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MemphisMan

Possible Top Pin Cup Solution

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MemphisMan

jman093 (Jesse) advertised some valve stem seals with some random parts on here last year. I thought the seals looked a lot like vert top pin cups so I bought a few. I haven't tried to put these on my car, but they do fit over the top pin nicely. The seals are shorter than the plastic cups, but it might not matter because the pins will go all the way through. Can someone verify if this matters? Also, I'm not sure how they attach to the windshield header so I'm not sure if the stock fastener will work. Can someone post a pic of the stock fastener and about how far up on the shaft it normally goes?

 

Jesse, do you remember what application did the seals come from?

 

Here are some pics of an original plastic one beside the slightly smaller valve stem seal. You can see on the last pic how the top pin goes all the way through the seal, but it might not matter.

post-3600-0-43379500-1490039249_thumb.jpgpost-3600-0-35942000-1490039260_thumb.jpgpost-3600-0-35743300-1490039275_thumb.jpgpost-3600-0-50868200-1490039291_thumb.jpgpost-3600-0-97442100-1490039329_thumb.jpgpost-3600-0-02131800-1490039380_thumb.jpgpost-3600-0-38282300-1490039413_thumb.jpgpost-3600-0-86772300-1490039454_thumb.jpg

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oldmangrimes

Maybe you could email Enginetech or Mahle or some other valve stem seal manufacturer with the pin cup dimensions and ask if they have one close to those dimensions?   They are called "umbrella seals", I think.   The catalogs I've seen are only set up by engine year and size.   

I need to replace my pin cups, I've seen a couple alternate solutions posted over the years but I'm willing to try these.   

 

Someone suggested 3D printing but I would be concerned about the UV durability of some of the 3D printing materials, the pin cups see direct sunlight and would damage some plastics.   

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MemphisMan

I bought some external spring clips this morning. I'm going to try and dremel a couple of small slits in the valve seat and see if I can get them secured to the extra header I have.

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94 olds vert

The seals being shorter shouldn't make much of a difference. The way it is secured might need to be addressed. You can see that the washer is near the bottom of the pin cup.post-3251-0-36458500-1490289937_thumb.jpg

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sean1991olds

It's GM part number 12482062. It fits some 3500s, all 3900s, and lots of LS V8's.

So what is the actual part number of this pin cup... all this talk about these things is making me dread having to replace mine (if I ever have to)!

Is it listed on this page? - http://www.wholesalegmpartsonline.com/products/Oldsmobile/cutlass/CABLE-Folding-Top-Trim-Hold-Down/2649691/12517047.html

Just curious to know what it is on the diag.. obv it is not something you can come by searching for the number.

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Imp558

The seals being shorter shouldn't make much of a difference. The way it is secured might need to be addressed. You can see that the washer is near the bottom of the pin cup. IMAG0697.jpg

can you use a hacksaw or tubing cutter to put a groove in it? I bet that washer would snap in and hold like a mofo then.. Edited by Imp558

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94 olds vert

A snap washer would work really good, and probably hold it better than the factory washer. Put a grove in the outside of the valve seal and then put a snap washer on it when in the header.

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MemphisMan

I experimented on this last night. I didn't get to the solution, but wanted to update everyone on progress. I took the valve stem seal, along with a rubber grommet and external spring clip (both bought from Lowes).

post-3600-0-30103900-1490372854_thumb.jpg

I then inserted the grommet into the hole on the spare windshield header I have.

post-3600-0-04241900-1490373578_thumb.jpg

Then I cut 3 small groves in the valve stem seal with a dremel so the external spring clip can lock around the valve stem seal and test fitted the spring clip. It locks nice and tight around the valve stem seal.

post-3600-0-31300400-1490372967_thumb.jpg

Then I inserted the valve stem into the grommet and put the spring clip on. Nice and tight fit and all is good right? Nope.

post-3600-0-68163200-1490372981_thumb.jpg

What I didn't account for is the windshield frame. The windshield header (which is what I mounted the valve stem seal in) mounts to the windshield frame. There's a hole in the windshield frame directly under the hole in the windshield header.

post-3600-0-67557500-1490385210_thumb.jpg

The original cup is longer so it can pass through both the windshield header and the windshield frame with enough length to attach the locking washer.

post-3600-0-19107000-1490373010_thumb.jpg

As you can see, the valve stem seal isn't long enough to pass through both header and frame. post-3600-0-41861300-1490373061_thumb.jpgpost-3600-0-27682000-1490373036_thumb.jpg

It looks like it comes through far enough, but it doesn't. This pic was taken with the rubber grommet removed...the valve stem seal just isn't long enough. This would work if you wanted to remove the header, secure the valve stem seal to the header as I've shown, then put the header back on the frame. I'm going to look for some longer valve stem seals and see what I can come up with.

