terryk2003 Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Ok guys, i'm really thinking about building a new system. Current setup is a 12" JL W3 with a Hifonics Amp (not sure of model) and a custom box that Slick made years ago. Well, i'm thinking about moving that to my fiances Focus and building something more like i originally wanted. I will be installing this in my '05 Cobalt right now but i want to be able to easily move it to my GTP in the summer months. The only thing i KNOW i want to use is a 10" JL W6v2 http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_12513_JL_Audio_10W6v2.aspx . As far as amp and sub box go i'm not sure where to go. I'm thinking about going with a sealed box as i do not have time to build my own ported box and i'm honstly not trying to just make tons of racket so people can hear me blocks away. I just want some nice sounding thump to my tunes with the ability to overdo a idiot with his crap turned way up at a stop light. So, suggestions for amp would be great! Also, box suggestions would be great too but like i said, i dont have the time or patience to build my own box at this point in time. I'm also thinking i'm going to buy everything from the site i posted the link for above, but if you guys know of a place i can get better deals that would be wonderful as well. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) Ok guys, i'm really thinking about building a new system. Current setup is a 12" JL W3 with a Hifonics Amp (not sure of model) and a custom box that Slick made years ago. Well, i'm thinking about moving that to my fiances Focus and building something more like i originally wanted. I will be installing this in my '05 Cobalt right now but i want to be able to easily move it to my GTP in the summer months. The only thing i KNOW i want to use is a 10" JL W6v2 http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_12513_JL_Audio_10W6v2.aspx . As far as amp and sub box go i'm not sure where to go. I'm thinking about going with a sealed box as i do not have time to build my own ported box and i'm honstly not trying to just make tons of racket so people can hear me blocks away. I just want some nice sounding thump to my tunes with the ability to overdo a idiot with his crap turned way up at a stop light. So, suggestions for amp would be great! Also, box suggestions would be great too but like i said, i dont have the time or patience to build my own box at this point in time. I'm also thinking i'm going to buy everything from the site i posted the link for above, but if you guys know of a place i can get better deals that would be wonderful as well. Thanks in advance! Prefab boxes suck. If you want something decent, you have to build your own. No way around it. I have seen one decent prefab box in the entire time I've worked on car audio. They're all very poorly built. Most have many leaks, are not structurally sound, and are rarely suited for the sub that's being installed. Some of them work on very low powered subs, but you're looking at buying a rather expensive sub and using a shitty box with it. If you seriously can't build your own, you'll be better off having someone else build you one to spec and biting the bullet on the cost. Going cheap here is not a good idea. Any reason you're stuck on that sub? Its not well suited for sealed boxes, at all. I just got done modeling it for you. In order to keep excursion controlled safely and within low distortion ranges, you need a .5 cubic foot (net) box, no more than 400W of power (when its rated for 600W), and you end up with a very high Qtc of .84 which will make it sound boomy, uncontrolled, sloppy, and like just plain crap. Prefab ported boxes are going to be tuned high and will have nearly the same problem. This sub does not suit your purposes. That, and you can get a much better sub at that price point. You're seriously paying a lot just because it has "JL" written on the cone. I can provide the model graphs if you're interested. For amps, what's your budget? Its hard to make a recommendation without one. As a general rule, you're going to be looking for amps that are CEA-2006 certified, which states that they can make their rated power under a level of distortion without clipping. Its very important. Edited October 4, 2011 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Terry, If you need/want to have a box built, I might be able to come up with something, providing you can get me the cut specs. That, or perhaps you can sweet talk Andrei into cutting the boards and shipping them to you un-assembled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) Terry, If you need/want to have a box built, I might be able to come up with something, providing you can get me the cut specs. That, or perhaps you can sweet talk Andrei into cutting the boards and shipping them to you un-assembled. I wouldn't mind designing the box and having someone else build it, or cutting the sheets for you and shipping them. Either way works. Edit: