Guest Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 :?: I'd like to swap a (preferably new) digi-dash for my analog. I'm pretty sure that they won't simply swap out, but if it is possible, where would I get a digital dash, the pinouts and the harness? It'd be for a 94 Cutlass Supreme SL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronic139 Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 I thought there was something about this in the upgrades section? maybe im dreaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 there is, but since RP has an analog cluster it would probaby be quite a bit different than going from base digital -> to -> guages digital like the upgrade section says (and what i did). it should physically fit no problem tho. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 I've seen the digital gauges cluster go for as low as $15 on Ebay! No, unfortunately they won't simply swap out. The digital gauges cluster is made by Nippon Denso, and apparently they decided to use a different pinout than the AC Delco clusters (base digital cluster and analog clusters are Delco). Since you have a 94, I question whether it will work at all... speedo, fuel, temp, oil, and volts should all work, but my doubts are with the tach. The tach gets its input from the ALDL serial data stream, NOT the tach wire like the analog cluster does. A 94 Cutlass Supreme has either a 3.4 DOHC or 3100 SFI V6. The computers used in both those engines is very different than 88-93. The 3100 SFI's computer is not even in the same family as 88-93. It's very possible that their serial datastream is incompatible with the digital cluster's tach. I know Catalin (Okidedrak) did an engine swap in his '88 Cutty using a '97 3800 SC engine and PCM, and his tach no longer worked after the swap. Just something to watch out for. I'd also like to get a digital gauges cluster in my '94, so I plan to run some tests on the datastream to see if it's compatible. It'll be a little while though, I started tearing the engine apart tonight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 WHOA! watcha doin to the engine? did you pull the whole 3.4 out? joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 WHOA! watcha doin to the engine? did you pull the whole 3.4 out?joshua Nah, just gotta pull the plenum & intake manifold out to replace the gaskets. I think this 3.4 has many more vacuum hoses connected to strange places on the plenum than the 2.8/3.1 did. I'd definitely better make note of all the little vacuum hoses I pull off, otherwise I'll miss a half dozen of 'em on reassembly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2002 Report Share Posted October 22, 2002 <snip>Since you have a 94, I question whether it will work at all... speedo, fuel, temp, oil, and volts should all work, but my doubts are with the tach. The tach gets its input from the ALDL serial data stream, NOT the tach wire like the analog cluster does. It's very possible that their serial datastream is incompatible with the digital cluster's tach.</snip> Hrm. I see what you're getting at. I believe that the data would remain the same, just different bps rates between the older and newer ECMs. My reasoning is that GM diag tools use a standard connector to read different years/models ALDL, and all the ALDL pages use a similar scanner to read in the stream and format it. Still, I'll look into it and let you all know what I find out. RP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 Actually the baud rate is the same (8192 baud) all the way up to the late 90's. The difference is in the actual data on the serial bus. It's either formatted differently, in a different sequence, or certain information (like engine rpm) are completely absent from the datastream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORBI Posted October 23, 2002 Report Share Posted October 23, 2002 I know for a fact that you can put a base cluster in your 94 CS without any problem and wihtout any wiring change because i put a base cluster in my 94CS so i wouldnt put miles on original one, and in my 88 CS i use a dash from a 94 CS and i just pluged in and it works without any work done to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 Just an update on this subject... I used alligator clips and temporarily wired up an 89-91 type DIC (trip computer) to the '94... AND IT WORKS! So I temporarily wired up the spare 88-91 digital gauges cluster... AND THE TACH WORKS! So a 94 3.4 DOHC Cutlass Supreme can use all the digital toys from 89-91. The 3100 I'm not sure about, because the 3100 got an all new generation of PCM. The 3.4 DOHC has an old-style PCM which was updated to support SFI and has completely different pinouts, also lack of ability to blink out codes, which is why I wasn't sure if the datastream would be the same. Apparently it is though! I think I'll definitely get a DIC in the 94 because the oil change reminder and digital readout of volts and coolant temp are very useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 sweet, that gives me even more reason to put my spare DIC to use in my sister's 93 sedan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeZ34 Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 lol I don't need to hear this.. I like those digital clusters.. and a DIC would be cool.. but the radar detector and EQ are mounted there.. hmm How does the odometer get the milage? From the ECM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORBI Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 Base dash and 92-94 Dash will work without any wireing. In my 88 i have a dash from a 93 CS and when i used to have my 94 CS