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Well I cant wait any longer for you guys. 23.5 years is a bit long to make a guy hang on. So I just went ahead and got it myself.

Super stoked for this one! Just picked up this 93 tonight. One owner Michigan car! Not a spec of rust accept for around the windshield trim! Undercarriage looks virtually new! Has been sitting since 19, so some gremlins to work through! New top, but not a documented time of replacement. Has the usual oil leaks etc, and a horn / headlamp issue. But I am looking forward to getting acquainted with it! I think it’ll be a good pairing for my 95 as well.

TGPforums.com is now working again. It is still in archive status, meaning no new member registrations are allowed, but the forum is searchable without the need for a registered account.

UPDATE: Got the car back yesterday. A fantastic job was done by the mechanic. Maybe it's just me but the motor seems to be quieter and it's running much better, must be all those new intake gaskets(?). I checked this morning, there is no more oil coming from the oil pump drive, so it looks like the RTV will probably hold. Unfortunately the car is still leaking oil, coming from the lower part of the motor. Not anywhere near as bad as it was though, so for now it will be something I can live with. They also cleaned the engine compartment out of all the oil & grease, changed the oil, and installed a new EGR replacing the original one. Thanks to all for the advice on this one, this is one less major issue this LQ1 now has

Good day, I have been a W body enthusiast since high school 04. In my student parking lot, we had a 93 Gran prix, 94 olds cutlass supreme, 94 cavalier z24, 95 monte, and my lumina z34. These cars were everywhere! My first car was a 94 lumina z34 (still have it). In 2012 I put a 4.9 PFI in it and it is almost complete. I just need to replace the rear suspension and odds and ends. I have a 99 Monte (needs some work), and I just picked up a decent (needs some work) Cutlass supreme. I am buying a new top for the cutlass on Friday. I want to get black canvass instead of the white (the car has black leather interior). They come in black, grey, white, red. What do you all think would be the best color? Just curious. Very few of these ole buggies still around (at least in my area). I thought I would join the forum to see what you all are up to (I feel very late to the party). I already have seen some super nice examples of these cars (nice job everyone!). Ill post more as spring hits and I can get them out, and work on them more. Also, not adverse to loading them up on the trailer for any meets that might happen. Thank you! Hope you all have a wonderful day!

Hi, I’ve just stumbled onto this forum, and i figure I’ll probably need to post here eventually acquired my luminator last year, 2nd owner from a grandma. 70000 (got w 55000)miles. Here’s some pics; thx yall

What they liked the best: The brakes. What folks complain about the most on this site: The brakes. I've said it before, I'll say it again: The biggest problem with Gen 1 brakes is not the brakes per se, it's the brake booster.

