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A friend of mine bought this off of Ebay and wanted to share it with everyone. Pretty cool historical information of the car's development.

Super stoked for this one! Just picked up this 93 tonight. One owner Michigan car! Not a spec of rust accept for around the windshield trim! Undercarriage looks virtually new! Has been sitting since 19, so some gremlins to work through! New top, but not a documented time of replacement. Has the usual oil leaks etc, and a horn / headlamp issue. But I am looking forward to getting acquainted with it! I think it’ll be a good pairing for my 95 as well.

Actually its been holding up great. I've got over 20k miles on the swap now over 2 years. Nothing major, a couple ripped cv boots which may be because they were junkyard sourced. I highly recommend adding a HTOB spacer. ZZP sells them for around $50. Sits behind the HTOB and moves it closer to the clutch by 1/4" for earlier engagement and longer life. Aside from engineering the trans mount, the hardest part is getting the clutch pedal mounted and situated. The pedal arm needs to be cut & welded into proper position as well. As far as the mount, the low-profile mount I fabbed up works great. Only modification I made was adding rubber bushings under the nuts at the bottom to further insulate the mount from the frame. On an aluminum subframe, it might have to be done a bit different. Might be able to drill two holes and bolt it in the same way, but I haven't been hands-on with an 04+ subframe so I can't say for sure. I'm not a fan of the modified 4T65E bracket method that requires tubular control arms as the mount sits outside the frame. An extra $650 that could be spent elsewhere. There really are half a dozen ways you could fab up a mount but I can say for sure the one I made does the job. 3/16 steel plate holds up well so far. I have also just finished taking the time to document the changes to the tune that are highly recommended for a manual swap: Idle speeds in-gear changed to match P/N as its going to be wired to be in D at all times now. ( I actually added a toggle switch to change between forcing it in D or P, since P is needed for a crank relearn procedure if you need it) DTC codes changed And finally zeroing out all the auto trans stuff:

It's been a while since I've logged in. I was more of a lurker back in those days... But I'm glad to see the forum is still up and operating!! Happy New Year Everyone!!

x2 on that, but, IMHO I wish they could have made the 2 doors with door handles in the door and not in the B-Pillar. These handles are nothing but headaches. And, the Verts would not have needed a basket handle (?) I'm needing to replace my LH Door handle. Again.

For once I condone a thread being resurrected 22 years after the fact.

It took me 22 years but I finally did do that manual swap

Here's a picture from back when the black car was in better days.

I'll have to find some pictures. Best ones I have are from 10+ years ago when the black one was in far better shape. Long story short, engine blew up, it sat outside. Then I ended up with it and moved it to indoor storage but the time outside had already taken its toll. Right now its very dusty and sad looking and buried in the back of storage so its hard to even see it right now. Last couple weeks I've been daily driving my red one. Made me realize how much I've missed the turbo cars. I think technically speaking red/gray was the most rare color combo. If you'd have asked me years ago I'd have been on board with the gray interior all day long. Now I think the tan works with the gold wheels and badging. I'm torn because the chassis of the black car IS that much better. But I've put insane amounts of work into making the red one as good as it presently is. Not sure if rarity of the color combos really moves me like it would used to. Maybe I can use that to my advantage to get more money out of the black one. Some guy on FB wanted to buy both but wanted to pay a very small sum for them. I dono I think they tend to wear arrest me red better then black. I think whatever happens the sale of one and a bunch of parts will fund the restore of the other. I'm still very much torn as the black one when it was running really drove fantastically. I'm just rambling at this point.

If you like the red, keep the red one. It will be easier. I would go the torturous route because I would want the black/gray cloth one. That is what I want if I can find one. Or maybe the red one and swap to the gray cloth.

For me, definitely the Black one. It being Black...and having Medium Slate Gray cloth, that is uber rare in the TGP World. You know me, rarity is a big deal and that one is definitely incredibly rare and sought after. I firmly believe that even though it's not in the better shape, you'll regret selling it later.

