mra32 Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 I want to call to attention that bright and effective are 2 different things (much like pissing out the window and shitting out the window). As an example, flipping on the fog lights certainly makes your total light output 'brighter' but paradoxically, Its actually more difficult to see farther, which is what I'm always trying to do with my lights. This is due to the fact that there is more light in the foreground of your field of vision, so your eyes adjust to that amount of light and the light that is cast further out by your normal headlights has less of an effect aiding YOUR vision as a driver. Your foglights will likely contribute to the glare incident on the other drivers around you. This is similar to HID retrofits in housings made for halogens. The light pattern they cast is typically shit (but you never know what you're going to get since you have all kinds of reflectors designed for all kinds of different bulbs, none of which remotely resemble an HID bulb) and while it may seem brighter, your vision at night is not likely to be any better. Andrei I'm surprised you are a proponent of the HIDs especially when you are frequently publicly masturbating mentally about designing audio systems, which can draw a close parallel to lighting systems. The bulb is one component and the housing is the other, and to get reasonable performance out of the speaker, you have to design the box accordingly. HID bulbs in anything besides something designed for an HID bulb is pretty fucking terrible. I dont care what steps have been taken to make an attempt at mitigating glare, its certainly not effective. It doesn't take an engineer to realize that. On a side note, I find other drivers' properly paired HID setups more comfortable to view at night because of the fact there is less glare. There isnt any fluting on lenses or reflectors like in many halogen setups that will certainly make glare in almost all directions around the light. I'll take the occasional flash from them hitting a bump over the constant glare from other OEM setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazdamx640 Posted December 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 Any chance of you growing up? I'd really appreciate it if you became a responsible adult instead of remaining inconsiderate. Ya I'm in nebraska we have deer and lots of em. Im the most considerate person you'll never meet believe me i too hate when sum1 is following me with there brights on witch is y i dont do that. as for legal or not i dont give a _____________ about laws i prefer to stick to a strict moral code as we all should. ethics are for the greater good laws are for control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 Where at in NE? Ill be visiting Norfolk area for the holidays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazdamx640 Posted December 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 i live by howells but i work in norfolk not sure for how much longer tho im supose to get layd off in 2 or 3 weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 Find out if you have power to the relay first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazdamx640 Posted December 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 what you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 I want to call to attention that bright and effective are 2 different things (much like pissing out the window and shitting out the window). As an example, flipping on the fog lights certainly makes your total light output 'brighter' but paradoxically, Its actually more difficult to see farther, which is what I'm always trying to do with my lights. This is due to the fact that there is more light in the foreground of your field of vision, so your eyes adjust to that amount of light and the light that is cast further out by your normal headlights has less of an effect aiding YOUR vision as a driver. Your foglights will likely contribute to the glare incident on the other drivers around you. This is similar to HID retrofits in housings made for halogens. The light pattern they cast is typically shit (but you never know what you're going to get since you have all kinds of reflectors designed for all kinds of different bulbs, none of which remotely resemble an HID bulb) and while it may seem brighter, your vision at night is not likely to be any better. Andrei I'm surprised you are a proponent of the HIDs especially when you are frequently publicly masturbating mentally about designing audio systems, which can draw a close parallel to lighting systems. The bulb is one component and the housing is the other, and to get reasonable performance out of the speaker, you have to design the box accordingly. HID bulbs in anything besides something designed for an HID bulb is pretty fucking terrible. I dont care what steps have been taken to make an attempt at mitigating glare, its certainly not effective. It doesn't take an engineer to realize that. Another thing to consider is that projector retrofits were MUCH more expensive when I bought mine. In fact, my first HID kit ran me about $90 and that was a steal at the time. If I happen to come across $110 and can't find anything better to do with it, I'll buy the morimoto mini projector lenses and do it the right way. Until then, I'll use what I have. On a side note, I find other drivers' properly paired HID setups more comfortable to view at night because of the fact there is less glare. There isnt any fluting on lenses or reflectors like in many halogen setups that will certainly make glare in almost all directions around the light. I'll take the occasional flash from them hitting a bump over the constant glare from other OEM setups. I'm going to assume that you've never actually run HIDs in your car. Here are a few things I noticed when I installed my kit for the first time and adjusted the headlights. 