MonteCarloDude Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 you can only apply if the car has less than 75k with all original parts nothing aftermarket wow, 95% of w-body was just disqualified.... LOLOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitzel Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 What about AMSOIL's claims of 12 months/ 25K miles per oil change; 15K severe driving (though you have to use their filter for them to guarantee it) Just try it buddy, and see how your car runs after 15k without an oil change. Not on a w-body. Ummm, I don't run Amsoil, but I run Esso/ExxonMobil XD-3 0W-30, which is a full-synthetic PAO oil. My last run was 62,000km over a span of 4 years, aborted only by a leaking lower intake manifold gasket. Upon teardown, there was absolutely no sludge or 'wear' even after running the oil for roughly 40,000 miles. Fuel efficiency was also completely unnaffected. W-bodies are excellent candidates for long-drains on the oil, as long as you don't have one of those damn LIM leaks. Changing synthetic oil on these cars at 'just' 15k is a complete and utter waste of resources. Sooner or later you guys will figure that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitzel Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 This thread = WTF? I don't even know where to start, so I'm not. Lol, yeah, no kidding. 5k mi oil changes on synthetic? What an utter waste! Even 40k mi is a pretty conservative interval on a W-body that is otherwise mechanically sound, using synthetic. I personally would aim for 60-80k mi between oil changes on these engines, *assuming* that you can keep the coolant out of the oil, and the oil out of the coolant. (big assumption there....) And filters...with a full-size filter, the manual specs 15k miles. So round that up to 20k-25k easily if you're using a decent filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Are you f-ing kidding me? 60-80,000 on an oil change? My oil would have only been changed twice in 15 years. I think I'll take my chances with spending $25 every 3-4 thousand miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Fury Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Are you f-ing kidding me? 60-80,000 on an oil change? My oil would have only been changed twice in 15 years. I think I'll take my chances with spending $25 every 3-4 thousand miles. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 This thread = WTF? I don't even know where to start, so I'm not. Lol, yeah, no kidding. 5k mi oil changes on synthetic? What an utter waste! Even 40k mi is a pretty conservative interval on a W-body that is otherwise mechanically sound, using synthetic. I personally would aim for 60-80k mi between oil changes on these engines, *assuming* that you can keep the coolant out of the oil, and the oil out of the coolant. (big assumption there....) And filters...with a full-size filter, the manual specs 15k miles. So round that up to 20k-25k easily if you're using a decent filter. How many miles does your engine have? We like our cars to last for a while. Have you read the article I posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitzel Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Are you f-ing kidding me? 60-80,000 on an oil change? My oil would have only been changed twice in 15 years. No, not kidding you at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitzel Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 How many miles does your engine have? We like our cars to last for a while. Have you read the article I posted? Engine has just over 100k mi on it so far, and is the factory-original engine. Your article speaks of synthetics 'wearing out, becoming acidic'. That is why oils that are designed for long use have high TBN numbers, and low TAN numbers (XD-3 0W-30 is, in fact, rated for diesel engines). Acidity is typically the result of sulfuric acid formed during the combustion process. Sulfur content in petrol (gasoline as they call it south of the border) has never been lower in North America, a byproduct of environmental regulations. As for a 'lot of sludge', after 40k mi without an oil change, removing the lower intake manifold gasket, there was absolutely no sludge in my engine. There was a translucent goo of coolant, on the valve covers and the upper surfaces of the intake manifold, but none of it emulsified with the engine oil. Certainly there's no connection between the frequency (or lack thereof) of oil changes, and lower intake manifold leaks on these engines (which were caused by poor design and poor manufacturing practices). Oil analysis in other 3.1/3100 GM engines shows that, with the XD-3 0W-30 oil, 40k mi is pretty conservative, and the oil has plenty of life left. Look up the UOA's posted by 'olympic' on bobistheoilguy.com with his 3.1 GM minivans. Acidity isn't a problem, iron isn't a problem, the engines are so 'easy' on oil that basically, as long as one uses a quality oil like the full synthetic XD-3 0W-30, and keeps adequate amounts of oil in the engine (consumption, leaks, etc.), excess wear due to the oil will most certainly not be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 With long intervals such as that, do you perform an oil analysis on occasion? My engine doesn't use too much oil, but I will go thru about a quart every 4000-5000 miles. (I usually use a group III synthetic and change every 7500 miles). With a 40k interval, I would have added about 8 quarts, so at least some of the oil is considered "fresh". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitzel Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 With long intervals such as that, do you perform an oil analysis on occasion? No. I rely upon data from a guy who doesn't live far from me who operates 3100/3400 engines, in taxicabs, with the same oil, under the same temperature conditions, and has no issues going 40-60k miles on the same oil, backed by UOA. As long as my engine is mechanically sound, ie: no coolant leaks, then there's no reason why the same wouldn't be appropriate for my engine (why waste $$$ on UOA!). Merely changing the oil early won't detect impending catastrophic failure either. In other words, if the bearings or crank are rotting away -- would more frequent oil changes really save my engine from needing refurbishment? No. And as long as the oil is clean (filtered), and not sludging (easily detectable by keeping an eye on what's going on under the valve cover with a flashlight), what else could really go wrong?? And I take a fairly standardized trip, on straight roads, with no traffic or other obstructions/delays, and no use of brakes, that burns pretty much the entire fuel tank. (about 750km). The fuel consumption figures, as reported by the DIS, never vary more than 1 or 2L over the 2 dozen trips I take over such interval. My engine doesn't use too much oil, but I will go thru about a quart every 4000-5000 miles. (I usually use a group III synthetic and change every 7500 miles). With a 40k interval, I would have added about 8 quarts, so at least some of the oil is considered "fresh". I use maybe 5 quarts over the interval. Most of it because I have an oil leak somewhere down below (likely in the pan gasket), which has gone unrepaired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 lucky... i burn/lose 1 quart every 1000 miles. no blue smoke though, so where its leaking from could be anybodys guess... but i always have "fresh" oil in the pan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Pitzel, so you're trying to tell me that with an already failed LIM gasket and possibly also leaking oil pan gasket, that its perfectly fine and perfectly reliable to keep your oil for as long as you have if not more? Keep in mind, I now have 201,000 miles and my oil pan gasket has just started leaking oil at a nearly insignificant rate. Also consider the guy who drove his early 90's silverado 1 million miles on the same engine also got his oil changed at least every 5k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 I must be lucky, because I have not lost a drop that I can see in 3500 miles. I check it cold before I go to work, or after work, and its always on the exact same spot on the dipstick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 I feel like I'm being a bit of an ass, and that's not my intention. I'm just extremely skeptical about the whole 40k mile oil thing. I don't know how different some engines are from others, but I knew an idiot who bought and drive a Ford F150 (don't recall the year) for 55k miles and never knew he needed to change the oil until the engine seized up on him and he needed a new car. Given what you've just said though, it would make sense that under any driving conditions, the right kind of Synthetic oil might last a longer time, though I can't fathom how. Where would one get their oil checked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 I feel like I'm being a bit of an ass, and that's not my intention. I'm just extremely skeptical about the whole 40k mile oil thing. I don't know how different some engines are from others, but I knew an idiot who bought and drive a Ford F150 (don't recall the year) for 55k miles and never knew he needed to change the oil until the engine seized up on him and he needed a new car. Given what you've just said though, it would make sense that under any driving conditions, the right kind of Synthetic oil might last a longer time, though I can't fathom how. Where would one get their oil checked? I agree with you xtreme. To me, going 40k miles without changing the oil seems irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake91 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 x3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 This thread = WTF? I don't even know where to start, so I'm not. EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT after reading this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 On GOOD synthetic, I could see going 10k... but NOT 40k. Why would you do this, why play with fire? Maybe on a junker, but that defeats the purpose, you'd want to run synthetic in a good solid running engine, on something that you drive often and deserves to be driven often. If you've got the cash to experiment should you fuck the engine up, go for it, but IMO it's idiotic to go that long between oil changes. Hell, I've got to change the oil in the GP right now since it's gone probably 5k since the last one, maybe more. And that's stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 keep in mind the guy here who went 40k+ with his oil has only 100k on his engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdvs Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 I really wonder how much of that "change your oil every 3000 miles" is just cleaver oil company advertising propaganda created years ago when oil was dirt cheap to sell more oil and increase profits? Maybe cars in the '40s and '50s really needed the oil changed that often because oil wasn't as high quality as it is today And since we've all been sucked (programed) in so well, why stop the advertizing campaign now? Like they're not making enough now at $3 a gallon gas Who's zoomin' who Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitzel Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 On GOOD synthetic, I could see going 10k... but NOT 40k. Why would you do this, why play with fire? Why dump oil that's perfectly fine? I mean, once it has been established, through UOA (used oil analysis), that the 3.1/3100/3400/3800 engines basically put no stress on oil (ie: almost no thermal degradation), and dump practically no contaminants into the oil (clean combustion cycle, good fuel control, good filtration, etc.), why would the oil 'wear out', or otherwise become unserviceable?? Its kind of like having a girlfriend. If having them around meets your needs, whatever those needs may be, why get rid of her? Do you guys dump your girlfriends because you've been with them for 3000 miles/3 months? Basically, what I'm telling you is to form a long-term relationship with a good, high quality synthetic oil (not necessarily the most pricey 'designer' brand, BTW -- the synth oil I use costs me ~$3/quart), keep it clean by putting a good filter on the car, and then make sure the engine remains in good tune by correcting any issues such as overfuelling, air filtration, coolant leaks, etc, as they arise. Maybe on a junker, but that defeats the purpose, you'd want to run synthetic in a good solid running engine, on something that you drive often and deserves to be driven often. If you've got the cash to experiment should you fuck the engine up, go for it, but IMO it's idiotic to go that long between oil changes. Its not 'idiotic' at all. New oil contains a lot of crap that has to be boiled off in the first couple thousand km's, that gunks up all your sensors, the throttle body plate, the idle air control, etc. Running a good synthetic on a long drain keeps an engine in better shape because those instruments, and those surfaces are not contaminated with the byproducts of brand-new oil as often. Especially components like oxygen sensors that are extremely sensitive to the Phosphourous-rich exhaust when oil is changed. Additive evaporation is what causes cats to fail early too. Hell, I've got to change the oil in the GP right now since it's gone probably 5k since the last one, maybe more. And that's stupid. Only 5k? Lol! The manual says 7500mi between changes, on the cheapest-crappiest dino oil produced 25 years ago. Certainly it shouldn't be too hard to accept that fuel and oils are of much higher quality today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake91 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Why dump oil that's perfectly fine? I mean, once it has been established, through UOA (used oil analysis), that the 3.1/3100/3400/3800 engines basically put no stress on oil (ie: almost no thermal degradation), and dump practically no contaminants into the oil (clean combustion cycle, good fuel control, good filtration, etc.), why would the oil 'wear out', or otherwise become unserviceable?? Its kind of like having a girlfriend. If having them around meets your needs, whatever those needs may be, why get rid of her? Do you guys dump your girlfriends because you've been with them for 3000 miles/3 months? Basically, what I'm telling you is to form a long-term relationship with a good, high quality synthetic oil (not necessarily the most pricey 'designer' brand, BTW -- the synth oil I use costs me ~$3/quart), keep it clean by putting a good filter on the car, and then make sure the engine remains in good tune by correcting any issues such as overfuelling, air filtration, coolant leaks, etc, as they arise. so your saying we should dump our girlfriends after a year instead of 3 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 You guys can go however long you want on your oil changes. I'm going to stick with what works for me: spending a whole $25 every 3000-4000 miles. If the oil is still good, oh well. That's why they recycle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake91 Posted June 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Its not 'idiotic' at all. New oil contains a lot of crap that has to be boiled off in the first couple thousand km's, so your going 40000 km not 40000 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado_735 Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Its not 'idiotic' at all. New oil contains a lot of crap that has to be boiled off in the first couple thousand km's, so your going 40000 km not 40000 miles That's still a hell of a long way Jake, lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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