Well, from where I stand I would probably look for a 3400 LA1 shortblock, plunk the T-code heads & intake down onto it, & install a custom 3400 T-code engine into the car. I personally wouldn't waste my money on just a T code 3.1

All that work and I ended up dropping and breaking that vent awhile back. Thanks to an extremely generous member here I have a replacement vent. I keep the pair inside packed in a box so I can`t break them without effort. Had an idea and went with it in securing the drip pans and screens. Using some things I had on hand I came up with some brackets that can be removed easily for cleaning or paint. I don't know if it helped or not, but I also used a small wire brush to clean out the posts and put a few drops of silicone lube in them before barely snugging up the mounting screws. Everything holds tight and secure when the hood is open and closed and looks good from the top, underneath maybe different but each side is mirrored to the other to the 1/16" with the exact same parts. It could look better with fabbed up metal stock instead, but the idea works and can be covered with some insulation in the future. It really doesnt look half bad with just the screens and pans, and Ive not even painted those yet. Seems like it could match the front grilles...

My nephew and took her out last night and he's working on making content for the interwebz. A few of the better pics he took at the same place I took the convertible years ago. Unfortunately the P side rear caliper seized up and cooked the nearby rubber parts. That and most of the rear suspension is crispy from being up in Jersey so shes parked for now while the parts roll in.

It worked! Thanks for all the pointers. All I did was reflow the old solder so I left the rear deck cover off for now, the cover was very sun damaged anyway. But at least I have a working key fob now. IMG_7474.mov

Seven years later I finally got to it. Life gets in the way sometimes. It was a splice gone bad on the engine side, orange wire C461. DIC and scan data restored.

She dont look like much kid but she's got it where it counts...

Update. the 9.6121 pads work perfectly. I sprayed them down with silicone during install and not a peep or a squeak out of anything.

That's OEM m'boy.....no muffler shop involved, the GT coupes that were fitted with the dual exhaust, & the STE's were fitted with that small left side muffler. It was done that way to get needed clearance under the floorpan, you notice that the left side floorpan has no heatshield in place to protect the fuel filler hose & the evap lines, but the right side does have a heatshield. That small muffler is fitted with a strap-on flimsy heat deflector that does literally nothing. If you toss the original rusted out mufflers don't toss the trumpets, keep them, those are near to the point of being unobtanium.

Also of note it looks like this car has the half pop up headlights that this clay model had as well, though it looks like they are taped shut possibly? Ignore the filename, definitely not from 1988.

The automotive news show motorweek holds marathons for their older seasons on Youtube and one of the episodes they played had this spy shot of a Grand Prix prototype that I haven't seen anywhere else. I wonder if they still have the picture in their archives.

Nothing really. Nothing of that sort is absolutely necessary for a manual swap. All that is necessary is to get rid of the trans stuff so you don't have a constant 6+ error codes and MIL light. Even that isn't really necessary as you can drive fine with no tune changes as long as the PCM is wired to think it's in D at all times. I'm going to leave fueling and timing up to a ZZP remote tune once I switch over to E85, no sense in messing with it now. Other than that, I think the F23 speed sensor is slightly off from the 4T65E as it would read 70 when I was going 73-74, so I adjusted that to match GPS speed. On a side note, I have been looking into extending the clutch master cylinder rod about 1" behind the clutch pedal as the pedal hits the firewall before it's fully pressed, so it might only be 90% released each time which I hope isn't causing extra wear.

If you like red better, I'd say keep the red. At least, from my POV, color is very important and I really like black. I know it's boring, but as an adult, I've only ever bought black cars as I like it so much. I'm not so big on rarity either, and I think you're right that the tan interior goes pretty good with the gold wheels. If you're not as hung up on color as I am, the next thing I'd find important is the body, more specifically, body parts that you can't easily swap like quarter panels. Does one have previous body work on a quarter panel, body filler, etc. while the other has clean original quarters? Body fillers might not give you any trouble for many decades if done well, just a skim coat, and stored indoors. I just feel like there's a lot of value in a really straight car. Other considerations, how much unobtainium do you still need for each car? Do you have the time to get the black one running, or will you get to it "someday" - but "someday" just never seems to get here (that's the story behind all my projects ).

Got the knuckles swapped over and the GXP brakes installed. Going to tackle the e-brake next. Going with a rip-it style handle from an 04-ish J-body and a center console from an 00+ Monte. I have new rear e-brake cables from a 2G, so I'm going to need to figure out how to mate them with the Cavalier one. I know there's a thread somewhere on going to this style e-brake, but I can't find it. Anyone know where it is?

