xtremerevolution Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 I discussed this in a previous thread but didn't get much of a specific answer as to what I'd need to do, and I'd rather not fiddle around and screw something up without at least having a vague idea of what I'm doing. I want to be able to manually engage TC lockup (as I've seen it referred to in other places), or overdrive. This is because the car jumps right out of overdrive the moment I ease off the throttle if I'm going over a hill, and I'd like to be able to make it stay there. More importantly, I know the car can climb a hill at 1500 rpm at 50 mph easily, so I'd like to have it do the same at 1300 rpm. I am under the impression that I need to ground switch one of the wires, but the question is, which one, and where is it? Also, if anyone would care to tell me what the technical term for this mode is and what TC or TCC actually means, I'd appreciate it. edit...is it the torque converter clutch? And is this "overdrive" I'm thinking of just a way of the system locking up the torque converter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 I'll bring you a beer/beverage of choice at Sunday's Northern IL meet if you can tell me what the hell I need to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 I would be very careful. You could burn up the clutch of the tcc if you went too slow. yes, you could set it up to manually control it, but i would leave it be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 I would be very careful. You could burn up the clutch of the tcc if you went too slow. yes, you could set it up to manually control it, but i would leave it be. Is it really that much of a problem if I use it carefully? I'd only turn it on when cruising in 4th gear, and wouldn't use it for anything below 1300 rpm. What do you mean by burn up? Would the transmission fluid not cool it down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 I would be very careful. You could burn up the clutch of the tcc if you went too slow. yes, you could set it up to manually control it, but i would leave it be. Is it really that much of a problem if I use it carefully? I'd only turn it on when cruising in 4th gear, and wouldn't use it for anything below 1300 rpm. What do you mean by burn up? Would the transmission fluid not cool it down? you would overload the clutch, it could slip, overheat, and possibly dirty up the trans fluid, and perhaps destroy the rest of the tranny. even if you think you have it under control, a goof up might be more damaging (ie costly) that the inconvenience of it releasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olds W31 Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 From my experience: I tried to manually control the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) lock up in my 93 TBI Suburban in an attempt to improve the mileage and driveability. If I were to do this again, I would fix it so that whenever the brake pedal was pressed, the TCC would unlock (like factory), and I would put a delay on its activation depending on what gear the computer was signalling for. An example: You have the TCC locked and pull up to a stop sign and forget to unlock the converter. When you pull away, if you have enough torque (I did ), when you shift into second it slams HARD. If this happens more than once or twice, the clutch area in the Torque Converter is VERY small (compare an image to a "normal clutch", you will get the idea). I may have taken my 4L60e down by doing this.... I have heard of people using this technique to improve 1/4 mile time, but even in a Grand National or F-Body, the 1-2 10ths is far more than what you would see out of a W.... One other note, if you do try to manually control the TCC, it may set a CEL and, until the ignition is turned off, factory TCC control will not be restored. Just some things to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 Thanks for the cautions. I do appreciate the warnings since they do give me a better understanding of what I'm getting myself into. I'll have to put the switch in a place where I'll be able to turn it on or off whenever I want to. I'm fairly certain I won't have too much of a problem with burning anything up though, since I'll be very careful. I'll wire the switch to a bright LED somewhere so I always know when its on, and I'll wire another LED to my brake light so I remember to disengage it if I ever forget to. Even given the warnings that people have given me here with the possible problems and dangers I might run into, I'd still like to proceed with this. I just need to know what wire I need to tap into for the switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 I'm almost positive it's the tan/black wire at the transmission plug. If you look at 60degreev6's wiki on the 4T60e there should be a diagram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 Alright, I picked up a nice switch with a blue LED at the tip, a blue indicator LED light that I hope to somehow tap into the switch to tell me when I've got the TC locked up, and a red indicator light to let me know when I hit the brake so I know never to have both lights on at the same time. I'll let you guys know how my progress goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 I planned on trying to find a certain kind of relay that would allow me to use 1 input to turn ON the TCC, and another input to turn OFF the TCC. ON input would be the PCM's TCC command (somehow I'd use this) and the OFF command would be the brake lamp circuit... mehh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 I planned on trying to find a certain kind of relay that would allow me to use 1 input to turn ON the TCC, and another input to turn OFF the TCC. ON input would be the PCM's TCC command (somehow I'd use this) and the OFF command would be the brake lamp circuit... mehh. I would do EXACTLY what Brian has said. you want to be able to release it on command. I have an idea on manually controlling a 4t60e, but I would let the pcm assist on the tcc clutch controlling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 I planned on trying to find a certain kind of relay that would allow me to use 1 input to turn ON the TCC, and another input to turn OFF the TCC. ON input would be the PCM's TCC command (somehow I'd use this) and the OFF command would be the brake lamp circuit... mehh. I would do EXACTLY what Brian has said. you want to be able to release it on command. I have an idea on manually controlling a 4t60e, but I would let the pcm assist on the tcc clutch controlling. That would probably work nicely, though I wouldn't know how to go about doing it. So far I've got my parts ready to set up the car with the way I thought would work best, but if anyone has any better ideas, I sure wouldn't mind hearing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Alright, I've made some progress on this. I decided that I would use two indicator lights to let me know when either my brake is held down or my TC lockup switch is on. I didn't get a chance to hook up the transmission, but I did get the brake light working. Wiring it was a bit of a bitch because I brilliantly decided to splice the 3rd brake light wire instead of hooking up the indicator light first. I also decided to replace my turn signal switch yesterday, which was one huge pain in the ass. I cursed at just about everything in sight since I didn't have the tool to get