just realized it would go to Ontario. Not sure how much shipping across the border would be... Edited October 4, 2011 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryk2003 Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 I wouldn't mind designing the box and having someone else build it, or cutting the sheets for you and shipping them. Either way works. Edit: just realized it would go to Ontario. Not sure how much shipping across the border would be... I would actually be down for someone designing it and cutting the boards for me. That wouldnt be a problem. I actually dont mind building it i just really dont have much of a clue what i'm doing or where to get the stuff i need to build it. Andrei, how much would you charge me to design & cut the boards so all i have to do is assemble? Also, why would it have to go across the border? I live in OHIO...lol. Like, 15 minutes south of where BXX lives. As for the sub, i guess i'm not dead set on it...I've just always been a fan of JL Audio. I will say that i only want 1 great sounded 10" sub. I only wanted a 10 last time but went with the 12 because slick had that box for sale. Thanks for the help guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) I would actually be down for someone designing it and cutting the boards for me. That wouldnt be a problem. I actually dont mind building it i just really dont have much of a clue what i'm doing or where to get the stuff i need to build it. Andrei, how much would you charge me to design & cut the boards so all i have to do is assemble? Also, why would it have to go across the border? I live in OHIO...lol. Like, 15 minutes south of where BXX lives. As for the sub, i guess i'm not dead set on it...I've just always been a fan of JL Audio. I will say that i only want 1 great sounded 10" sub. I only wanted a 10 last time but went with the 12 because slick had that box for sale. Thanks for the help guys. JL audio makes good stuff, there's no doubt about that, but some of their stuff is...overpriced for what you get. That particular sub is IMO a bit overpriced, but more importantly than that, it won't work in the sealed box you're looking for. I got confused thinking you lived in Ontario. Not sure why, lol. Design is free since I do that for everyone. Depending on the size of the box, I could probably get the pieces to you for $65-$75 shipped. Double thick baffle with a flush mount. 3/4" MDF. However, the value here is minimal since you could just go to home depot, buy a 8x4 sheet, and have them make the cuts for you to the spec I give you. Having me do it is only worth something if I build the whole box and ship it out since I have the tools and materials. What kind of music do you listen to? I ask because I'd recommend you a different sub if you listened to primarily rock than if you listened to primarily rap or dubstep, and the box would also be designed differently. Edited October 4, 2011 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryk2003 Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 JL audio makes good stuff, there's no doubt about that, but some of their stuff is...overpriced for what you get. That particular sub is IMO a bit overpriced, but more importantly than that, it won't work in the sealed box you're looking for. I got confused thinking you lived in Ontario. Not sure why, lol. Design is free since I do that for everyone. Depending on the size of the box, I could probably get the pieces to you for $65-$75 shipped. Double thick baffle with a flush mount. 3/4" MDF. What kind of music do you listen to? I ask because I'd recommend you a different sub if you listened to primarily alternative rock than if you listened to primarily rap or dubstep, and the box would also be designed differently. I listen to a little bit of everything honestly. Mostly country (dont laugh and ask why i want a sub! LOL), but i also enjoy classic rock like Bob Seger or Fleetwood Mac. I also listen to alot of newer rock like Theory of a Deadman, Nickelback, Disturbed, etc. and a little bit of Rap. Like i said, i'm not dead set on that particular sub. Also, when designing the box keep in mind i'd like it to fit in both my Cobalt and my GTP. I'm not sure how you feel about mounting the amps on the side of the box but i'd like to do something like that to easily be able to move it from one car to the other. Also keep in mind, i'm not rich...i just really wanted 1 great sub as opposed to 2 not so high quality subs...i'm not trying to spend a ton of money on this just want something to sound really nice. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 I listen to a little bit of everything honestly. Mostly country (dont laugh and ask why i want a sub! LOL), but i also enjoy classic rock like Bob Seger or Fleetwood Mac. I also listen to alot of newer rock like Theory of a Deadman, Nickelback, Disturbed, etc. and a little bit of Rap. Like i said, i'm not dead set on that particular sub. Also, when designing the box keep in mind i'd like it to fit in both my Cobalt and my GTP. I'm not sure how you feel about mounting the amps on the side of the box but i'd like to do something like that to easily be able to move it from one car to the other. How do you feel about two 8" subs in a sealed box? http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_34384_Alpine-SWR-823D.html These are very special subs. Typical cone area on a 10" sub like the JL 10W6 is 332 CM^2. Cone area on each of these is 201CM^2. With 14mm of distortion-free xmax, two of them would get louder and sound cleaner than any single 10" sub in that power range. The reason why I recommend them is because they dig very deep and have amazing sound quality. The motor strength to moving mass ratio is very high, which means they are very accurate, articulate, powerful, and have very fast transitions. $100 each shipped from sonicelectronix.com. You'd need 600-700W RMS to power the two, and for the type of music you listen to, it would suit you very well. Box size for both of them would be about 1.0-1.15 cubic feet gross, which is very manageable. The larger box would have more output at the bottom end for rap, hip-hop, and dubstep. These are excellent quality subs, and would give you much better value than the JL 10W6 without breaking the bank. The build quality is very impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryk2003 Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Well, one of the reasons i'm wanting to go with a single 10 is to save trunk space in either car. I like the idea, and the price but i think i'd rather stick with a single 10" sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 Well, one of the reasons i'm wanting to go with a single 10 is to save trunk space in either car. I like the idea, and the price but i think i'd rather stick with a single 10" sub. Here's my suggestion for a single 10" sub that is more SQ oriented and would work well in a sealed box: http://www.woofersetc.com/p-5807-idq10v3d4-image-dynamics-10-idq-version-3-subwoofer.aspx This would need 1 cubic foot, and has a cone area of 399cm^2 and 17mm of xmax, so it would actually get louder than the two 8" subs and be a slight bit smaller, at the expense of...$40. The box size would be of minimal difference. Keep in mind, 1 cubic foot is fairly small. You'd need ~500W of amplifier power. Another one to consider is the Arc Audio ARC10: http://www.shopatron.com/products/productdetail/part_number=ARC10/1735.0.46299.55624.0.0.0 This would need .8 cubic feet but you could run it off of a much lower powered amplifier. It wouldn't be as loud as the one above due to a lower 13.5mm xmax and only 314cm^2 of cone area, but it would sound just as good. You'd need ~300W of amplifier power. Keep in mind, I'm recommending subs here that work well in sealed boxes and sound good on the type of music you listen to. There are hundreds of other subs out there that wouldn't sound anywhere near as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryk2003 Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 i'm liking the 1st one...but, keep in mind that one is only $40 away from the "overpriced JL sub" i was originally looking at. Also, i dont necessarily need to go with a sealed box if you're willing to hook me up with plans and sell me the boards to make the ported box. Quite honestly, i'd be willing to spend the extra $40 for the W6 if i was going to go that route, although, it really depends on what a amp to power either speaker is going to run me. BTW: Thanks for the suggestions so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) i'm liking the 1st one...but, keep in mind that one is only $40 away from the "overpriced JL sub" i was originally looking at. Also, i dont necessarily need to go with a sealed box if you're willing to hook me up with plans and sell me the boards to make the ported box. Quite honestly, i'd be willing to spend the extra $40 for the W6 if i was going to go that route, although, it really depends on what a amp to power either speaker is going to run me. BTW: Thanks for the suggestions so far! The problem with the ported boxes is that they're bigger 95% of the time, so that JL sub will not only be only marginally louder than the Image Dynamics sub (even considering the gains of the ported box), but it also wouldn't sound as good due to group delay. Let me elaborate. The JL 10W6 has a cone area of 332 cm^2. The IDQ10 has a cone area of 399cm^2. More cone area produces more output. The JL 10W6 has an xmax of 15.2mm. The IDQ10 has an xmax of 17mm. More xmax means more distortion free excursion, means more output. So not only is the cone on the IDQ10 bigger, but it also moves more air due to the higher xmax and has a very light cone. I can't comment on the W6 because they don't list that specification. Furthermore, these are designed from the ground up with sound quality in mind, and can be re-coned very easily if you were to ever break it by abusing it or damaging it by clipping