Thank You Needed a win, its been awhile.

That's impressive for a MI car. It must have not have been driven in the winter.

My 93 STE and 96 Cutlass sedan don't have the big rubber springs...but DO have sway bars. But...my 91 International has BOTH. Is that what you're referring too? Here's the STE. And then the International.

Very interesting, you have both a rear sway bar and the auxiliary springs. I always thought it was one or the other. Very nice find!

Should be 2 or 3 bolts on the seat bottom facing the rear of the front seats. Remove the bottom seat cushion and then you will see the bolts that hold the back seat cushion on.

Saesons greettings all! A fellow member recommended this group so I just joined. Sorry I didn't know about the W-Body group in past years...might have saved me some headaches in repairs, LOL My first w-body was a '91 Grand Prix SE that I got in 1997. It served me well over the years, till I sold it in 2003 and got a '95 GP SE with the B4U package. I'd still be driving it today if the rear suspension/frame hadn't rotted away due to that horrible brine/salt they put on the roads here. Who knows, maybe I'll get another GP someday...I really enjoyed driving that car!

55 linked some w-body specific links. You may also check into the Fiero groups and see how their wiring is done and which PCM's they use. If you're on Facebook go to this group https://www.facebook.com/share/g/16TmFr1XSe/ They specialize in Fiero's, but he's posted a ton of info on wiring and PCM's. the concept will be the same, even if the wiring plugs to match the rest of the car harness don't line up.

In the GP it's mounted to the topside of the right rear parcel shelf next to the speaker.

Ended up being a bad fuel pump as a result of a plugged return line, which also killed the fpr, thanks though everyone!

If you care about originality and how the motor looks to be correct for a 1991 LQ1 car, you would want to stay within the 91-92 model year. You can use a 93 motor as well but the dipstick and tube is the only part that is a lot of work to swap over. 1991-1992 Lumina Z34, (standard with the LQ1). 1992 Lumina Euro 3.4, (standard with the LQ1). 1991-1992 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, (standard with the LQ1). SE, GT, STE trim, (when optioned with the LQ1). 1991-1992 Cutlass Supreme coupe or sedan, (when optioned with the LQ1). ANY W body that has an X in the 8th place of the VIN will have the LQ1. Now...if you don't care about how correct the motor looks in the engine bay, you can go outside the 91-93 year range. The 94-95 motors will work but you would have to do some swapping over of parts to make it look correct. Some things are easy, some are not. The 96-97 LQ1's are dramatically different in appearance and functionality/engineering. They will get you more power but again, lots of internal and mechanical differences. These motors are also interference compared to the NON interference motors from 91-95. If you have any other questions, please ask us or you can PM me personally as I've gone in depth with these motors during my cars restoration efforts.

You know, the ps2 is actually more useful then you’d think, I put one in the GTP and it’s actually quite fun to mess around with while I’m waiting for someone or whatever. i agree with Chris. Leave it how it is, this car has such a huge legacy around here, hell if I had the money and you were selling it I’d so buy it, of course, IF

Well..... one doesn't want anything that is aluminized, at the very least 409 stainless, you might look thru Walker's Quiet-Flow SS series, their recent all stainless lineup may include something close to the original mufflers. Consider that you may end up going to a pair of 4 1/2x9 3/4" 14"shell mufflers.......the left side IS a 12" shorty while the right should be a 14", the right IS a 7x9 shell.

I honestly believe that you're *overthinking* this situation. these 2 are found on Amazon, the *781* is priced $8 more than the *761*. They cosmetically appear to be identical except for *what I see* the park return lever being a *new* item on the *761* vs a *used reman* item on the *781*, there were no piston dia changes '88 thru'93. As for ACDELCO themselves, I don't feel that they will supply you with an item that will outlast another rebuilders product & much of what ACDELCO supplies comes from Asia or possibly Mexico, I personally lean towards Cardone for my *reman* items. They are American. This leads me to my next question....what has happened to the current caliper other than a piston seizing up or a fluid leak that you feel it is necessary to replace it?

Same, I'd rather put that money down for brand new OEM style tailights.