supreme_style21 Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 94 C/S 3100. Turn the key, everything powers up as it should, but it won't start.. won't crank.. nothing. No clicking from the starter at all, just dead silence. When I'm lucky, I can turn it off, then back on and all is well. After work today, I turned the key and held it there. I got nothing for a few seconds, then it cranked and started like nothing was wrong. A few times I've tried for 5 minutes to start it and it won't.. I let it sit for awhile and then it starts fine. Can the starter sporadically act up like that?? There is no corrosion on the thing and the connections are tight. I haven't traced the wires back though. Battery is fine. Or is it in the ignition switch? I don't have a lot of cash right now to start throwing things at it. I pulled the starter out of a parts car I have here, but I don't want to put it in unless I'm fairly sure. I know if I have it taken in and tested, it's gonna act fine. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 94 C/S 3100. Turn the key, everything powers up as it should, but it won't start.. won't crank.. nothing. No clicking from the starter at all, just dead silence. When I'm lucky, I can turn it off, then back on and all is well. After work today, I turned the key and held it there. I got nothing for a few seconds, then it cranked and started like nothing was wrong. A few times I've tried for 5 minutes to start it and it won't.. I let it sit for awhile and then it starts fine. Can the starter sporadically act up like that?? There is no corrosion on the thing and the connections are tight. I haven't traced the wires back though. Battery is fine. Or is it in the ignition switch? I don't have a lot of cash right now to start throwing things at it. I pulled the starter out of a parts car I have here, but I don't want to put it in unless I'm fairly sure. I know if I have it taken in and tested, it's gonna act fine. Any ideas? Mine has always kinda done that, but not that severely. I think its an ignition lock cylinder issue. When I turn my security lights on (which are tied into the ignition lock cylinder) the problem gets worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRGrocho Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 Maybe the starter solenoid is on its way out? If you turn the key forward and then jump the leads of the starter with a screwdriver does it work? I'm just trying to think of things to check before you dig into the steering column...that's up there with some of my least favorite jobs to do on a vehicle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCRagtopguy Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 Common cause for this problem is this: As the starter gets older, the brushes inside hang up. When this happens, the starting circuit is not completed, so nothing happens. Generally, a little whack on the starter will then allow the brushes to drop down and complete the circuit. In other words, pretty soon it's time to R & R the starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontiac6ksteawd Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 Sounds more like a VATS system that is on its way out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme_style21 Posted May 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 If you jump the starter, she just sparks like a bitch, no action. But, it DID start after that little shock. I thought the VATS maybe, but if that was going bad, wouldn't it kill the fuel pump for a bit? I'm not even getting it to turn over, so I am sure the vats is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCRagtopguy Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 Sounds more and more like what I said earlier. If you give it a whack does it crank then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme_style21 Posted May 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 Sounds more and more like what I said earlier. If you give it a whack does it crank then? I haven't got the chance to whack it yet.. hmm. It's been starting fine since it acted up yesterday. I've got some stuff in the car, just in case.. we'll find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 Starter or Vats. I know for me it was a starter but I had a '92 w/o Vats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBoy Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 Common cause for this problem is this: As the starter gets older, the brushes inside hang up. When this happens, the starting circuit is not completed, so nothing happens. Generally, a little whack on the starter will then allow the brushes to drop down and complete the circuit. In other words, pretty soon it's time to R & R the starter. try getting under it take a wrench and tap the starter a few times if that doesnt work then i would say its the VATS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoStudd Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 It'd only be a VATS issue if the SECURITY light flashes. I'm guessing it's either the battery cables, or the Park/Neutral safety switch. Try starting the car with it in Neutral (or while you move the shifter through the gear range) and see if she'll go. It is possible the ignition switch is out of alignment, but I agree with the consensus that there's a few more things to rule out before dropping the column... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRGrocho Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 For clarification, I didn't mean just randomly jump the connections on the starter... I meant, jump it so that the positive from the battery touches the positive on the solenoid (since you don't get a click or anything)...it should just click...and I think begin trying to start the motor. good call on the Safety switch...does it start differently if you push the gear selector to an extreme in the given gear..I.E. put it in park and put pressure on the selector towards or away from the dash as far as vats goes...you haven't said either way, does the security light come on? Since its been working better after messing with the starter, I would think you should be looking more at the starter than any of the other causes though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme_style21 Posted May 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 The security light comes on during its normal "check" at initial startup, but never after that. I never thought of the neutral safety switch.. good call. Just this afternoon, the doors locked immediately after I started the car... they aren't supposed to lock until it is put thru 'R'... I have no idea if its related, or if its just a once-in-a-lifetime goof that just happened. With these cars, you never know. I'll have to see if it acts up again tomorrow. It has, however, refused to start these past couple days, but it always comes around after a few turns of the key. Took me 5 or 6 tries after work today... almost thought it wasn't gonna start at all. I won't have time to swap out starters until this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted May 16, 2007 Report Share Posted May 16, 2007 Is the remote postive battery terminal nut securely tightened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted May 16, 2007 Report Share Posted May 16, 2007 So this is kinda funny. My starter finally didn't work today. It had always done as Justin mentioned, but not as severe. Anyway, today, it was hot and turned the car off for a few minutes before going out to supper. Go to start it back, nothing. I knew what it was right then. Went in a friends car to supper and got a new starter for 2002 Malibu and came back to the car and started right up. Definitely heat soaking was the issue. So, I'm gonna see how fast I can replace a starter motor tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme_style21 Posted May 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 