Well, I completed my front brake upgrade, gone are the 10 1/2" rotors & in their retired place are a pair of 12" rotors. My approach for this was to maintain the original W calipers & just install larger dia rotors in the same manner that GM did when replacing the 10 1/2" rotors with 11 1/4" rotors. The W calipers are more than adequate on their own merits. The 11 1/4" calipers are pushed further out from center by a later design in the caliper bracket adapter. Seeing as I didn't want to purchase & then alter the 95-96 adapters I reconfigured what I had on the car. To do this alteration one has to remove the adapter that is welded to the steering knuckle. One has to cut away the outer section of the *ears* that the caliper bracket is bolted to. I sourced a length of 1/4"x2"x 12" A36 hot rolled mild steel flatbar, this bar is already stronger than the stamping of the adapters & the flatbar is thicker than the adapter by .050 thou. Starting with the drivers side which being done 1st served as the guinea pig for any mistakes I know I would make. I cut off the adapter, gave it a blasting, laid it out on a workbench & proceeded to mock up what the new longer *ears* would look like to get what was needed. Out of the 12" of flatbar I cut 4 *ears* each the same size, from there I laid out on each one the location where I would need to drill the 9/16 hole for the thru bolt. The *ears* have to be shaped into a circular manner on their edge so as to fit into the valley on the backside of the caliper brackets & be able for me to pivot them to get the appropriate angle before tacking them to the adapter. This mod requires that the new *ears* be overlaid onto the backside surface of the adapter. The new rotors *hat* is 1/4" deeper than the original rotor so the need for 1/4" flatbar to move the caliper back inward to get the proper location for the new rotors. Now the adapter has to be fastened back into place on the knuckle behind the hub assembly, install the new rotor onto the hub & lock it into place with a couple of wheel nuts, bolting loosely the *ears* to the cast caliper bracket I can now place the bracket over the rotor to get an approx location where the position will be that is the same as the original caliper was placed. I now install the caliper & the new pads into the bracket & slide the entire assembly over the new rotor, getting an accurate height position for the caliper on the rotor I now need to check that all of the caliper pad is contacting the rotor face. Seeing as the 12" rotor has a larger diameter one needs to make sure that the outer edge of the rotor will clear the inside edge of the stationary bracket but get all of the caliper pad on the rotor surface. I had to remove the brackets & mount them into a bench vise an carefully remove approx .030 tho of surface inside the very upper edge of the upper & very bottom edge of the lower portion to expand the radius to get the needed rotor clearance as it spins inside the stationary bracket. After doing this I can now reinstall the assembly, position the assembled caliper & bracket, position the new *ears* over the cut off ends of the adapter, tighten down the bolts to hold the *ears* where I want them & now tack the upper & lower *ear* into position. I repeated this same procedure for the right side but it went much faster seeing that after completing the left side I now have a template use for the right side. The welding was simple, remove everything from the car, bolt the cast caliper bracket to the adapter to prevent the adapter from warping while welding, mount them into a vise and run the beads, a flat downhand is best for this, the 71M wire puts down a nice wide bead to get maximum coverage for strength in a single pass. This welding procedure requires a minimum of a 200 amp mig, the wire I used was a deep penetration fabrication flux core wire for argon/c02 for heavy fab work such as construction/ship building. A 70S is not recommended. After getting everything assembled back together the last thin to cover is the new rotors hub opening, the W hubs are 70mm dia, the new rotors are 71 mm opening, this means that a 1mm shim is required to slide into the center of the rotor to properly center it over the hub. This was relatively easy, I pick up some 1mm stainless sheet steel & cut two shims 1/4" wide & to length & slipped them into the center of the rotor around the hub stub, then slide the rotor onto the hub. Worked perfect. It's been 2 weeks now since completion, after bedding in the new pads I have done some mild to moderate brake stops, working up to a few panic stops. The difference is instantly noticeable. The car just hauls down to a stop in a much quicker, shorter amount of time. Now since a few years ago when I did the booster upgrade the pedal feel at that time was instantly changed. Going from a hard, less than desirable *no assist* feel to a one can literally stop the car by using ones hand on the brake pedal, the booster supplies so much assist the pedal is like a feather to press. The pads because of their shape do not cover the entire rotor contact face, approx 70% of the rotor surface is made use of & that's the outer portion of the rotor. I have to believe that the smaller 11 1/4" rotors see this as well, not having had any in my hands to compare the contact area with the 10 1/2" rotors I'm pretty sure that THOSE rotors may have a larger dia hat area that reduces the contact area to something similar to the 10 1/2" rotors, these Ford Crown Vic rotors have a *hat* area that is the same as the 10 1/2" rotor hat. All in all...well worth my time & effort & what did it cost me? ...the price of a pair of new rotors & pads & a length of flatbar.

DOUBLE UPDATE - some really great news to report here. I was hoping for this and it just might be coming true..........I have been monitoring the amount of oil dripping in my flat pan since the return of the car, and its getting less and less. It may just be this was residual oil already on places on the motor that were not able to be wiped off, and I just might something here, an almost non-oil leaking LQ-1. Even the wife noticed how well the car is running, and if she notices, now that can't be bad, can it...........

Welcome! I think black top will look great on it. Better late than never! Not as bustling as it was back in the day, but there's a few of us W-body old timers left. I wouldn't mind seeing pics of the 4.9L in a W-body.

anyways, welcome to the site.

Hey everyone, My name’s Ryan, I’m from Long Island, NY, and I’m new to the Monte Carlo platform. I recently picked up a 2003 Monte Carlo SS and I’m excited to finally start a build thread and be part of the community. By trade I’m a licensed marine engineer, so I’m very hands-on mechanically and enjoy learning the technical side of things. On the automotive side, I’ve worked on and tuned a variety of platforms, everything from basic bolt-ons and wiring to full tuning using HP Tuners, Hondata, and standalone setups. I enjoy both the mechanical and tuning sides of builds and documenting the process. For the Monte, the plan is to start simple, catch up on maintenance, fix worn components, and do some basic bolt-ons while I sort out the body and cosmetics. Once the chassis and body are in better shape, the goal is to turn things up. I’m currently torn between a Gen V M90 top swap or going turbo, but either way the end goal is a "reliable", fun street car that still rips when you get into it. I’ll be sharing progress, asking questions, and learning as I go. Looking forward to seeing everyone’s builds and being part of the community.

