extra goodies in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Are you sure Type F is okay to use in our trannies? They seem to say explcitly, use only Dexron II. There has to be some sort of reason for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mihela816 Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 It's so old people don't start complaining about firmer, more positive shifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 Unless a bunch of us start trying type F (wish I would have known a couple weeks ago when I dropped my pan) I would have tried it out. I do wonder about mixing DexIII and type F together if thats a bad thing Best thing to do would be to use what GM recommends- Dextron III, unless you want to be a guinnea pig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBULS Posted May 7, 2004 Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 My advice is to get a full trans flush (as well as the filter change). It's easy for the dealer to do (they have a pump deally that does it), and you can switch to a full synthetic ATF (such as Mobil 1, Redline or Amsoil) for extra heat resistance if you wish (4T60-E's don't like heat). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBat Posted May 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2004 thanks for the imput guys!...I probably wont be going with the type F experiment since this car is most likely gonna wind up either with my wife or my daughter (not old people, just non-car-guy peoples)...but the concept of synthetic fluid for the sake of longevity sounds like a smart move. There is a local shop here that does the trans flush routine and he is a reputable guy...as in he's never given me a sour deal on anything he's done (which is kinda evidenced by how busy he stays...he's kickin Merchants Tire butt!) But I still don't go along with what most of them say about the filter not needing to be changed with the flush process. Since I'm not having any probs right now, I think I'll go with a good gasket ad filter set and some synthetic fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted May 8, 2004 Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 Hmmm haven't we all gone over the use of synthetic tranny fluid and we didn't come to a conclusion? I wouldn't put synthetic in just yet, do a bit more reading first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted May 8, 2004 Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 the gasket is reusable, my 93 cutty is the same age, and the gasket was reusable and hasn't leaked a drop since i dropped the pan just drop the pan and change the filter, get a delco one from the dealer, you'll get most of the fluid out and you don't have to pay someone to do it for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBULS Posted May 8, 2004 Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 Hmmm haven't we all gone over the use of synthetic tranny fluid and we didn't come to a conclusion? I wouldn't put synthetic in just yet, do a bit more reading first. If it passes as a Dextron III ATF which M1 ATF DOES, then it will work JUST as well as normal ATF in most circumstances, and better than the rest. I WOULD do the full flush though. It's cheap to do, and gets 95+% of your old, fluid out..............a pan drop only does like 60-70% IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted May 8, 2004 Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 Hmmm haven't we all gone over the use of synthetic tranny fluid and we didn't come to a conclusion? I wouldn't put synthetic in just yet, do a bit more reading first. If it passes as a Dextron III ATF which M1 ATF DOES, then it will work JUST as well as normal ATF in most circumstances, and better than the rest. I WOULD do the full flush though. It's cheap to do, and gets 95+% of your old, fluid out..............a pan drop only does like 60-70% IIRC. just hope some dumbass grease monkey doesn't fuck your trans up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannymik Posted May 8, 2004 Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 changing your fluid/filter is very messy, but well worth it. That reusable gasket is more expensive than those damn cork ones are. I've talked to a few guys that work at those grease monkey/valvoline places and those cork gaskets get stuck and rip when you maintenance your fluid again...therefore a larger risk of future leaks. I also read that you should drop the pan and change the filter one time before you do an actual torque flush(if the fluid is all original). I don't know the reason for that, but I know that I seen it on this forum when I did mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted May 8, 2004 Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 changing your fluid/filter is very messy, but well worth it. That reusable gasket is more expensive than those damn cork ones are. thats why you don't buy a new gasket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted May 8, 2004 Report Share Posted May 8, 2004 Type F is no experiment, it is far superior to D/M 3. I will try to find my post about it. *EDIT* Can't find it, but basically F is more stable at hotter temps. and every pro tranny builder I know suggests it. The TH350 I bought for my LeSabre has had Type F in it from day 1. It will provide a firmer shift, but it's really only noticeable w/ v-body mods. After I rebuild the extra TGP tranny it will be getting Type F in it as well. Especially since they go out because of heat problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 If I have many tranny to spare, I would try the type F for my vehicle. Since, I don't have many tranny to spare or extra cash for another, I would stick to D/M III. It's good for people who tried the Type F and not having any problems. If your vehicle is under warranty, then I would stick to what the manufacturer says otherwise they would use that as an excuse to void the warranty if something happens to your tranny even though it might not be because of using the Type F fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 I think there is 1 person on this board w/ a W(ish) car that is under warranty. And hey, Chrysler recommends 7500 miles between oil changes. Do you think they would void a warranty because you change it every 3K? Type F fluid is better, I don't care if anyone uses it, I don't make any money. But in the performance arena, I know that type F is a superior fluid, along w/ the fact that if you make power these trannies don't like it. (Proven by the de-tuning of the TDC, and the boost limiting on the TGP.) Type F will aid in preventing thermal destruction of these trannies. Buh bye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 I think there is 1 person on this board w/ a W(ish) car that is under warranty. Not everyone can here rebuild transmission for breakfast. Most folks gets a re-build with a warranty. What made you think that D/M III is just for older W-bodies? Don't you think we may also own newer vehicle other than GM still with warranty that uses D/M III? And hey, Chrysler recommends 7500 miles between oil changes. Do you think they would void a warranty because you change it every 3K? We are talking about different transmission fluid type here. Since you are talking about chaging oil, try adding some aftermarket