1. much farther visibility. Having aligned them just below the horizon, I was able to see things a significant difference further away. I have avoided collisions with deer on a number of occasions due to having seen them much sooner. 2. much wider visibility. This was huge. All of a sudden, the sides of the road lit up and I could see better around me. Your argument that it creates more light and makes it difficult to see is null and void. I'd invite you to drive my car with and without HIDs at night and tell me which you'd prefer. Don't assume everyone who uses them and continues to use them is a complete idiot just because you think you're right and they obviously don't know something you do. After I installed them, I noticed a few people in oncoming traffic flashing a high beam at me, so I figured it was bothering them. That's when I took out my lenses, masked the side and top reflectors, and painted the bottom one black. Why? Because the black will reflect light upward. My projected light pattern as a result more closely resembles that of a projector lens in that there's a distinct cut-off after a certain horizontal line. I adjusted my headlights again based on that cutoff line and I haven't been flashed by other drivers since. My visibility is better, its safer during my trips to California and back, and I've avoided a few accidents that I may not have been able to otherwise. It doesn't take an engineer to realize that either. I admit its not ideal, but calling it "fucking terrible" is a stretch. Its better than without them. Perhaps my headlight housings are different than other peoples'. Who knows. All I know is that there is no way I'm going back to 55W halogens, even if you paid me to. I'm RARELY scared while driving, but when I went through Colorado one winter and the salt and dirt started to create a layer on my lenses, I have to admit I got pretty worried, and that's the reason I bought them. In case you're wondering, no, I couldn't just get off at an exit to clean them, because they would get dirty again within seconds. There also aren't as many exits as you'd like in those parts either. When I can afford to drop $100-$150 for a proper HID retrofit (I don't want to use mini lenses, I'd prefer to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 I was wrong. not everyone can understand the difference between output and feedback. Just dont put HIDs in your Halogen-style low beam reflector. Do whatever for high beams, its your car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 (edited) I was wrong. not everyone can understand the difference between output and feedback. Just dont put HIDs in your Halogen-style low beam reflector. Do whatever for high beams, its your car. You just let me know when you're ready to talk to me like a human being and we can continue this "discussion." A little respect shouldn't be that much to ask for. I was polite in my response despite disagreeing with you and I shouldn't have to ask you to do the same. I've ignored your attitude toward me several times, but I'm asking you to stop. I don't need a commentary judging everything I say to someone else. Sent from my HTC Awesome using Tapatalk Edited December 18, 2011 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadz34 Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 Calm down guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazdamx640 Posted December 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 ^ what he said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel87 Posted December 18, 2011 Report Share Posted December 18, 2011 But just out of curiosity, if you put HID on your car because of the salt and dirt that got on the lens, wouldn't that still happen? I don't see the difference in HID with dirt on them and OEM high beams with dirt on them. Either way you'll still get dirt and salt on them I just don't see how HID can make our situation a whole lot better. My whole feel on HID, in fact all lighting style, if it doesn't blind other people I don't really care. Maybe no one knows how to align them but almost every person I see driving around with HIDs they are extremely bright and make me nervous when they drive behind me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) But just out of curiosity, if you put HID on your car because of the salt and dirt that got on the lens, wouldn't that still happen? I don't see the difference in HID with dirt on them and OEM high beams with dirt on them. Either way you'll still get dirt and salt on them I just don't see how HID can make our situation a whole lot better. My whole feel on HID, in fact all lighting style, if it doesn't blind other people I don't really care. Maybe no one knows how to align them but almost every person I see driving around with HIDs they are extremely bright and make me nervous when they drive behind me. The factory lighting was so weak that I couldn't see where I was going. The HIDs seem to penetrate