The *actuator* was discontinued approx 20 years ago.......finding an NOS piece would be a challenge. The item IS serviceable..........

Gotta love that quality 80s GM fit and finish! And that Regal is very oddly equipped. Bench seat, manual locks and windows, no rear reading lights.....but it has alloy wheels. Then there is this: That cluster must be from a pre-production vehicle, as the tach was never red like that on any of the production ones. My old 88 Regal was a November 87 build, and the tach was green like the rest of the cluster.

Here's a picture from back when the black car was in better days.

I'll have to find some pictures. Best ones I have are from 10+ years ago when the black one was in far better shape. Long story short, engine blew up, it sat outside. Then I ended up with it and moved it to indoor storage but the time outside had already taken its toll. Right now its very dusty and sad looking and buried in the back of storage so its hard to even see it right now. Last couple weeks I've been daily driving my red one. Made me realize how much I've missed the turbo cars. I think technically speaking red/gray was the most rare color combo. If you'd have asked me years ago I'd have been on board with the gray interior all day long. Now I think the tan works with the gold wheels and badging. I'm torn because the chassis of the black car IS that much better. But I've put insane amounts of work into making the red one as good as it presently is. Not sure if rarity of the color combos really moves me like it would used to. Maybe I can use that to my advantage to get more money out of the black one. Some guy on FB wanted to buy both but wanted to pay a very small sum for them. I dono I think they tend to wear arrest me red better then black. I think whatever happens the sale of one and a bunch of parts will fund the restore of the other. I'm still very much torn as the black one when it was running really drove fantastically. I'm just rambling at this point.

If you like the red, keep the red one. It will be easier. I would go the torturous route because I would want the black/gray cloth one. That is what I want if I can find one. Or maybe the red one and swap to the gray cloth.

For me, definitely the Black one. It being Black...and having Medium Slate Gray cloth, that is uber rare in the TGP World. You know me, rarity is a big deal and that one is definitely incredibly rare and sought after. I firmly believe that even though it's not in the better shape, you'll regret selling it later.

Well, from where I stand I would probably look for a 3400 LA1 shortblock, plunk the T-code heads & intake down onto it, & install a custom 3400 T-code engine into the car. I personally wouldn't waste my money on just a T code 3.1

All that work and I ended up dropping and breaking that vent awhile back. Thanks to an extremely generous member here I have a replacement vent. I keep the pair inside packed in a box so I can`t break them without effort. Had an idea and went with it in securing the drip pans and screens. Using some things I had on hand I came up with some brackets that can be removed easily for cleaning or paint. I don't know if it helped or not, but I also used a small wire brush to clean out the posts and put a few drops of silicone lube in them before barely snugging up the mounting screws. Everything holds tight and secure when the hood is open and closed and looks good from the top, underneath maybe different but each side is mirrored to the other to the 1/16" with the exact same parts. It could look better with fabbed up metal stock instead, but the idea works and can be covered with some insulation in the future. It really doesnt look half bad with just the screens and pans, and Ive not even painted those yet. Seems like it could match the front grilles...

And a few years later and I'm finally building a proper exhaust for it. I bought a universal kit off Amazon and put this together this weekend, along with a couple used Borla mufflers that were given to me. It's louder than I was expecting, but is mostly just too much bass and rumble for my liking. I attribute it to the 3 inch pipe and straight through design of the mufflers. I have since ordered a smaller inline chambered muffler that I'm going to install where the factory cat/ resonator were installed to see if it tones down the deep rumble a bit. Aside from that, does anyone know where I can get new or like new OEM looking exhaust tips for this car or have recommendations for a lookalike? I'd certainly appreciate any suggestions but ideally would like to copy the original style.

Hi, I have a 92 Chevy Lumina Z34 automatic with the V6 DOHC. It's all stock. I am new to fixing cars and got it a year ago. Any tips or suggestions is appreciated. The current thing I'm working on it wiring and brakes.

I thought the same thing, but then I saw the valance is intact so you know it's fine.

