Michael Savage Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 I got to thinking if you do the Throttle Body Heat Bypass could you run lines from the AC unit to pass through the Throttle Body then the other line goes back to the normal Interior AC. If you did this couldn't this cool the throttle body enough to highly Condense the air passing through. If done and cold enough could this possibly increase HP and Torque significantly? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 There has been discussion here about using a/c with an intercooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 problem is the throttle body itself..... the pressure in the low-side of the A/C system is around 70PSI when off and near 40PSI when on. that is a lot of pressure to go through something that was originally meant to see about 15, max. also, i don't think i would mess with it.... the IAT is considerably ahead of the throttle body and measures incoming air-temp there. if you manage to pull in a significantly colder airmass than what the IAT is reading, you're going to run quite a bit leaner. i would just disconnect the TB heater tubes if it really bothered you(not that the 93-95 3100 cars had them anyways) and leave it. the TB eventually warms up to UIM temps, which eventually warms up to LIM temps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Lean isn't an issue with mine unless the fans mess up it runs between 120-160 only get past that on hot days stuck in stop and go traffic. Also running leaner is something I've been trying to do. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 if you ran the engine at a normal temperature, it would use less fuel. a cold engine is an inefficient one, let alone the dozens of variables in the PCM that rely upon the coolant temp being at least somewhat normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Well I get 30-40 mpg it's just always stayed cold Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 The one time my car got to 200 it kept going there constantly. Figured out it was the thermostat. Then it was back to 160. Apparently it likes 180 area in stop and go traffic. It's probably this cool due to the tweaking to every part we put in it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 what are the fan on/off set points in your tune? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Stock 95 Cutlass Supreme Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 stock values for a 93-95 3100 W-body, top row is fan1, bottom row is fan2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 every time I change the thermostat, I change it in the chip to work with it. as for leaning it out, either go into the BIN file and make changes (easy way) or you could get an adjustable O2 sensor bung with restrictors http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vibrant-Oxygen-Sensor-J-Style-Adjustable-Restrictor-Gas-Flow-Inserts-Bung-/271203233600?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f24f8ef40&vxp=mtr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Mine has never got that hot! The ECM/PCM is Cutlass Supreme, but it's a complete custom 3100 build stays between 120-160 fans engage at 186 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1979lee Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Well I get 30-40 mpg Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk HOW??? With a 3100????:think::think: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Block - 1997 3.1 Crank Turned - .010/.010 Roller Heads - 1997 Cutlass Supreme -Pocket Ported and Polished Intake Manifold - 1995 3.1 -Ported and Polished Air Box - 1995 -Spectre Air Filter Throttle Body - 1995 -Ported 1inch and Polished Roller Cam and Lifters - 1997 CSupreme Hypertech Pistons -1997 -Chrome Molly Piston Rings Ignition Module - 1996 Ignition Wiring - Accel Computer Chip - 1995 OBD CSupreme 4T60E 423 Transmission - 1995 CSupreme -Compression Increased by 50-100psi (Haven't tested just estimate) Exhaust - Flow Master 10 Series Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 L67 Ignition Coils Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 An ECTS has got to be out of whack, The PCM is commanding fans at a higher temp than the engine runs at so either your sensor for the PCM is lying to the PCM or the sensor for the gauge is lying to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 OBD scanner shows them engaging at 186 logged in the PCM Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booba Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 30-40 MPG is a big difference, 30 I believe, 40 is a bit optimistic. I would check your coolant temperature sensor, because your fans are turning on too early, if the ECT is reading the temperature incorrectly, then you're fans will come on at the wrong time. If you are running 87, and have increased your compression by 50-100 PSI (also a huge difference), you are going to be burning very lean anyways. Have you checked your knock retard? How did you "guess" at the compression increase? What's your new compression ratio? How are you calculating your MPG? Not trying to be a nay sayer, but this is hardly any kind of information to back up your claim. On top of that, even if (and I'm not convinced) that you were able to pull that kind of MPG, that does not by any means say your engine is healthy. Back to the air conditioner idea, I've seen it tried as an intercooler type setup with the IAT relocated after the cooler. Did it work? Sort of, but it wasn't practical. Whenever you hit WOT the PCM turns the A\C Compressor off, so there goes your cooler air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 I think the A/C intercooler could be worth playing with, but as Robert pointed out there's a lot of pressure so a heat exchanger would be in order, and the WOT cutout would be easy enough to either cal out of the PCM or bypass electrically. As for this other stuff it just seems a bit contradictory, again not to be offensive but a log shows the fans at a cooler temp than the fan tables in the PCM? and 30-40 MPG from an engine that runs cold? Typically a hot engine gets better fuel economy. Again I'm not calling you out but there has to be some piece of the puzzle that we're not seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 What about a Hot Wired secondary smaller boat compressor? Also calculating MPG with Miles driven from full tank to sputtering by how many gallons used so 17 equals the variable of MPG. Generally full tank to red line gets me between 600-750 miles depending on how I drive. Haven't checked it since several tweaks. Also I used a XADO treatment on my Transmission. It's been proven and tested to increase compression by a minimum of 25% and and I did 2 full treatments plus an extra tube. The transmission runs better than a new one. That's generally how I estimated that. Also the car does 0-60 in 7-9 seconds. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 I'll look into why it's running so cold. Don't quote me on knowing everything so technically, but I've checked the MPG about 7 times last year after making this setup and it amazed me. Also 0-60 In 7-9 seconds I am highly proud of. I need to test again now that I upgraded the Ignition, Wiring, and Plugs. Interested to see if that made any difference. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp558 Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Accurate fuel economy testing is about how many gallons are missing from a full tank: 1: fill tank completely 2: reset trip odo 3: drive a good deal of gas out 4: fill tank completely again and record how many gallons it takes 5: record the trip odo and do the math Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booba Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) Wait, let me clarify. Are you saying a transmission additive is increasing your engine's compression? That also is not how you properly calculate MPG. You would want to fill the tank completely, drive however far you want to, then fill the tank up again. Then you take the distance traveled divided by the gallons of gas you REfilled the tank with. Also, 7-9 seconds is a HUGE difference. Example, my 2001 Civic ran 0-60 in 8.4 seconds, my 2000 l32 swapped GTP runs a worst of 6.4...thats a HUGE HUGE difference. Edited March 26, 2014 by Booba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 No I increased the Transmission Pressure. You miss read that line in the list. 4T60E 423 Transmission - 1995 CSupreme -Compression Increased by 50-100psi (Haven't tested just estimate) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Savage Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 I worked on the engine steadily for 8 months making sure every part was working 100% not factory 70%. Took a lot of time to fine tune it by hand. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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