the amp you have it hooked up to. Now, going to ported vs. sealed, you have something called group delay. Ported boxes create additional output through the port. Near the tuning frequency, the air molecules inside the port start to vibrate near a resonant frequency that creates additional output. At that point, the sub's excursion is controlled and kept low and most of the output is coming from the port. The problem is that this is called augmented otuput, and all augmented output has something called group delay. There is a delay between when the cone makes the sound and when the port creates the output. This will make it sound more loose, boomy, or uncontrolled. Your transitions for other types of music like country, rock, alternative, etc. will not sound as quick or tight as a result. This group delay is often between 25ms and 40ms for ported boxes. Keep in mind that an audible echo is heard at 50ms and you understand why sealed boxes almost always sound tighter, clearer, and more accurate. And lastly, the ported box would be larger not only due to needing a larger volume, but also due to the port displacing more volume as well. Figure 1.5x the size for a good ported box that doesn't sound like garbage over a sealed box. Now, since you listen to a variety of music, I opted for subs that do well in sealed boxes instead so the sub does more than just get loud. So given that information, the logical choice for your listening and space needs goes back to the IDQ10. Here are a couple of amps I would recommend on a moderate budget: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_13576_Polk-Audio-PA600.1.html http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9711_Infinity-Reference-1600A.html I did not recommend Hifonics amps because most of them are not CEA-2006 certified and they often (if not always) do not deliver their rated power on test benches. Edited October 4, 2011 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryk2003 Posted October 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 You sir just explained that very well! Now I see why the guys that listen to rap and like to rattle houses blocks away would like the JL W6. I like either of those amps and will probably go with the first sub you suggested! Now, as or the box, if I go with a sealed box is it still better to build my own? Also, what size amp wiring kit should I go with? And last but not least, are the links you posted pretty much the best prices I'm going to be able to find on this stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 4, 2011 Report Share Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) You sir just explained that very well! Now I see why the guys that listen to rap and like to rattle houses blocks away would like the JL W6. I like either of those amps and will probably go with the first sub you suggested! Now, as or the box, if I go with a sealed box is it still better to build my own? Also, what size amp wiring kit should I go with? And last but not least, are the links you posted pretty much the best prices I'm going to be able to find on this stuff? I looked into the amps a bit more, and I'd definitely go with the Infinity amp over the Polk. For the box, its still better to build your own. Sealed or ported, doesn't matter. If you're not too far away, I'd be more comfortable just building the box for you and shipping it out, perhaps letting you carpet it with your own material. I have two boxes to build this weekend as it is so I can just throw this one in as well. I build all of my boxes with a 1.5" or 1.25" thick baffle with a recessed flush mounting and are guaranteed for life. Sonicelectronix has some of the best prices I've seen, but you can price shop just to make sure. The general idea is to find 500-600W RMS of power that's CEA-2006 certified. Most brands that get CEA-2006 certified will be decent. Of course, you'll get better deals on used equipment. My sub and amp were bought used. As for the IDQ10, few places actually have it, so woofersetc might be your best bet for getting one. I'd call them up before ordering though just to make sure they have it in stock. These seem to be flying lately. I would run a 4 gauge amp wiring kit, but make sure its true 4 AWG, and 100% copper. That should do perfectly well for 500W RMS. knukonceptz.com has some pretty good kits, but as long as meets the two requirements, you'll be fine. Edited October 4, 2011 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 http://www.amazon.com/JL-AUDIO-10W7-subwoofer-driver/dp/B0009IG6GK this will blow that away for any type of music. reprase that . all music. no voodoo resonance factor vibrating molecules near the port. never heard of that but if you believe that you are nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) http://www.amazon.com/JL-AUDIO-10W7-subwoofer-driver/dp/B0009IG6GK this will blow that away for any type of music. reprase that . all music. no voodoo resonance factor vibrating molecules near the