Does e/brake only use inside pads?

[z34_nut]

Thats helpful, for sure...

 

But this is totally irrelevent. This is the case if you were JUST replacing pads. Notice how there is no mention on the rotors. It also never mentions about rotor run-out witch is also critical in a brake job. These are simple steps in replacing the brake pads, or "pad slapping".

 

Title clearly states

Brake Pads Replacement - Front

If there was a section on Brake inspection and replacement, it would be a little more helpful. I know, according to my training at UNO (University of Northwestern Ohio) that I was told many times that replacing/rebuilding (no-one seems to notice I mention that) the calipers was a neccesary procedure.

 

I mean, we could keep throwing information by each other, but its honestly going no-where. I'm not going to budge, and it appears you arn't either.

 

..But I would like to see if you can get a write-up of Brake inspection and replacement, if you can find it.

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

ASE standard of changing/rebuilding calipers just sounds like ways to rip people off, or to cover their own asses.. I dunno. It doesn't mean that they are right though. It's just like A+ certification for computers.. there is lots of extra nonsense which I don't use (like grounding strap when working on a computer) yet I've never friend a computer.

[19Cutlass94]

you really dont need new calipers that often, all you have to do is just lube the caliper slides and the pin and make sure everything work good everytime you rotate your tires, and youll be fine, but most likely the reason why the dealerships charge for that is because it is a "complete" brake job which includes the pads, rotors, and calipers. Its basically a way that they can make more money because the truth is, is that most people dont know anything about cars, so therefore they can squeeze more money from them.

[z34_nut]

you really dont need new calipers that often, all you have to do is just lube the caliper slides and the pin and make sure everything work good everytime you rotate your tires, and youll be fine, but most likely the reason why the dealerships charge for that is because it is a "complete" brake job which includes the pads, rotors, and calipers. Its basically a way that they can make more money because the truth is, is that most people dont know anything about cars, so therefore they can squeeze more money from them.

 

So how can your calipers be fine, if the pads are wearing inconsistanly?

 

And yes, its mostly to protect our asses in sue happy america.

[DOHCRagtopguy]

Sorry man, I agree with GnatgoSplat. I've done several brake jobs on both of our W-bodies and only replaced the calipers once on hers (LR) and once on mine (both rears).

 

Sounds like just another way for the stealerships to make more money for unecessary repairs. I always clean and lube the shit out of the slider pins, maybe that's one reason why my calipers last.

[Brian P]

Funny, I was just going to mention "you must have gone thru ASE cert" because they do stress that point of changing the calipers with every brake job. The way they tell how to do the brakes including calipers is basically a preventive measure. You're not replacing it because it's a "wear item" per se. But they can't say "just compress the caliper piston every time" since there will be a time when the caliper screws up, be it sliders, the seals around the piston, efficiency, etc. By saying "replace the calipers" there's no questioning whether a caliper is fit or not. So it saves your ass.

[19Cutlass94]

defective pads, because not every set is perfect

[z34_nut]

defective pads, because not every set is perfect

 

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

My rear caliper sliders were frozen (car was eating the inside pads when I got it) and my dad's friend who is a mechanic at a dealership managed to un-seize them, and lube them up. Almost 15,000 km later they are still fine. I don't think he would have "fixed" them if he thought they would have needed replacement in the near future.

[Brian P]

defective pads, because not every set is perfect

[z34_nut]

My rear caliper sliders were frozen (car was eating the inside pads when I got it) and my dad's friend who is a mechanic at a dealership managed to un-seize them, and lube them up. Almost 15,000 km later they are still fine. I don't think he would have "fixed" them if he thought they would have needed replacement in the near future.

 

Yes, I've stated MANY TIMES in this thread about REBUILDING A CALIPER. I even put it in bold one time so people would stop overlooking what I write.

[GnatGoSplat]

But this is totally irrelevent. This is the case if you were JUST replacing pads. Notice how there is no mention on the rotors. It also never mentions about rotor run-out witch is also critical in a brake job. These are simple steps in replacing the brake pads, or "pad slapping".

 

I don't see how that's irrelevant? You said it's necessary to replace/rebuild calipers every time the pads are replaced, did you not?

GMESI doesn't say replacing/rebuilding calipers is necessary when replacing pads, and IF you needed to replace the calipers, there would have been no point to bottom the pistons on the existing calipers.

 

If there was a section on Brake inspection and replacement, it would be a little more helpful. I know, according to my training at UNO (University of Northwestern Ohio) that I was told many times that replacing/rebuilding (no-one seems to notice I mention that) the calipers was a neccesary procedure.

 

I don't know what you mean by rebuild. If you simply mean clean and grease the crap out of the sliders, inspect to make sure all rubber boots and seals are in good shape, then I would agree. If you literally mean remove, disassemble, and completely rebuild a caliper with new seals, piston, etc, then I disagree and still find all that unnecessary and wasteful.

 

I mean, we could keep throwing information by each other, but its honestly going no-where. I'm not going to budge, and it appears you arn't either.

 

I agree with you there. You can replace everything on your own cars if you want, it's not my time and money.

If my pads are low and need to be replaced, calipers work fine, seals aren't broken, rotors aren't warped, all I'm going to do is replace the pads and clean/lube the sliders. That's it. I will only replace a rotor if it's warped, cracked, or below minimum thickness. I will only replace a caliper if it's seized, leaking, seals torn, or giving me problems

 

..But I would like to see if you can get a write-up of Brake inspection and replacement, if you can find it.

 

The only information available for diagnostics is:

 

2000 Chevrolet/Geo Lumina - Brakes - Disc Brakes - Diagnostic Information and Procedures

 

Select a document to view:

Brake Rotor Thickness Variation Check

Brake Rotor Lateral Runout Check

Brake Rotor Tolerance

 

And yes, its mostly to protect our asses in sue happy america.

