red92s Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Tried searching for a similar situation to this but didn't come up with anything. Anyway my car decided not to start one day. Starter works well, Fuel is getting to injectors. Prior to this I had a code 42, so I replaced the ignition module which cleared up that problem. However now the car does not start at all and has no spark. Crank position sensor didn't help. I'm thinking the ECM has either had it or maybe there is a resistance problem in the injectors. No blown fuses or bad connectors anywhere and no codes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 New or used ICM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microsvc Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Tried searching for a similar situation to this but didn't come up with anything. Anyway my car decided not to start one day. Starter works well, Fuel is getting to injectors. Prior to this I had a code 42, so I replaced the ignition module which cleared up that problem. However now the car does not start at all and has no spark. Crank position sensor didn't help. I'm thinking the ECM has either had it or maybe there is a resistance problem in the injectors. No blown fuses or bad connectors anywhere and no codes. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Does it at least crank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red92s Posted September 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 It does crank Ignition control module is brand new. I am attempting to replace the ECM today with one that is know to work to see if that might be the cause Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red92s Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Well I replaced the ECM and that took care of it. I should have picked that one first.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red92s Posted November 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Car has now died again..... I am getting really annoyed at this thing and if it didn't have a 5 speed I would give up on it... Anyway if you don't get a code 12 when you check the data port under the dash is it safe to assume that the ECM isn't working properly? I had replaced the ECM at one point and everything was going great and the car just died one day and never started again. everything else in the ignition system is brand new and is still good as far as I can tell. any thoughts? Could my new ECM have died in the space of a month, is there some problem that fires these things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 the crank sensor provides the signal for timing and if its not working right the same thing will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 If you aren't getting code 12 that's not good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontiac6ksteawd Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 Sounds like your under hood fuses blew, in dash fuses blew, or the ECM died again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Ball Posted November 29, 2009 Report Share Posted November 29, 2009 I had a problem with mine. I thought it was the starter. I replaced my started in Part Source's Parking lot one day. Swapped it and nothing. Was ready to give up and took another look and started removing my air box. Found a ground wire melted to exhaust manifold. Cut the wire, butt connector and it worked like a charm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 Since you have a no-start condition and no code 12, you might have another ECM failure on your hands. Here's a troubleshooting chart for a "no code 12" to help you determine what exactly is bad. It's from a 1990 factory manual, but should be the same as your 92. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f14/platjblser/IMG_4200.jpg http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f14/platjblser/IMG_4202.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red92s Posted December 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Replaced ECM with remaned one (again) no fix. Looks like the problem is in the injectors. But Does anyone know what changes there were between 1990 and 1992 in the way the ECM and Fuel injectors interface. I have a 1990 manual but none of the wires colors in the fuel injector driver circuit match up. Since all ignition components are new this has to be it. Also I get fuel into the rails but none of the injectors will light up a Blue Point test light like they are supposed to. Thank you very much for the help so far. This one just won't go away.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy K Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 ohm check the injectors. if one is real low it could prevent the PCM from running..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 if it ran fine while running, its not the injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Could be a intermittent short in one of the injectors. Seeing as its a mpfi batch fire car, when one injector shorts, they are all effectively shorted out together. I would try 6 known good injectors and inspect the injector wiring harness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red92s Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I have a 1990 shop manual and the car is a '92 they definitely changed some wiring in the interim. I was wondering if anyone out there has a 92 shop manual and could find this diagram. (under driveibility and emissions) so I could see what pins go to where, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 uploading the flowcharts out of a 93 Lumina service manual.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 Heres the one page for now, will post more later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 I'm missing pg A-28 it looks like but can upload it if you need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red92s Posted December 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Thank you very much GOT2B GM, those are indeed pretty different between those years, hard to believe they would do that with how common the 3.1 was across the whole GM range.... This should work pretty well, now when I at least test wires the readings I get should make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 No problem, let me know if you need anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red92s Posted December 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 So after a little more digging I have found that a lack of continuity in the circuit for the fuel injectors. So I think I have a shorted Injector. The car ran terribly right before it died so I think this is a good bet. I have yet to find any bad wires or connections yet. I am confused as how to go about testing the resistance across injectors. Is all one has to do is use an ohm meter across the injector terminals without the injector being plugged into anything else? I would imagine injectors from 1992 would eventually die at one point. Thanks in adavance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Is all one has to do is use an ohm meter across the injector terminals without the injector being plugged into anything else? you got it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red92s Posted December 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Would anyone knowif its possible for all six injectors to be shorted out? All of mine read zero Ohms. Either that or I have to see if my multimeter is working right.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 I have a hard time believing that... Did you test the injector or the wires to the injector? You need to test the injector itself... I believe you should be seeing numbers like 12.7 or so but that number might be for something else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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