So this is kinda funny. My starter finally didn't work today. It had always done as Justin mentioned, but not as severe. Anyway, today, it was hot and turned the car off for a few minutes before going out to supper. Go to start it back, nothing. I knew what it was right then. Went in a friends car to supper and got a new starter for 2002 Malibu and came back to the car and started right up. Definitely heat soaking was the issue. So, I'm gonna see how fast I can replace a starter motor tonight. I pulled the one out of my parts car in ten minutes, easier than I thought. Heat seems to be affecting this somewhat too... its a helluva lot harder to convince it to start once she's toasty. I'm gonna have to put a starter in it before it leaves me high and dry. Is the remote postive battery terminal nut securely tightened? Yup sure is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRGrocho Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 yup, I had the exact same thing happen on my Camaro ...this would have been much less painful if you told us about the temperature involved as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 New starter in. Anyone that's upgraded to the smaller high torque starters, were your really loud the first few starts? I know the last time I replaced a starter it seemed pretty loud for a few days, but it's been a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismellrealbad Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 i know this is a friggin volkswagen, but... In my jetta the other day it just wouldnt start.....click form the solenoid and nothing no matter how many tries, no matter how many hits from the hammer. used amp wire (couldnt use screwdriver) to jump the contacts and same result. so ok def the starter. took it to advance, they tested it, worked fine. WTF?? someone there suggested a bad ground, and while i didnt really see that as a possibility i took it into consideration anyways. afyer inspection every wire was corroded. took the wizard wheel and cleaned up alt wire, pos bat cable, starter and trans mounting surfaces, and ground to trans. threw it back in and started right up. then id say the same say and the next day one time each per day it did it again but would start after one more attempt, as oppsed to not starting at all no matter how many time i tried and hit it. is it possible the starter can still be bad after being tested, seeing as theres no load on it when theyre doing that?? also the 2 times it didnt start after resinstalling were cold i believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 New starter in. Anyone that's upgraded to the smaller high torque starters, were your really loud the first few starts? I know the last time I replaced a starter it seemed pretty loud for a few days, but it's been a while. Something's up. Starter is loud, not that big of a deal. This is hard to describe, but the engine stumbles sometimes on startup, only while I have the key in the start position. I guess I would call it a rough start, but once I let the key go back to ON, its smooth as usual. I just took the dust cover off and looked at the flywheel, no metal shavings or anything; the little bit that is visible looked okay. I've gone over this is my head several times and I can't see anything that I did wrong. The starter that was on there had two shims on it so I put those on with this new one, bolts are tight. It has started every time so far, it just seems rough. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme_style21 Posted May 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 yup, I had the exact same thing happen on my Camaro ...this would have been much less painful if you told us about the temperature involved as well... Sorry.. I didn't really acknowledge that fact until Robby said something.. then I gots-to-thinkin.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme_style21 Posted May 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 New starter in. Anyone that's upgraded to the smaller high torque starters, were your really loud the first few starts? I know the last time I replaced a starter it seemed pretty loud for a few days, but it's been a while. Something's up. Starter is loud, not that big of a deal. This is hard to describe, but the engine stumbles sometimes on startup, only while I have the key in the start position. I guess I would call it a rough start, but once I let the key go back to ON, its smooth as usual. I just took the dust cover off and looked at the flywheel, no metal shavings or anything; the little bit that is visible looked okay. I've gone over this is my head several times and I can't see anything that I did wrong. The starter that was on there had two shims on it so I put those on with this new one, bolts are tight. It has started every time so far, it just seems rough. Any ideas? Something has to be catching still ? Is it physically smaller than the old one? Does it need to be shimed more cause of its size? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 New starter in. Anyone that's upgraded to the smaller high torque starters, were your really loud the first few starts? I know the last time I replaced a starter it seemed pretty loud for a few days, but it's been a while. Something's up. Starter is loud, not that big of a deal. This is hard to describe, but the engine stumbles sometimes on startup, only while I have the key in the start position. I guess I would call it a rough start, but once I let the key go back to ON, its smooth as usual. I just took the dust cover off and looked at the flywheel, no metal shavings or anything; the little bit that is visible looked okay. I've gone over this is my head several times and I can't see anything that I did wrong. The starter that was on there had two shims on it so I put those on with this new one, bolts are tight. It has started every time so far, it just seems rough. Any ideas? Something has to be catching still ? Is it physically smaller than the old one? Does it need to be shimed more cause of its size? I think it's in the shims too. The drive gear and housing are the same size as the old one, it's the solenoid and "body" of the motor that are smaller. But, odd thing about the shims I just remembered. When I took the old one off, one shim fell down. After a few minutes of positioning the new starter and trying to get the bolts and shim to line up, I sat it down the subframe and got ready to start the positioning over. When I sat it down, the shim and bolts fell down (of course) but when I looked at the ground there were suddenly two shims. I figured the "one" shim I had earlier was actually two stuck together, so I installed it with the two shims. But, what it could be was the second shim was stuck on the subframe or something and not actually on the starter and I just knocked it down. Anyway, I'll look at it this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontiac6ksteawd Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 I have heard that you need to reuse your old shims, and that you shouldnt use your old shims with the new style starter. So start there, take the shims out and see what happens, if the noise is still there, put the shims plus one more in. you will eventually find a spot where it isnt noisey anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 I have heard that you need to reuse your old shims, and that you shouldnt use your old shims with the new style starter. So start there, take the shims out and see what happens, if the noise is still there, put the shims plus one more in. you will eventually find a spot where it isnt noisey anymore. Yeah, I had always heard reuse the old shims, so I did. I had not heard to not use shims with the new style starter. I'll mess with it tomorrow after work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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