Garrett Powered Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I talked with many people on this topic including the snap on tool truck guy. they all said tighten it down with a good rattle gun. so that is what I did and I am riding on glass. the hand "bench test" method I would not rely on. the bearing might still be good if it has some slop in it. I think I replaced mine and didn't need to. reason why is it was a brand new timken. and the new timken I put on, I stuck the axle in it after I thought it felt tight out of the box, but when I got it on the car, without the axle nut torqued it was suddenly all sloppy. then I rattle gunned the nut on fully tight, and it was not sloppy. I would conclude that non-mechanics would like to think they are experts. book experts is what they really are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I also found out why it was loose the first time I used the impact. the gun had a muffler and my mechanic had told me to turn off the muffler thingy because it robs power. so I didn't listen well enough. next I used a different gun that was better and newer and payed better attention to the nut as it tightened. it has to be either tightened by the big torque wrench and you would have to pretty much stand on it, or what most guys do, which is what I did. oh, and the guy that built both of my transmissions told me the exact same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 When I had my halfshafts out I impacted them on, then checked torque with a clicker wrench. They weren't even 2/3 torqued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 so the problem is usually that its too loose. if you use the right gun and tighten it until the nut stops turning... I rest my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white4d96 Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Honestly it depends on the impact. That was with a cheap Craftsman impact. My friend has a Snap-on one that he's accidentally sheared off bolts with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidHowell3633 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 As I said, I used a torque wrench and set it for 184 lbs. Although, to my 67 year old arm, it did not feel like 184 lbs. However, the thing was longer than my 150# wrench by 6 inches or so. 55Trucker has me paranoid now. When I removed my very old and worn out hub assemblies, they slid willingly off the shaft and into my hands. I just took my thumbs and pushed on the shaft and they came right out. When I removed new Timken #1, I had no such luck nor did I have a puller. Instead, I sprayed some PB Blaster and tapped on the back side of the wheel mounting flange to get it out. I say tapped- I couldn't drive a nail in plywood with that force, but I could if it were drywall. Maybe I separated some rollers in there.... Thoughts? (The marbles seem quiet the last couple of days for some reason). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 I would conclude that non-mechanics would like to think they are experts. book experts is what they really are. This might be considered trolling on my part... but I really want to hit you sometimes. Believe me when I say that "book experts" are learning from extensive theory that has been developed over many years of various types of laboratory and real-world testing on things like bearing life, preload and allowable play in bearings, fastener strength i.e. tightening limits before yielding (that means stretching), so that the designated spec isn't even good anymore because now the threads are permanently deformed after over-tightening and in fact will require MORE torque the next time it's tightened in order to maintain the same preload and not back-off (i.e. bolt/nut separation) while having become weaker in the process, not to mention crushing bearings that are meant to handle extreme radial loads but NOT extreme axial compressive loads... But you're right. An engineer, for instance, would have no idea what he's talking about. There are a lot of areas where you'll get by just fine going by what snap-on guy bob and mechanic willy and all of your high school friends have told you. Bearing life is not one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 sorry. the comment wasn't directed at you. I did build my first motor in highschool back in 93. but I was the only kid in class that did that. most of the other kids helped though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWeb80 Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) well shit. When I rebuilt my trans and put it back in, I just used my dads impact wrench 3/8 drive w/ 120 psi and just cranked on it till they were pretty snug. Been ~8k miles and no problem on 133k mile stock hubs..... Edited October 21, 2011 by AWeb80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 sorry. the comment wasn't directed at you. I did build my first motor in highschool back in 93. but I was the only kid in class that did that. most of the other kids helped though. Sorry. I was a bit grumpy earlier. That, and as I've progressed through getting my degree, and actually learned the truth behind a lot of things that guys on the internet/in shops/etc. swear is right or wrong, I just cringe and get frustrated when they try so hard to sell it as factual or correct, when in fact they don't really know what they're talking about. But that's