additive like Duralube, Prolong, etc and see if you get a warranty claim accepted. Type F fluid is better, I don't care if anyone uses it, I don't make any money. That's what I'm afraid. You don't care because it is not your vehicle and if someone ended up with a trashed tranny, you are not responsible for it. I don't think any reputable automotive technician will just put type F per your request without liability waiver. It's basically do it at your own risk. Some folks do not consider what happens to the existing D/M III when mixed with Type F if they just drop the tranny pan and tranny filter. The old D/M III must be flushed out. Most flush system are reverse type and could result in seal leakage. Anyway, I'm glad you don't have any problems using Type F for your D/M III required tranny. But for most of us here, if something happens to the tranny and it get trashed, automotive shop is the next stop $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Buh bye. And just when I thought we were done w/ this thread. What made you think that D/M III is just for older W-bodies? Don't you think we may also own newer vehicle other than GM still with warranty that uses D/M III? I never said it was for older cars. He's not talking about having his tranny rebuilt, just changing fluid= NO WARRANTY! And like I said, There is less than a handfull of people on this site w/ a car still under warranty. We are talking about different transmission fluid type here. Since you are talking about chaging oil, try adding some aftermarket additive like Duralube, Prolong, etc and see if you get a warranty claim accepted. What I was TRYING to get across was, do you think they will void the warranty by going above and beyond their expectations. Besides, the fluid is chemically different. That's on you if you are worried about warranty repair. I have yet to meet a tranny tech. that can smell or taste a difference between the 2. I don't even know why I'm trying to argue this point, because it's simply better. It's not like Furd trannies run w/ gravel in them. You don't care because it is not your vehicle and if someone ended up with a trashed tranny, you are not responsible for it. I don't think any reputable automotive technician will just put type F per your request without liability waiver. It's basically do it at your own risk. No, but you see, it IS my vehicle, because I'm running Type F RIGHT NOW. And well, I change my own fluid, so I don't have to pay someone to put inferior fluid in my car. It would be do it at your own risk, but there is no risk. Ah well, fuck it. I'm wrong, D/M 3 fluid is the shit. Hell it doesn't matter anyhow, because if he waited too long between changes the new fluid will probably kill his tranny anyhow, and Type F would just do it faster, (since most Fhurds brake down more frequent that GM's do) I mean it this time, BUH BYE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERDUTYD Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 i put b&m trickshift in mine and i got 147,000 miles on the original trans, so i am sticking with it. it is funny though, every time i get an oil change done they say i need to change my tranny fluid right away. i guess the don't like that it is blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zboy Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 I worked in a tranny shop for a year and saw/ learned alot. First I would not suggest a trans flush on a 4t60 or 4t60E with more than 80,000 miles on it, unless you are absolutely sure of the trans maintenance in the past. The reason for this is the 4t60 like every other modern GM trans has thin clutch discs to reduce weight and therby improve fuel mileage that much more. The problem is most people don't think about changing trans fluid. The car gets sold and the new owner thinks, ok lets do everything to make this car last, they get the trans flushed at 110,000 miles and suddenly the trans starts acting up then the car doesn't move. Owner is pissed because the shop screwed it up, " Hey it ran fine before, what did you idiots do?" well the trans and the clutches got used to old dirty worn out fluid. Very little friction. suddenly the fluid is changed and the now Very thin clutches have Tons of friction, a couple of full throttle runs later, now the trans is smoked. If the trans fluid is dark brown, black, and/or smells burnt, a trans flush will probably do more harm than good. You're best course of action here is to pull the pan and replace the filter, letting the car sit for a while with the pan and filter off, just dripping. This gets about 2/3 of the fluid out. Install new filter and replace gasket add fluid, test drive CAREFULLY then recheck fluid. Repeat test drive and fluid chek two more times, increasing distance each time. you will probably have too add a quart or 2 of fluid. after 5 miles of total distance the trans should read accurate. You don't want to flush an abused trans because the new fluid is too harsh. leaving some old fluid in the trans will "soften"the new fluid enough for most discs to live a while longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 I could've sworn it wasn't because the clutch disc's are so thin, but actually because the varnish in the trans sets into the cast parts of the valve body, and actually become abrasive to the valves which move in and out, and once you put in the new fluid, it's got enough detergents in it, that it removes that varnish, and then the clearances that were once within' tolerances (because of the varnish) are now gone, causing clutch packs to stay activated too long, and causing slippage of fluid past the clutch packs (because the seals suffer in the same way) not allowing them to activate fully. but that's just what I thought. --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zboy Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Dave you are right on. With the 4t60e and the electronic solenoids varnish is a problem, Ususally with 4t60Es, the actual discs get worn down with higher mileage and lack of maintenance. Pull the pan on a high mile, unmaintained 4T60E ( or any modern auto trans) and check out all the sludge in the pan. It is true that valve clearances are vitally important to maintain proper pressure to the clutches, and varnish can and will change this pressure. The fact is, the clutch discs are weak when stock and lack of maintanence is murder on these trannys. Flushing the trans is usually seen as a cure all, but on older transmissions with old fluid, most of the time flushing the trans is an invitation to failure. By the way varnish is always a problem but especially on transmissions that have been severly burnt/overheated. It's like oil coking in a turbocharger, just not as severe. The hotter the trans gets, the more the fluid cooks and turns to varnish. This is why aftermarket coolers for all fluids are such a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Ahh, so it's more of a bit of both, rather then just one being the actual killer of the trans ... make a bit more sense. good info to know. that's the greatest thing about these forums, you can get good information. so what are you feelings on Type F (in a properly maintained transmission)? --Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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