briandors Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 About 10 hours invested and roughly half way through. Maybe I work a little slower than most but I like to "measure twice cut once". Sometimes I measure a 3rd time. Pics, cuz I know you all want them, below. I'll answer any questions you have. Once I'm completely up and running I may post a how-to with tips and tricks. Brian 95 Cutlass Supreme convertible 3.1 with 150k miles. http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/1.jpg http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/2.jpg http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/3.jpg http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/4.jpg http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/5.jpg http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/6.jpg http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/7.jpg http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/8.jpg http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/9.jpg http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/10.jpg http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/11.jpg http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/12.jpg http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/13.jpg http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/14.jpg http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/15.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Brian, Get a new style metal Valve Cover to replace the older black plastic type that leak. Don't be lazy like I am to replace it, especially when you have the intake off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandors Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 I was thinking of doing that, but on another site where there's a lot of dealer techs, they didn't seem to think it was necessary, so I just bought some new gaskets. You think it's that important? How much are the metal ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 I was thinking of doing that, but on another site where there's a lot of dealer techs, they didn't seem to think it was necessary, so I just bought some new gaskets. You think it's that important? How much are the metal ones? It's not going to hurt, as long as you don't mind oil running down the front of your engine. I've been lazy and just have been wiping/degreasing it off stuff. With the amount of time I've spent cleaning things off, I could have probably changed it a ton of times by now. I figure, since you have the intake manifold off, it'll take less than 5 minutes to make the change. You could even go to the J/Y and take a metal one off of a car there and save a decent amount of money from the dealer cost. I'm not sure of the torque specs on the metal cover though. They might be on the forum somewhere if you were to search, but I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 I think my LIM gaskets were slightly worse.. but not my much..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94CutlassSLCoupe Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 I'll be doing my intake gaskets tomorrow...I bought some metal ones from the local junkyard, cleaned them up and stuff...We did the same thing to my sister's 94 (swapped to the aluminum ones) and her's hasn't leaked a drop of oil in 2.5 years, where my black plastic ones and the ones that were on her car are leaking oil all over the place. I just had to steamclean the engine because of how nasty it was from the valve covers leaking. I got my Fel-Pro Permadry's in the mail, and they are DEFINATELY different from the stock gaskets...look pretty good to me. I'm doing the thermostat and the oil pump drive o-ring at the same time just to get everything done with. My car only has 50k on it, but i can't imagine it sitting for a few years helped the gasket out any Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 I got my Fel-Pro Permadry's in the mail, and they are DEFINATELY different from the stock gaskets...look pretty good to me. Can you take pics of the Fel-Pro LIM gaskets? I'm curious as how they look compared to the GM ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94CutlassSLCoupe Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Ok, here's the pics...These are the new Felpro Perma-Dry Plus The thing is that it didn't come with the EGR gaskets for the 93-95 3100 with the digital EGR, so i have to purchase those also. I also purchcased an oil pump drive O-ring since it will be easy to replace. I will be cleaning up my bolts and applying theadlocker to them...it says that specifically in the instructions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Metal! Holy shit! Those look soooo much better than the stupid GM ones!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJansen658 Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Yea they have had those for a while now, but thats like fel-pros third revision on the gasket, they used to look just like the original gm ones with orange rubber. Taken apart many 3.1's and 3.4's that had the felpro gasket on them and were leaking. Hopefully they finally got it. BTW Victor Reinz gaskets SUCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 BTW Victor Reinz gaskets SUCK I almost was gonna buy them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Rockstar Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Man.. I really should do mine here soon Don't be lazy like I am to replace it, especially when you have the intake off. Yours is plastic? Huh.. Mines a 94 just like yours, but the front cover is metal: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandors Posted July 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 94CutlassSLCoupe- I am finding out that 1995 was a transition year for the 3100 LIM. There were two different gasket styles. When you ask for Fel Pros at the auto parts store, or, for the GM gaskets at the dealer, both computer systems show two different styles. Yours is the wrong style for my car. So can you tell me the exact Fel Pro part number you have ? That way I can buy the opposite one. I might be going Fel Pro and returning my GM gaskets (I think they sold me an old design). Thanks Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakiln Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php/topic,46375.0.html This same discussion just keeps poping up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php/topic,46375.0.html This same discussion just keeps poping up Yes, that may be so, but the topic you linked to is not very helpful to this discussion. There have been better ones in the past. Thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Man.. I