not your fault. Seemingly knowledgeable people have informed you of these things, and when your experiences thus-far seem to be in-line with what they're telling you, it's easy to come to believe it. I guess that's how learning works though. Hell, theories in a lot of areas of science change all the time, because everything you've observed and have been told by everyone else seem to be in agreement with what's happening, then new data or observations happen that make you rethink your original assumptions. Even for a lot of engineering theory, not that it necessarily changes, but for a good number of things, there are several different theories on the best way to try to quantify things that happen, or what will cause what, etc. As an example that I'm really pulling out of my ass because I don't remember the specifics that well (that's what text/reference books are for), when trying to develop failure criteria for some design, say a steering knuckle or a trailing arm or something, there are several different theories that different people have come up with that try to take into account extreme loading, cyclic loading/unloading, corrosion effect, crack development and propagation, etc. that will try to predict somehow what it will take for that component to fail, and to design something with at least a 3x factor of safety to prevent that from happening. But there's a couple of different ways of calculating such a thing, and nobody can say this theory is wrong, just that this one appears to be better than another. Ramble ramble. Sorry. done rambling, going to bed. Just know that there are legitimate reasons behind things like torque specs. They may not always be right, and I believe the torque spec for the axle nuts was actually revised to something much lower than 184 ft-lbs as time went on (my 1990 and 1992 services manuals do both say 184, though). But there is definitely such thing as too tight and not tight enough. In a lot of cases, it won't matter. Something rattles loose and you retighten it, or you snap a bolt head off, curse and then have to extract it and replace it somehow. With wheel hubs, too loose and the bearing will wobble and destroy itself and the wheel could separate. Too tight and you'll destroy and expensive sealed-unit hub, or possibly even damage/stretch threads enough so as to severely degrade the integrity of the fastener, and then who knows, the nut could back off or split or something crazy. Ya, of course those are not highly likely. But they can happen. Yes, I am that asshole who torques all of my lugs correctly at least 90% of the time. My stepdad was a mechanic a long time ago, and it drives him nuts. But I do it because I understand the reason for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 About a thousand years ago, I was using the impact wrench as a torque wrench like everyone else. Got my ass torn off by my boss--the whole shop (perhaps 40 people) heard him yelling at me at the top of his lungs. Quite brutal. Decided to use a torque wrench rather than face that music again. Also bought "the best" book on the subject of fasteners, and studied-up. If you work on vehicles--even as a hobby--this book is VERY VERY RECOMMENDED. http://www.amazon.com/Fasteners-Plumbing-Handbook-Motorbooks-Workshop/dp/0879384069/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319301840&sr=8-1 The older editions have the same information, but may have a different cover photo. There is a "revised edition" that has not been released yet. There are newer books on the same subject--I own several of them. They are good, but not as good. http://www.amazon.com/High-Perf-Fasteners-Plumbing-HP1523/dp/1557885230/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1319301968&sr=1-4 http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Rod-Hardware-Timothy-Remus/dp/1929133014/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1319302860&sr=1-1 http://www.amazon.com/High-Performance-Hardware-Technology-Enthusiasts/dp/1557883041/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1319302901&sr=1-1 The three books above are worth having...but the first one--by Carrol Smith--is the "one" to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 bought that shit ! read the introduction a little, now I want it. always could use metallurgy textbooks to read up on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 You're going to love his book "Engineer to Win". http://www.amazon.com/Engineer-Motorbooks-Workshop-Carroll-Smith/dp/0879381868/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319474217&sr=8-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidHowell3633 Posted July 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Well, here I go again. After 13 months and 16,000 miles, I have to replace the Timken bearing on the right side this time. I have previously replaced the one on the left after a shorter time. I have a new replacement (Timken 513044) and a new spindle nut $8. I'll rent the torque wrench from O'Really and repeat using 184 ft lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 I'll rent the torque wrench from O'Really and repeat using 184 ft lbs. You trust a rental torque wrench? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 I would, the stores have them calibrated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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