port. never heard of that but if you believe that you are nuts. Yes, it will indeed blow away an IDQ10 for all types of music, as well as it should. It handles 1.5x the power, has a much stronger motor, and costs nearly 2x as much. That's like saying, yeah, the Corvette is faster than the Cobalt SS. Observe the price tag. $240 for the IDQ10, $430 for the 10W7. IIRC though, most people preferred the IDMax10 over the JL 10W7 anyway, which happens to be available for $360 if you want some options. But, of course, the numbers speak for themselves: JL 10W7 Cone Area: 386 cm^2 IDMax10 Cone Area: 388 cm^2 JL 10W7 Xmax: 23mm IDMax10 Xmax: 24.6mm JL 10W7 Thermal Power Handling: 750W IDMax10 Thermal Power Handling: 1000W With regard to your other comment, do the research for yourself before you tell me I'm nuts. Apparently the guys who wrote the wiki page are nuts too? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_reflex a bass reflex system has an opening called a port or vent, generally consisting of a pipe or duct (typically circular or rectangular cross section). The air mass in this opening resonates with the "springiness" of the air inside the enclosure in exactly the same fashion as the air in a bottle resonates when a current of air is directed across the opening Edited October 5, 2011 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryk2003 Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) i think he feels its his job to get into every audio thread you post in and make some kind of smartass remark...i've noticed the trend before...sooo, MOVING ON... Also, seems kinda like a waste for me to buy a whole amp wiring kit considering my battery in the cobalt is in the trunk (factory location), so i'm gonna use a whole 2 feet (at most) of positive cable! lol Edited October 5, 2011 by terryk2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 i think he feels its his job to get into every audio thread you post in and make some kind of smartass remark...i've noticed the trend before...sooo, MOVING ON... Also, seems kinda like a waste for me to buy a whole amp wiring kit considering my battery in the cobalt is in the trunk (factory location), so i'm gonna use a whole 2 feet (at most) of positive cable! lol Ah, yeah. I'm actually working on a cobalt for this current install and I popped the hood looking for the battery and felt stupid . It will make installing the amp much easier. Just don't forget the fuse block/fuse holder. Partsexpress sells those as well as the carpet and the binding posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty98 Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 i really like Hifonics apms! they seem to really put out what they say they can push. as far a boxes go just make sure you have the right amount of cubic air space for the speaker you choose. i have a sony P5 in a banpass box with a 800 watt class D sony amp and it pushes very well. i used to only was sealed boxes but i have less feedback and less destoration at higher levels with the bandpass box. but thats just my thoughts. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted October 9, 2011 Report Share Posted October 9, 2011 Screw Hifonics amps, screw Sony, and SCREW bandpass boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 i really like Hifonics apms! they seem to really put out what they say they can push. as far a boxes go just make sure you have the right amount of cubic air space for the speaker you choose. i have a sony P5 in a banpass box with a 800 watt class D sony amp and it pushes very well. i used to only was sealed boxes but i have less feedback and less destoration at higher levels with the bandpass box. but thats just my thoughts. good luck Bandpass boxes have lower xmax related distortion for the same level of output, but they have massive amounts of group delay. Do some research on that before you make recommendations. Also, not all subs are suited for bandpass boxes. I design these boxes for the correct internal volume, factoring in bracing and driver displacement for optimal excursion control at the sub's rated power. Sony is complete garbage in car audio. You can do much better for cheaper, and Hifonics amps rarely ever deliver their rated power. You'd be lucky if a 1600w hifonics amp delivered even 1200w. If you want a quality amp, get one that's CEA certified. Sent from my HTC Awesome using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 What Andrei said. Bandpass boxes are good at hiding distortion. I found that out the hard way with my first sub. I clipped the ever-living shit out of it and blew it sky high without ever hearing a bit of distortion. And prefab bandpass boxes are almost all garbage. I have seen true bandpass boxes and they are absolutely massive. Like, picture an optimal sealed box and an optimal ported box attached at the baffle and you have a good clue of size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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