through the salt and dirt a lot better. I'm never going back to halogens. The factory halogens on the bonneville gxp and on the regal gse were far brighter than they were on my car. I'm not just pulling this out of my ass. I am considering a projector retrofit when I get my bonus in a couple of months. Sent from my HTC Awesome using Tapatalk Edited December 19, 2011 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFehl Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 I'm looking at upgrading my lights too now. I found a video someone on here posted, though I don't remember who(sorry). Was considering HIR's until I saw this:[video=youtube;vg3IA-KZ8Vw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg3IA-KZ8Vw 6000k lowbeams 3000k foglights Any suggestions on kits to buy? There's some for cheap on ebay, but if I have to silicone seal these in, I don't want them burning out within a few months. And tbh, I have no idea what bulbs to put in my fogs or how/if those come out of the lens. I still fail to understand why people would screw around with effectively jerry-rigging and glueing in bulbs to the housings of their factory miniquads when it is one of the few aftermarket things available for these cars... http://www.eurolamps.com/eurolamps/camaro_headlights.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oilpatch197 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) Look, in my '92 Regal, HID's are just NOT worth it. I settled with GE NightHawks, I have read that Phillips Xtreme bulbs are great as well. I replaced both my 9005 and 9006 bulbs with GE nighthawks, they are much brighter than a new "long life" bulb. I also use Plexus on the lenses, to keep then nice and clear. Since the ONLY after market replacements are some "chepo Depo's" with inferior optics. BTW what is up with this model? when I type in "1993 grand prix" I get photos of two body styles? Edited December 19, 2011 by Oilpatch197 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skitchin Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 I still fail to understand why people would screw around with effectively jerry-rigging and glueing in bulbs to the housings of their factory miniquads when it is one of the few aftermarket things available for these cars... http://www.eurolamps.com/eurolamps/camaro_headlights.htm Nate and I were talking about that exact bulb in chat earlier today. It looks appealing except for the blue tint on the lens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFehl Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 It's the bulb itself, not the lens. I've had these in my car for over a year now. Ive been happy with them. Huge improvement over stock and just a lot nicer to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFehl Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 And I still say leave the headlights at a good quality standard bulb, save the HIDs for the fogs. That way you can turn them on when you need them and off when you don't/don't want to blind others, and still be legal with headlights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) I still fail to understand why people would screw around with effectively jerry-rigging and glueing in bulbs to the housings of their factory miniquads when it is one of the few aftermarket things available for these cars... http://www.eurolamps.com/eurolamps/camaro_headlights.htm What makes them so special? To me they look like a "fake" HID bulb. HIDs use xenon gas. The difference you have to consider here is the functional difference in the way both of these bulbs work. Halogens use a filament that is heated to extreme temperatures. The heat as a result is what creates the light. The Halogen gas inside the glass enclosure keeps the filament from oxidizing. The way that HID bulbs work is by use of a ballast that produces a very high voltage (IIRC somewhere in the hundreds of thousands) pulse to ignite the gas inside the glass capsule. From that point forward, once the light is ignited, all it takes is a small trickle of current to keep the gas molecules excited enough to keep producing light, hence the reason why you get 3-4x more light with a 35W "HID" bulb than you do with a 55W halogen bulb. Knowing that, these can't possibly be xenon bulbs. The Xenon gas doesn't technically ignite because there's insufficient voltage. Honestly, these look like complete fakes, with a blue tint on the bulb to make them *look* brighter than they are due to being a whiter color. Any time you have to coat a bulb with a specific color, you lose output, period. My guess is these produce higher output by way of running at a higher wattage. This is not only unsafe due to the heat produced in the housing (which is why they provide you with a glass lens as a kit on that site), but also due to the higher current draw on your wiring. Here's a website that confirms what I've suspected: http://www.hidinformation.com/hid-vs-xenon-blue-halogen-bulbs/ Many halogen bulbs sold on the market will claim they are xenon charged, however this is a marketing scheme. In fact, the so claimed “xenon bulbs” sold on the market through brands such as Lumincs, Nokya and other generics are higher wattage halogen bulbs with blue tinted glass. From our scientific test, these bulbs will yield less output and put your vehicles wiring at a greater risk than the factory bulbs. These fake xenon bulbs also last 1/2 times the normal life of OEM halogen