I so very much hate these cross-era mashup cars, but my retinas are burned so I thought I'd share. https://www.junkyardlife.com/2015/11/luminac-repurposed-1958-cadillac-fins.html

Oh, I didn't know about the J-bodies having the same radio, but it makes sense. I think some 3rd-gen F-bodies used the same radio as the Grand Prix. I'd read the same thing about the amps on the GMT400 forum while searching for info on these, as I'd wondered if I could just replace my CDM module rather than repairing it, but ended up deciding that'd be pointless as probably all of them need those capacitors by now. Anyway, I can confirm the amplifiers are 100% the same between the non-EQ and 5-band EQ models. There is no difference whatsoever between the amplifier stages. They're both using a pair of Delco DM165 2-channel amplifier ICs. In fact, I used my 5-EQ CDM (from GP radio) as a DM165 donor for my non-EQ Cutlass radio because one of its DM165s was blown. There's only one difference between the non-EQ and 5-EQ models and that's the presence of the EQ IC. In the non-EQ model, there are shorting jumpers (yellow arrows in the image) to connect the EQ input solder pads to EQ output pads. That said, there is a newer CDM with different amplifier ICs. You can tell them apart because the amplifier heatsink has vertical fins instead of horizontal. It's very likely that one does have more powerful amps. In this pic, top is old (like I have) and bottom is the newer one. The GMT400 thread did mention the old and new style are completely interchangeable. They communicate via E&C Databus, which has been somewhat hacked. https://stuartschmitt.com/e_and_c_bus/ I think Tech 1 and Tech 2 have the ability to read it with the right cartridge and cable. If it uses a CDM similar like the top one in the previous pic, then I'd bet on it.

Wow, that's awesome!

UPDATE: the car is going to the mechanic on 2/23 for this job. It will be going to a chevy dealer whose mechanic has decades of experience which is exactly what I was looking for. This mechanic is semi-retired and picks & chooses the jobs he wants to do. When he learned I'm the original and 4th owner he took the job. I was asked to supply all the parts which I think I will need. Included with these parts will be a new EGR valve and a new Low Coolant Sensor (due to the coolant being partially drained). I made a copy of Gnat's photo so thanks again for this. I will be seeing how the mechanic feels about just going the RTV route in lieu of pulling the rear head. Not only will the job be alot cheaper, I'd really prefer not opening that Pandora's box of potential additional issues if the head needs to be taken off.

You're in the right place because we love our W-bodies here. Welcome!

So I was watching old motorweek episodes on the 1st gen W-Bodies, and grabbed some screen caps comparing the times motorweek got. I realize this isnt bible but its interesting nonetheless! Of note - the quad 4 manual cutlas was the fastest of all to 60, but had a lower trap speed than the TGP and Z34. Clearly the Quad 4/manual was a good choice for this car performance wise - and their commentary on handling was that it was excellent (the most praise of the four) The TGP had the quickest 1/4 mile time, but not trap speed. The video showed very little wheelspin which clearly aided it off the line. The Z34 5-speed had a ton of wheelspin and tire smoke which seems to have limited its 0-60, but its trap speed is by far the highest. Clearly without the wheelspin this would be the “fastest” w-body and demonstrates the best power to weight. The 90 STE turbo was painfully slow compared to the rest, and especially the TGP. Given that its the same powertrain and the coupes and sedans are negligibly different weight-wise, this was either on a very hot day, or they just didnt have a very fast example (maybe a “friday car”)

"Automatic shoulder belts"

Nothing really. Nothing of that sort is absolutely necessary for a manual swap. All that is necessary is to get rid of the trans stuff so you don't have a constant 6+ error codes and MIL light. Even that isn't really necessary as you can drive fine with no tune changes as long as the PCM is wired to think it's in D at all times. I'm going to leave fueling and timing up to a ZZP remote tune once I switch over to E85, no sense in messing with it now. Other than that, I think the F23 speed sensor is slightly off from the 4T65E as it would read 70 when I was going 73-74, so I adjusted that to match GPS speed. On a side note, I have been looking into extending the clutch master cylinder rod about 1" behind the clutch pedal as the pedal hits the firewall before it's fully pressed, so it might only be 90% released each time which I hope isn't causing extra wear.

If you like red better, I'd say keep the red. At least, from my POV, color is very important and I really like black. I know it's boring, but as an adult, I've only ever bought black cars as I like it so much. I'm not so big on rarity either, and I think you're right that the tan interior goes pretty good with the gold wheels. If you're not as hung up on color as I am, the next thing I'd find important is the body, more specifically, body parts that you can't easily swap like quarter panels. Does one have previous body work on a quarter panel, body filler, etc. while the other has clean original quarters? Body fillers might not give you any trouble for many decades if done well, just a skim coat, and stored indoors. I just feel like there's a lot of value in a really straight car. Other considerations, how much unobtainium do you still need for each car? Do you have the time to get the black one running, or will you get to it "someday" - but "someday" just never seems to get here (that's the story behind all my projects ).