Edited by MemphisMan

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MemphisMan

So what is the actual part number of this pin cup... all this talk about these things is making me dread having to replace mine (if I ever have to)!

Is it listed on this page? - http://www.wholesalegmpartsonline.com/products/Oldsmobile/cutlass/CABLE-Folding-Top-Trim-Hold-Down/2649691/12517047.html

Just curious to know what it is on the diag.. obv it is not something you can come by searching for the number.

Not sure of the actual part number, but the number 445027 is stamped on the cup.

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oldmangrimes

What is the length of the original pin cup?   I'm looking at a McMaster-Carr catalog of flanged sleeve bearings, there might be something that fits or can be cut to fit.  I used the diameters from the GM 12482062 spec, but I couldn't find a length spec.   

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94 olds vert

Roughly 1 1/16 inches. Should be pretty close.

post-3251-0-11520400-1490392883_thumb.jpg

Edited by 94 olds vert

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jmjp5055

I experimented on this last night. I didn't get to the solution, but wanted to update everyone on progress. I took the valve stem seal, along with a rubber grommet and external spring clip (both bought from Lowes).

attachicon.gif5D4286A4-.jpg

I then inserted the grommet into the hole on the spare windshield header I have.

attachicon.gifB37B7F2A-.jpg

Then I cut 3 small groves in the valve stem seal with a dremel so the external spring clip can lock around the valve stem seal and test fitted the spring clip. It locks nice and tight around the valve stem seal.

attachicon.gifIMG_4975.jpg

Then I inserted the valve stem into the grommet and put the spring clip on. Nice and tight fit and all is good right? Nope.

attachicon.gifIMG_4977.jpg

What I didn't account for is the windshield frame. The windshield header (which is what I mounted the valve stem seal in) mounts to the windshield frame. There's a hole in the windshield frame directly under the hole in the windshield header.

attachicon.gifPicture1.jpg

The original cup is longer so it can pass through both the windshield header and the windshield frame with enough length to attach the locking washer.

attachicon.gifIMG_4980.jpg

As you can see, the valve stem seal isn't long enough to pass through both header and frame. attachicon.gifIMG_4987.jpgattachicon.gifIMG_4984.jpg

It looks like it comes through far enough, but it doesn't. This pic was taken with the rubber grommet removed...the valve stem seal just isn't long enough. This would work if you wanted to remove the header, secure the valve stem seal to the header as I've shown, then put the header back on the frame. I'm going to look for some longer valve stem seals and see what I can come up with.

873736d8d2e556217fe5abbbef311969.jpgf2d96a415e20d5ed4c5c96c803e5dda9.jpg

b8a66e534ad024bd1ec7c5c6c5fd273c.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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jmjp5055

Heard someone out there has some great suggestions

Pulled these out a 95

Believe it or not they are in better shape than mine.

I’m thinking the cups are there basically the rings aren’t

Something like a washer?

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Imp558

All this over a $.02 hunk of injection molded plastic. Can't the valve seals be stuck in with some silicone? Hell, even epoxy, they won't break like the plastic ones.

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94 olds vert

These are hydraulic line caps for a tractor. I'm thinking these might work. I haven't had the chance to test fit these yet.post-3251-0-19914500-1516153848_thumb.jpg

Edited by 94 olds vert

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94 olds vert

What kind of metal are those made of? It's easy to zinc plate.

I have never seen this post til today. Those are made from aluminum.

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kzwslf

I didn't realize there were that many interested in this part.  I have been working on this for a couple of years.  Got a mini lathe from Harbor Freight and material from Granger.  Several attempts later, I managed to turn one good enough to replace the one that was missing.  I then got an idea before finding this forum..... 3D printer.  Found a friend with a 3D printer and some capable teenagers.  Since I had already made a drawing of the part with dimensions, I just gave it to a teenager with a 3D printer to see what would happen.   I had to use a small bit of body filler and then a satin black paint.  They look pretty good in my opinion. 

 

I just finished a pair and sent to a good vert friend and he is going to install them and let me know.

 

My question now is if there are interested vert owners that would like to replace the guide?  Yes the parts catalog lists it as a guide, part number 12513780.

 

I have considered making more of them if there is interest.  What would another convertible enthusiast (nut) pay for this part?

I would like any feedback anyone has.

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rich_e777

I got caught up in other work but i am certainly interested in a pair or two. I dont mind paying for quality work but i dont know the effort that goes into making them. If you were to get maybe 10-12 pairs im sure you`d sell most of them if they were good replacements.

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Imp558

I'd be concerned the plastic may not last long. We got some 3d printed caps to cover the PTOs on my son's drone and they didn't last long and those were in a padded case.

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