bulbs, putting you in a situation of switching bulbs every few months. There is another type of halogen bulb myth where they claim to consume 55W but produce 85W of light. These claims are scams and are simply not true. The laws of physics are the laws of physics, there is no way to get 85W of light for 55W of electricity. These tinted bulbs aren’t any better. Feel free to look around and do the research for yourself if you don't believe me. The facts are right there. For the record, "eurolamps.com" looks like a shady enough website that I wouldn't buy from them. Some of the links on their site are dead and it looks like a cookie cutter website that someone threw together. Edited December 19, 2011 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mra32 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) I think Fehl was merely speaking of getting the housings with replaceable bulbs for the mini quads as opposed to mangling the typical sealed beam things, ease up br0. I would maybe look for a different place the sells the conversion kits, if possible. Seems like the customer service is on the low end, but consumers tend to be happy in the end. I dont think anyone is certain what car the OP drives yet, which will determine his options Edited December 19, 2011 by mra32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 I think Fehl was merely speaking of getting the housings with replaceable bulbs for the mini quads as opposed to mangling the typical sealed beam things, ease up br0. I would maybe look for a different place the sells the conversion kits, if possible. Seems like the customer service is on the low end, but consumers tend to be happy in the end. I dont think anyone is certain what car the OP drives yet, which will determine his options If he was referring to the housings and not the bulbs, then you can ignore what I said. I had the impression he was talking about those blue colored bulbs. Someone else also replied to him talking about the bulbs. I figured if not for him, then for the other person who mentioned them, what I said would at least be relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Look, in my '92 Regal, HID's are just NOT worth it. I settled with GE NightHawks, I have read that Phillips Xtreme bulbs are great as well. I replaced both my 9005 and 9006 bulbs with GE nighthawks, they are much brighter than a new "long life" bulb. I also use Plexus on the lenses, to keep then nice and clear. Since the ONLY after market replacements are some "chepo Depo's" with inferior optics. BTW what is up with this model? when I type in "1993 grand prix" I get photos of two body styles? Nighthawks are amazing bulbs. Another good one to look up would be the Osram Silverstars (not the Sylvania ones, those are blue-coated garbage) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2001goldGTP Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 I have projects for my gtp, yes the shity ebay ones. regardless of the problems with the housing that i knew about going into this, i love the light output of these things, way better than stock on my 01 gtp which i thought was miles ahead of my 90. I am looking into doing some kind of retrofit for the cutlass. I do agree 6K lights are too blue, get 4300. Also I have my lights pointed where the cutoff is even or lower than the bumper on most cars and I still have light way down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremerevolution Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) Nighthawks are amazing bulbs. Another good one to look up would be the Osram Silverstars (not the Sylvania ones, those are blue-coated garbage) Nighthawks and Osram silverstars seem to be legitimately better factory replacements. After digging up some research on these, it seems that the filament is more efficient, though the price increase doesn't merit their performance increase. http://www.w-body.com/showthread.php/47097-Non-Factory-Lighting-for-Dummies-HID-HIR-etc While an OEM 9006 bulb produces 1000 lumens, a GE Nighthawk produces 1150 lumens, a 15% increase. At that point, you'd be better off just modifying a 9005 bulb (which requires shaving off part of one of the notches), or running an HIR bulb for the same price. That is, if you're set on avoiding HID kits, which is fine. I'm surprised nobody here has actually mentioned the use of HIR bulbs as factory replacements. With a light output of 1875 - 2350 lumens as a direct replacement, it doesn't make much sense to burn money on the Nighthawks or Silverstars, especially given the increase in output. http://www.amazon.com/Philips-HIR2-Standard-Halogen-Headlight/dp/B00480N18G http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00480J5CW/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00480N18G&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0212HN9DMG032AX6FEX9 To summarize: OEM 9006: 1000 lumens GE Nighthawk: 1150 lumens OEM 9005 (which can be modified to fit 9006 socket): 1700 lumens HIR 9012 (direct replacement for 9006): 1870 lumens HIR 9011 (direct replacement for 9005): 2350 lumens 35W HID: 2800 lumens Edited December 19, 2011 by xtremerevolution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFehl Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 I was talking about the housings. I've also been very happy with my experience with mine and that company. Please quit over analyzing things Andrei. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.