EMNCFI Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Ok, I have a 1990 tgp, sat for about a month without starting has new injectors in it, that ohm out fine, but it has no power, can't even get itself over a curb without someone pushing it to help. The injectors are from an auto parts place here in Portland, ran ok up till then. When replacing the injector though, one wire got pinched between the upper and lower intake manifolds, would not start with that done, unpinched the wire, re-coiled it, and re assembled it all, and starts fine, idles fine, has no power, right now it is showing no codes on a diagnostic computer, but there is something wrong, a mechanic says all from jumped timing? to needs a entire rebuild, and thoughts please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 You have a timing chain and a distributor-less ignition system. The chances that your car "jumped" timing are almost nil. The computer could be retarding timing for one reason or another, but a code would probably be showing. I'm willing to bet that at least one problem is that you have the wrong injectors. I find that parts stores don't really have the correct parts for our cars, even if the computer says they do. They probably gave you regular old N/A 3.1 injectors. But even with that, you should be able to drive it reasonably. I would start by either getting your stock injectors cleaned and rebuilt or getting some upgraded ones. I hear people have been having good luck in stock apps with Ford yellow-tops (I'm sure someone will chime in with details on these). How many miles are on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 one of mine did that same shit. idled fine, started fine, no power. ended up it was the coil packs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 I'll second the coil packs but I still wouldn't trust the parts-store injectors being the correct poundage for the turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krenzy Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Ford C302 Yellow Top injectors are the bomb! Zero problems, and like $250 shipped for all 6. www.five0motorsports.com (that's a zero) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted July 3, 2008 Report Share Posted July 3, 2008 Ford C302 Yellow Top injectors are the bomb! Zero problems, and like $250 shipped for all 6. www.five0motorsports.com (that's a zero) Ebay is much cheaper than Five0Motorsports. You can find a set on ebay from one particular seller for $160 shipped. The prices at Five0 aren't bad though considering what most places want $50(or more) per injector. Why did you change out the fuel injectors in the first place? Since your problem started after the injector change, it's more than likely related to something you took apart when swapping the injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMNCFI Posted July 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 MY 1990 has 105,000 on it, although now that it is toy car #2 it got driven only about 750 miles a year for the last 3 years, I replaced the injectors just because it seemed like a thing to do, one was bad, (6 or 7 ohms only) and kind of figured the rest would not be far behind, so I did them all at once, anybody know the accel or msd coil pack part numbers, or a good replacement for that and where to get it? thanks so far for the great help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 Don't waste your time with Accel or MSD, just stick with AC Delco. Many people have had the aftermarket "performance" ignition parts burn up after only a few months. You're not going to see any gain from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 just go to the portland GM dealership and go to the parts desk and they should only be around $60 a piece. get a paint pen also so you can mark the cylinder # like the originals are. it helps to avoid confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMNCFI Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Ok, so here is the latest and not so greatest. I got the car back from the mechanics the other day. New mufflers, new ignition coils (all 3) new belt, tune up, and new tensioner. It was an expensive but necessary day. I drove the car home (about 10 miles) it makes it up to 60, but still it takes forever and if you have to go up a steep hill you better have a running start. When I got home the exhaust smelled strange, and a lot of heat was coming up from under the car. The exhust just after the cat was glowing red (too much fuel) and I got about 8 mpg at 60 mph, also too much fuel. I pulled the injectors tonight, and one of them (front bolck, passengers side most one) has a lot of brownish black gunk on the four pin holes on the bottom of it. Also fuel return line is totally dry where it comes out of the fuel rail like no fuel is going through the return line. I have a couple of ideas, do any of these sound correct? 1. I screwed up the computer and it is sending all the fuel to the injectors 2. The Brownish injector was bad and always flowing fuel to that cylinder 3. injectors somehow not installed correctly and always flowing fuel 4. Somehow one of the vac lines to the fuel rail has disconnected somewhere any help on this? The way too rich mixture though I think is my cause of a lack of horsepower HELP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addicted To Boost Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Glowing exhaust= bad/plugged cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMNCFI Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 That may be another thing, the car has the same no power problem though with the cat cut off and a test pipe in place, all the same too, the return line should have some fuel in it I would think, and that would go with the 8 miles per gallon. I am having my stock injectors rebuilt by a place here, should be able to install on Monday, then praying that it works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 bad fuel pressure regulator maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 did you replace the vacuum harness yet? It hooks up to the fpr. the rubber tees might be shot. are you getting cruise control to work good? don't they have emission testing up in portland? you probably have to run a cat, huh. we don't have it in eugene yet. so you got a fresh set of ac delco stock plugs right? gapped at .040? I don't know if you knew about these cars liking only those plugs .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMNCFI Posted July 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Hopefully tomorrow I will either pick up or order a new fuel regulator since the rail is already off, now is an easy time to replace, found a gm one new online for only about $90, will see if a dealer has one for that price, also hope to have the injectors back. I hope that fixes it, but if not, is it possible that the computer is fried, which would be about the only thing on the car that has not been replaced since new. Will have to see what happens when the new parts arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMNCFI Posted August 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2008 ugh, I am back to the stock injectors now, had them rebuilt, and tested, so they are fine, fixed my smashed wire, and same problem, too rich. Looking at the service book, there is no fuse between the injectors and the ecm, wondering if I could have shorted the ecm, if that were the case did I fry my Jeff M Chip, and how hard is it to repair that chip (POM) since the ecm change is fairly easy to do? would this be a possible cause of running way way way too rich? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted August 15, 2008 Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 the ecm could be your problem. all you do is take off the black plastic fender shroud, then on the box is 3 8mm nuts and you pull it out and pull the 4 big wire harnesses off but first pull the yellow ecm fuse by the fuel pump relay. then flip the box over and remove the 6.5mm screws off the back plate and inside of it push the 2 side tabs down on each side of the chip and it will come out. or it may be the icm, coils, ckp or something else. I just broke down 5 minutes ago on the way home from work like 2 blocks from home I got a spare ecm I am going out to swap in after I have a beer. so join the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMNCFI Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 UGH, new ECM, changed the POM chip too, no change, guess now the fuel pressure regulator? Still running way too rich, fuel return line is bone dry when you pull it off the fuel rail, any other thoughts as to what is could be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 POM chip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManicMechanic Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 PROM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 so you didnt just go to the junk yard and grab a ecm off a w-body? you bought a new one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManicMechanic Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Really. I just threw out two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted September 2, 2008 Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Make sure your x-over pipe isn't cracked. Make sure your IC hoses aren't torn or loose. Fuel pump. The return line suppose to have some fuel returning from the fuel rail. The ECM detects lean from no fuel pressure and opens up the injectors all the way it can. So it just maxes out the duty cycle on the injectors, so now instead of a spray pattern, its just a splash of fuel, not mixing well. Test the fuel pressure. Should be 40-44psi with vacume off regulator,engine on. Put vacume back on and should be around 35psi, run car on street to boost, should increase Fuel pressure beyond 44psi as boost comes on. Replace the fuel filter as a last resort. Ohm your Manifold Air Temp sensor on the intake. Ohm your Engine Coolant Temp sensor on the thermostat housing to rule them out. Throwing parts at it an't going to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1234 Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 any updates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 i have a stock TGP chip in my basement collecting dust, pm me an offer if you want it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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