 

Hey, I'll buy that. If you work in a business, it makes sense to do whatever it takes to avoid repeat repairs. The average non car-savvy consumer is probably willing to pay the premium to do whatever it takes to avoid repeat repairs, and the reduction in repeat repairs is good for the reputation of a business as well. Not to mention a reduction in time required to diagnose a problem. In that case, I can see the reasoning in pre-emptively replacing parts that don't need it like the rotors, calipers, rubber hoses, etc. as part of a standard brake job. It's a lot like how TV repair shops replace entire circuit board modules that cost $300/each rather than spending time troubleshooting and replacing a bad 50-cent capacitor by itself. I've also heard that there was also a time that dealerships wouldn't perform ANY repairs to 3.4 DOHC engines and would replace them as an assembly.

 

I just don't think that kind of mentality works well for a DIY'er. I see no reason for a DIY'er to replace a perfectly good caliper, rotor, etc. It just seems very unnecessary and wasteful.

[z34_nut]

I don't see how that's irrelevant? You said it's necessary to replace/rebuild calipers every time the pads are replaced, did you not?

GMESI doesn't say replacing/rebuilding calipers is necessary when replacing pads, and IF you needed to replace the calipers, there would have been no point to bottom the pistons on the existing calipers.

 

What you placed as a quote from GMESI is irrelevent to this argument about replacing brake pads. I wish I still had access to my school program. I would then be able to paste information about brake inspection prior to a brake job, and how it will state that you should always buy all parts for a brake job prior to the job. replace any/all parts that are in question.

 

I don't know what you mean by rebuild. If you simply mean clean and grease the crap out of the sliders, inspect to make sure all rubber boots and seals are in good shape, then I would agree. If you literally mean remove, disassemble, and completely rebuild a caliper with new seals, piston, etc, then I disagree and still find all that unnecessary and wasteful.

 

Pistons are made out of cast iron, then chrome plated. Over normal use, the piston chip and scrape. This removes the protective chrome plating on the piston, and destroys the efficency of the caliper. Cast iron is poures, and will absorb brake fluid, which in turn contanimates brake fluid..there are several disadvantages. Seals around the piston get chewed up as well, and do need replacing, along with slider boots, and all other rubber seals.

 

As for the "we gotta watch our asses" policy that we have, we have been told, several times, never to call the parking brake and emergency brake. If a person needs brakes in an emergency, and uses the parking brake, and she wrecks, he/she will go back to the dealership, and sue us because the "e-brake" didn't work. Its happened before.

[GP1138]

As for the "we gotta watch our asses" policy that we have, we have been told, several times, never to call the parking brake and emergency brake. If a person needs brakes in an emergency, and uses the parking brake, and she wrecks, he/she will go back to the dealership, and sue us because the "e-brake" didn't work. Its happened before.

 

That's just idiocy. It's not like cars are made of fucking Lucky Charms and can magically stop on a dime if you hit the "emergency" brake.

 

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

LOL.. where did "emergency" brake originate from? It's stupid. . I just call it an e-brake cause that sounds cool, but parking brake makes most sense.

[cutlsp]

well seeing as how the e-brake locks up the rear wheels through a cable and not pressure. if you drop the car in neutral and slowly press down the e-brake you will stop.

i've had to do that before on my car it was not fun

you use it for parking and stopping if the brakes for some reason fail most people don't know this though.

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

If you panic and slam your e-brake at a high speed there's a good chance you'll fishtail and go out of control (especially in the winter).

[Redwingvksm]

I use to work for Dick Genthe Chevrolet - In 15600 Eureka Rd, Southgate, Michigan

 

Never have I heard such blasphemy. I have never been told/tought that before. Who ever said that is jaking you around. Not in the ASE pre-test/info pamplets/Michigan Cert/GM Cert. Tests/ect.. does it EVER say to rebuild/replace the calliper.

 

They ARE designed to last w/ the life of the vehicle. My front AND rear Callipers on my car are original...

 

I call BS.

 

[We need a BS flag icon...}

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

[We need a BS flag icon...}

 

 

[joberlee]

I use to work for Dick Genthe Chevrolet - In 15600 Eureka Rd, Southgate, Michigan

 

Never have I heard such blasphemy. I have never been told/tought that before. Who ever said that is jaking you around. Not in the ASE pre-test/info pamplets/Michigan Cert/GM Cert. Tests/ect.. does it EVER say to rebuild/replace the calliper.

 

They ARE designed to last w/ the life of the vehicle. My front AND rear Callipers on my car are original...

 

I call BS.

 

[We need a BS flag icon...}

 

I'd have to second that, this whole thing about replacing/ rebuilding calipers with every set of brakes is crap. I've revived cars that had been sitting for more than 10 years and didn't have to replace a single caliper or rubber hose. Just pads, rotors and hardware. I have had to replace rear calipers on a w body a couple times but never had to do anything (except push the pistons back in) on the fronts.

 

[Guest TurboSedan]

I'd have to second that, this whole thing about replacing/ rebuilding calipers with every set of brakes is crap.

 

i third that replacing the calipers every time you change pads is just ridiculous

[z34_nut]

Well, UNO is curropting its students!!

 

Quick, do somthing about about it!

 

My ASE tests are inaccurate! fuck! some-one needs to tell them, and get that MAJOR problem fixed!

 

or...

 

We could just accept the fact that IS what they tought us, and SEVERAL other people (obviously, they are teaching A WHOLE FUCKING SCHOOL, ALONG WITH ASE MASTER TECHS).

 

I'm not bullshitting every-one. This is fucking rediculous.

[Guest TurboSedan]

totally off topic now so i'm locking this. original question has been answered.