convertible i put my old base dash from my 88 CS in my 94 Convertible so i wouldnt put miles on original one. So it will work without any problem. But if you want to put a digital one with gauges (international) it wont work at all, but analog and base dash will work without any problems just plug it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 lol I don't need to hear this.. I like those digital clusters.. and a DIC would be cool.. but the radar detector and EQ are mounted there.. hmm How does the odometer get the milage? From the ECM? The odometer, unfortunately stores mileage in its own memory chip... which chip this is, and how to change it, I have no idea. Funny thing is, the 3.4 DOHC connected to the digital cluster shows a 5500rpm redline. Hooked up to the 2.8L, it shows a 6000rpm redline! Guess I'd need to modify the MEMCAL to show the proper 6500rpm redline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead43 Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 There's a 1990 3.1 Cutty Rally digital cluster lying around in that Junkyard I go to... ( I pulled it out of the car myself, but didnt get it cause I have a GP)... If someone needs one. I can go back up there to see if it's still in the seat of the Cutty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORBI Posted November 12, 2002 Report Share Posted November 12, 2002 I forgot to tell you if you want to put a base digital dash in your 94 CS about one annoying thing. When i put a base dash to my 94 CS everything worked fine but dimmer didnt work on it and it was too bright at night and very annoying, unless you rewire it except that everything will work without any problems. But why would you want to put a base dash in your CS, Int Dash is better but to do that you need to rewire the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted November 12, 2002 Report Share Posted November 12, 2002 I don't think anyone wants to install a BASE digital cluster! Although I saw a 92-94 Cutlass convertible driven by a college-age girl. It had ghetto looking chrome wheels that kind of stuck out. It was a dark metallic red which I don't see on convertibles very often, and it had the base digital cluster. I couldn't figure out if it was factory or not. Did they ever put the base digital cluster in convertibles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORBI Posted November 12, 2002 Report Share Posted November 12, 2002 Yes they did because i saw a 92 Convertible, without powers, no leather, base cluster, it was like a base model convertible and ugly inside not even power windows. I had base cluster in my 94 but only for about 3 weeks because i didnt want to put miles on original one before i returned car to dealer and during that time i drove it everywere but base looks butt ugly so i was happy when i put original one./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismellrealbad Posted November 12, 2002 Report Share Posted November 12, 2002 haha i like how you buy the clusters to keep fromp putting miles on the car. thats great. It's like undectable odometer fraud, but yet its not because it wasnt TAMPERED with, just replaced....hmmm i wonder if the law covers a loophole like that. youd think they would make it harder to replace these things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead43 Posted November 12, 2002 Report Share Posted November 12, 2002 Well, The guy just adimtted to committing a federal offense... If the FBI, or someone in law enforce comes to the forums, He might have a legal headache. Tampering with odometers is big busniess and people lose millions every year to this.... I don't think you would like to be on the recieving end of an odometer tampered car!! ... He could be creamed....Second of all, the Cluster isn't the only box with the miles..... I think the ECM can show how many miles is on the car plus the VIN SEQ # when hooked up to a GM diagnostic scan equipment.... The mileage disprearancey would become apparent and your busted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted November 12, 2002 Report Share Posted November 12, 2002 It depends on the car. The ECM doesn't store mileage on all 88-93 cars. Not sure about 94+. I don't think the 94-95 3.4 DOHC do since they're the same generation of ECM as the 88-93 but with minor updates. 94+ 3100 and 96+ 3.4 DOHC use P6 32-bit PCM's, so it's possible they may store mileage. I think legally, you are supposed to put a sticker in the door jamb when a cluster is changed which states the old cluster's mileage and the "new" cluster's mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORBI Posted November 12, 2002 Report Share Posted November 12, 2002 I did it only for less then a 1k miles on that car. I didnt want the car to reach 70k and i wanted to still in 60s so i only cheated for 3 weeks and that was about 700 miles on it. And i changed a dash in my 88 CS to analog one and it shows 82k miles on it when car really has 192k miles but nobody cares about that car because i will never sell it. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismellrealbad Posted November 12, 2002 Report Share Posted November 12, 2002 yea i personally dont see it as that big of a deal. its not like hes going out there and trying to buy clusters that he can find with the lowest possible mileage then immediatley selling the car. but then again i dont see anything as a big deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORBI Posted November 12, 2002 Report Share Posted November 12, 2002 Thats a good thing that somebody agrees with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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