really should do mine here soon Don't be lazy like I am to replace it, especially when you have the intake off. Yours is plastic? Huh.. Mines a 94 just like yours, but the front cover is metal: The original style is plastic. Yours was probably replaced by the dealer before you bought the car. Mine's been oozing/leaking according to the maintenance records since around 35,000 miles. It's just recently gotten annoying enough that I'm thinking it'll be worth the time to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94CutlassSLCoupe Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 The original valve covers on ALL '94 and most '95 3100's are plastic...any aluminum ones mean they were replaced (i believe there was a campaign for them) my gaskets are MS98004T, which are the PERMA-DRY ones, not the ordinary ones. I believe this might make a difference although I guess i don't understand how the LIM's are any different between my car and yours. The upper intake may be different if you have a linear EGR instead of digital, but I thought the lowers on the vin "M"'s with the exception of the clearance for the roller rockers would be the same. Your car appears to have the stamped rockers like mine does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandors Posted July 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 They told me it had something to do with a difference in rocker designs. Roller versus ball or something like that. Maybe I am getting the wrong information from these guys. If you can, zoom in on this pic: http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/10.jpg You will see that near the intakes, my gasket is only "connected" on one side, while yours has connections at the top and bottom. Doesn't that mean there are two different designs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Here's a quote. Fel Pro Intake Manifold Gasket Set w/Ball & Pivot rocker arms (First Design w/o Push Rod Guides On Intake Gasket) Or w/Roller rocker arms (Second Design w/Push Rod Guides On Intake Gasket; So, the MS98004T has the new design and that works on my car? I guess I was always reading that and thinking there were two different styles of LIM. Now I think what you guys are saying is that the old style of "bad" gasket is the kind without push rod guides on it, and the revised one has the push rod guides built in. But the LIM has always stayed the same???? That makes sense. So the parts counter guys have steered me very wrong. I wanted to go with the revised GM part and ended up getting gaskets w/o the guides. I'm not sure if that's correct or not, as mine were changed before I got the car. However, with how many times the L82 engine has had LIM gaskets replaced by now nationally, I'd find it very hard to believe that your dealership would be stocking the old style gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandors Posted July 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Look at these http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?mfrcode=FEL&mfrpartnumber=MS90562&parttype=102&ptset=A then look at these http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?mfrcode=FEL&mfrpartnumber=MS95536&parttype=102&ptset=A The SECOND ones are the ones my car had. I assume they are not interchangeable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Look at these http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?mfrcode=FEL&mfrpartnumber=MS90562&parttype=102&ptset=A then look at these http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?mfrcode=FEL&mfrpartnumber=MS95536&parttype=102&ptset=A The SECOND ones are the ones my car had. I assume they are not interchangeable? hrrrmmmm.... If I were to guess, I'd say the first (MS90562) is a newer style because of the added areas to prevent leaking from the coolant passages. However, I'm not really sure. Fel-pro MS90562 from partsamerica.com Fel-pro MS98004T: So after comparing both side to side, I'd say the designs are very similar. Maybe the ones Jay have are either a more expensive or newer version of the one at partsamerica.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 No I beleive the older style 3100 (93-early 95) don't have the push-rod guides. The late 95+ have pushrod guides. I bought BOTH (GM ones) and they looked exactly the same except for the added "guides". The reason I bought both is because there was no way of knowing until you crack open the engine... I'm not sure what the guides do, or if you'll run into problems using them on non-guided 3100s... but I'm pretty sure that's the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94CutlassSLCoupe Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 They told me it had something to do with a difference in rocker designs. Roller versus ball or something like that. Maybe I am getting the wrong information from these guys. If you can, zoom in on this pic: http://www.scrantonroad.com/intake/10.jpg You will see that near the intakes, my gasket is only "connected" on one side, while yours has connections at the top and bottom. Doesn't that mean there are two different designs? My car is identical to yours, as i said before...here's a pic of mine with the old gasket still in: This is with the Fel-Pro Permadry installed: So far i'm ALMOST completed, my LIM is on as are my valve cover gasket. I also have my valve covers on, but everything else is still off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94CutlassSLCoupe Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Ok...got mine done, my car runs like a champ, started right up and sounded REAL good...I didn't find any leaks from anything. The fel-pro gasket set seems to be pretty freakin' nice...I'll get some pics of it with my "Aluminum" painted aluminum valve covers...god damn they are bright. I think my car had a vaccum leak before because my harsh shifting seems to have subsided, it idles better, and seems to have more power. FWIW, my original oil pump drive o-ring broke the second i tried to pry it off, and it was hard enough to pound nails with. LIM gaskets is quite a job...i believe it took me roughly 10 hrs...(1 hr was that was scraping the UIM gasket off, that thing was ON there) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 LIM gaskets is quite a job...i believe it took me roughly 10 hrs...(1 hr was that was scraping the UIM gasket off, that thing was ON there) Cleaning and scraping does take time. I think I was 10-12 hrs doing mine, but keep in mind I did it over several days the week before christmas... it was freaken cold!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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