that black metal plate pushed back in there and didn't feel like going out and buying one, lol. I'll get more pics up when I make some more progress. So far, I've decided its pretty nice to know how hard I have to push the brake in order to have the brake lights turn on so the people behind me can see me slowing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 I couldn't help it... I am interested to see how this pans out. Please keep us updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Well so far it hasn't gone well. I spliced the tan wire hoping that it required a current to engage lockup, only to realize that there's a constant current going through the wire and only when the transmisison goes into lockup does that current disappear. So I cut the tan wire and spliced the part that was left going into the transmission, only to discover yet again that there's a current coming out of the transmission. So I took off that splice and spliced the other part of the wire that was just dangling. I turned the car on while my switch was on (to mimic the car's stock behavior, and while driving around, I realized that I had no 4th gear or lockup/overdrive. Turning the switch off changed absolutely nothing aside from the SES light that would come on. I'm not having any luck messing with that tan wire to manually engage lockup, and I couldn't find anything on 60degreev6's wiki. I want to be able to flip a switch on (or off) to either manually engage lockup, or flip the switch the other way to allow the PCM to control it. So far, I haven't figured out a way. I'm hoping I got the right set of cables. There are two packages of cables coming out of my transmission; one out from the front of the car that's round in shape, and another with a much larger set of wires going into the transmission in the back of the car. I spliced and cut the tan wire coming out from the front of the transmission. Any help would be appreciated, as I really haven't accomplished anything other than drilling a pointless hole for a switch and cutting up a wire that I'll have to connect back together with a butt connector if this doesn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Heres the scoop... its a 99% chance everytime (assuming you get it wired right) that you actuate the switch to lock up the torque convertor, you will throw a check engine light and a DTC will be stored. You should just let the PCM do its job and control it properly or have the PCM reflashed or convert to OBD2 or OBD1 and tune so the TCC locks up the way you want it... But if you must have a manual TCC lockup, then these wiring diagrams should help you............................................... help you realize this is a dual solenoid setup with one of them being PWM... so you should quit while you are ahead. This isnt a 700r4 trans where its as simple as grounding a wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Damn... That's annoying. So I'm guessing it will be more work than its worth to get it to work and I should just fix the wiring and leave it alone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Damn... That's annoying. So I'm guessing it will be more work than its worth to get it to work and I should just fix the wiring and leave it alone? You have a PWM type solenoid used in conjunction, so unless you know electronics damn good and can design an interface, it just cant be done without destroying something... Yeah, fix teh wiring, swap teh L67 in, tune with teh HP tuners, and have fun!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Im actually glad I caught this thread and you in time. It would be a shame to have a nice Regal roast the trans and/or PCM and prolly end up in the junkyard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Damn... That's annoying. So I'm guessing it will be more work than its worth to get it to work and I should just fix the wiring and leave it alone? You have a PWM type solenoid used in conjunction, so unless you know electronics damn good and can design an interface, it just cant be done without destroying something... Yeah, fix teh wiring, swap teh L67 in, tune with teh HP tuners, and have fun!!! lol, ok. Now to fix the holes I drilled in dash. But hey, look on the bright side. At least now I have an indicator light that tells me when I hit the brake. I'll wire the blue one for when I hit the gas. w00t for idiot lights. I'm so glad this car is old enough for me to not give a crap what I do to it. Im actually glad I caught this thread and you in time. It would be a shame to have a nice Regal roast the trans and/or PCM and prolly end up in the junkyard Yeah I made sure to be pretty careful with everything I did and the moment it didn't work out the way I thought it would, I figured I'd come here and ask around before doing anything too stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 But hey, look on the bright side. At least now I have an indicator light that tells me when I hit the brake. too late. I did that already, and they are installed in the rear roof and are visible in the rear view mirror. I used two LEDs, one for each brake/turn signal light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ride Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 damn...I was hoping there was an easy way to do this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 actually, you could just disconnect the PWM solenoid and it will be out of the equation. Its purpose is to soften the apply and release of the TCC clutch (older cars have a fluid accumulator to provide this function) When I messed with this, I had a TCC lock-up problem and I checked it in this manner. The PWM solenoid was disconnected from my original tranny for a long time due to failure. Looks like when the PWM is active, it doesn't allow you to do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted May 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 actually, you could just disconnect the PWM solenoid and it will be out of the equation. Its purpose is to soften the apply and release of the TCC clutch (older cars have a fluid accumulator to provide this function) When I messed with this, I had a TCC lock-up problem and I checked it in this manner. The PWM solenoid was disconnected from my original tranny for a long time due to failure. Looks like when the PWM is active, it doesn't allow you to do anything. If you don't mind, I'd love it if you could go into more detail. I hear PWM solenoid and I scratch my head wondering where the hell that wire might be. If anyone can think of a clear-cut, no-brainer way of doing what I want to do with a switch or two without frying my transmission or PCM (given that precautions are taken and common sense is used while driving), I'd love to hear it. Everything I know about my w-body is based on what I've taken apart and what I've read. So far I haven't touched a transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BXX Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Then cut the wire from the PWM solenoid, and then to actuate the normal TCC solenoid, just ground out the tan w/black stripe wire on Pin D of the trans connector... That will close the circuit and actuate the solenoid... To eliminate the PWM solenoid, just cut the brown wire on Pin C of the trans connector and seal the end or crimp on a butt connector... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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