Just my $.02....The one you enjoy driving the most is the one you keep. There is something to be said about a mechanically sorted, but less than visually perfect vehicle that you can simply jump in and drive without worry. As much as I hate to say it, any 1st Gen W that isn't a total beater is relatively rare these days. Individual rarities within that are almost irrelevant when it comes to market value of these cars and I would go for the colour combo I like better, rather than the rarer combo every single time.

I think youd have to do it by generation, as there are some significant changes by generation as well as intent (when you get to the later years there was more of a focus on handling handling vs the earlier focus on comfort handling). In addition, its important to consider that skidpad Gs do not equal handling. Ive driven race cars that would do an epic skidpad number but are so ill handling in transition/under braking/whatever, that they are virtually undriveable. I have the most experience with 1st gen w-bodies, and my vote there would be for the FE3 level Grand Prix coupe with the 245 wide tires. Though I suspect/wonder if the 1990 olds international with FE3 and the quad 4 would be the ultimate iteration for handling. Ive never driven one (almost nobody has) so I cant say definitively, hence my mention above of the 245 tire equipped GP. For gen 1.5, Im not sure. For the last generation, its most likely the 2008 GP GXP. The fact they fitted reverse stagger tires (and engineered the suspension to utilize this setup) tells me someone understood how to make an FWD car handle.

Got the knuckles swapped over and the GXP brakes installed. Going to tackle the e-brake next. Going with a rip-it style handle from an 04-ish J-body and a center console from an 00+ Monte. I have new rear e-brake cables from a 2G, so I'm going to need to figure out how to mate them with the Cavalier one. I know there's a thread somewhere on going to this style e-brake, but I can't find it. Anyone know where it is?

Finally got around to starting on this project again. The window motor turned out to be really easy. Thanks jiggity for the pointers! Just ignore the shawty grinder job. I’ll paint over it so it doesn’t rust. Now I’ve decided I want to try and fix this guide for the glass. I bought the car with this piece already broken and I suspect this is what caused the original window motor to fail. I super glued it for now but I have access to a plastic welder. I’m assuming a junkyard is the only option for replacing these. Removing the glass was a little more difficult but nothing too crazy, I made sure to be really careful with the trim and metal clips. Luckily everything is still intact. Gonna work on it some more tomorrow and see what happens.

Very interesting, you have both a rear sway bar and the auxiliary springs. I always thought it was one or the other. Very nice find!

Wanted to update this topic. The lubricate spray appears to have solved the issue and is holding up the conditions it is being exposed to. Thanks to all who have helped!

Should be 2 or 3 bolts on the seat bottom facing the rear of the front seats. Remove the bottom seat cushion and then you will see the bolts that hold the back seat cushion on.

Actually its been holding up great. I've got over 20k miles on the swap now over 2 years. Nothing major, a couple ripped cv boots which may be because they were junkyard sourced. I highly recommend adding a HTOB spacer. ZZP sells them for around $50. Sits behind the HTOB and moves it closer to the clutch by 1/4" for earlier engagement and longer life. Aside from engineering the trans mount, the hardest part is getting the clutch pedal mounted and situated. The pedal arm needs to be cut & welded into proper position as well. As far as the mount, the low-profile mount I fabbed up works great. Only modification I made was adding rubber bushings under the nuts at the bottom to further insulate the mount from the frame. On an aluminum subframe, it might have to be done a bit different. Might be able to drill two holes and bolt it in the same way, but I haven't been hands-on with an 04+ subframe so I can't say for sure. I'm not a fan of the modified 4T65E bracket method that requires tubular control arms as the mount sits outside the frame. An extra $650 that could be spent elsewhere. There really are half a dozen ways you could fab up a mount but I can say for sure the one I made does the job. 3/16 steel plate holds up well so far. I have also just finished taking the time to document the changes to the tune that are highly recommended for a manual swap: Idle speeds in-gear changed to match P/N as its going to be wired to be in D at all times now. ( I actually added a toggle switch to change between forcing it in D or P, since P is needed for a crank relearn procedure if you need it) DTC codes changed And finally zeroing out all the auto trans stuff: