kadoi Posted September 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2003 okay scratch the last post. The epoxy didnt hold at all and now im bout ready to set the car on fire :x :x :x :x :x :x :x Any other ideas welcome but as it looks now im super screwed and super pissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idbeast Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Cory, try it again, but first take some brake clean and spray in the hole then clean it out with with qtips, (will remove any oil) then do as you did before except let it setup for 24 hours before you try to pull it out. and stay away from the fire during that time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kadoi Posted September 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 okay lol.....i did use carb and choke cleaner at first with paper towl....cleaned it out three or four times.....but break cleaner will work better? I will try it though and maybe with more time and some luck it will work...i have a dremel and one of those flexible shafts and was thinking about using that and a little drill bit(since a dremel will drill through any thing) and then putting a screw in that and hoping that will work..but want to stay away from that if possible. Thanks for your help..will let you know if it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 okay lol.....i did use carb and choke cleaner at first with paper towl....cleaned it out three or four times.....but break cleaner will work better? I will try it though and maybe with more time and some luck it will work...i have a dremel and one of those flexible shafts and was thinking about using that and a little drill bit(since a dremel will drill through any thing) and then putting a screw in that and hoping that will work..but want to stay away from that if possible. Thanks for your help..will let you know if it works. spray some contact cleaner in the hole, get the end of the sensor clean this way, then apply some 2 step epoxy Yep, sorry but I should of been more specific, carb/choke cleaner can still leave a residue, where contact cleaner, if enough used, will not, and contact cleaner will evaporate completely where carb/choke cleaner might not, and mix into the oil too much (by leaking past the sensor into the oil pan). You DID have the right intensions by cleaning but contact cleaner is a better bet when things are criticle like this, and make sure to contact clean the end of the bolt or whatever you use. Considering the sensor is broken/gives a good bighting surface for epoxy, then make sure the end of the bolt is rough/scuffed as well (not sure what the glue let go from?). Better luck now, and I like the small hole drilled/small screw only as a last attmempt too, hoping the sensor body does not turn when you turn in the screw. Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kadoi Posted September 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 yeah the epoxy let go from the sensor....i tried three times and every time it let go from the sensor....the epoxy always had oil on the end of it. I will run out and get some contact cleaner tonight and let it sit all night and during school...hopefully it will work. Thanks for your input. :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Excellent, especially the part where you checked the possibility of oil getting in the way, that is good detailed observation, those will get you results if there is any chance at all of this trick working! There also might be some area above/around the sensor that when you spray, dumps more oil into your hole, might want to clean the entire area too since its not a real open working area to be able to just squirt into some small hole! Good luck and will be waiting for a “yahoo†Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idbeast Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 I use the brake clean because it will remove oil and grease from brake shoes/pads and dries real quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kadoi Posted September 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 thanks again for your help....i would have already given up if it wasnt for you guys and just wanted to let you know i appreciate your help. Man that sounded gay. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotcutnup Posted September 28, 2003 Report Share Posted September 28, 2003 Jesus, how many techs own GM products?? I cant be the only one, well anyway, just KNOCK it IN! turn the crank until it reaches a point it will go in, at tht point you have 2 options after installing new one. Take off oil pan and remove it, or just leave it there until the day you decide to change your gasket. I myself have done this a few times and know a few facts: it is too large to be picked up in oil screen(remember that) it is too heavy to be picked up it is plastic, therefore, not likely to degrade oh yeah I never tried but maybe you can use one of the new nonferrous wrapped magnets to go into oil plug and grab it by the tipo to pull it out, but like I said, i never had a problem leaving them in, but mostly it hapens on the 2.2 Liter 4 cylinders to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kadoi Posted September 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 well my dad came over and he called one of his buds who is a mechanic for 12 years or so...and he said that you cant knock it in becuase it sits almost right on top of the cam gear...so we didnt bother to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotcutnup Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 well, glad to see someone who has just under the time in career as I have to help ya, but there is one other way, but requires tools u may not have, as I do. get an angle drill , or a small drill driver and use a 8mm bit to drill a hole into the sensor. Ya have to be careful not to go further than about 1/2 inch. then u can take an ez out and install it into the sensor and remove it by counterclockwise turning the sensor, but if you do not have these tools, your dads friend should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 Maybe this will clear up things. The sensor is obvious. The center ring of the crank is on the right. You can see one of the gaps in it that the sensor detects. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kadoi Posted September 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 THANK YOU!!! so i can definately knock it through...GREAT lots of time saved. thanks alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotcutnup Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 thanks Chris A, I guess Im still a N00b, regardless of the 14yrs as an auto tech, hmmmm maybe I ahould try the pic thing lol. turnt the crank to a certain position was not clear enough.(as stated above) But for real, thanks. Rod. PS as for you Kadoi, patience and attention to detail works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kadoi Posted September 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 im sorry if i offended you or something but i didnt mean to..it was just that someone had told me to do that before i read your post ...it wasnt that i wasnt going to try your tip...it was just that i didnt feel like bothering with it at the time i read the post. Sorry if i came across wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotcutnup Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 GRRRRRR TOOO LATE BUDDY!!! lmao, nawww its all good, im not offended, and I hope ya get it out, they are a pain at times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 Now, keeping with the same aura of respect ( 8) ), need to mention my thoughts on this too, which is open to discussions as well ! Granted you can (room is tight) hammer in the sensor, and “IF†you can see to get the crank to a position where there is an open notch (not that much of an opening for junk to fall clear through anyways), I would not like to hear that much plastic garbage floating around in my oil. Why I say this is the oil pump pick up screen will have some of its openings plugged with all this plastic debris, and this could impede full oil flow, and with this engine and its lifters known to get iffy when not lubed fully, and a turbo oil feed being shared as well with the engine oil supply, restricting oil flow might not be something as easy to cheat as with a NA 3.1 or a 2.2. And since we have a High volume oil pump, it might not take too kindly to sucking/mabye some cavitating from a reduced screened pick up area. From those thoughts that is why hammer-time was recommended as a last chance effort, but first was to get some way of pulling the sensor out, and the glue on a clean surface was one idea, or as I just heard from another fellow Tech here on the phone Saturday (I have a few certifications too) to heat up a screw red hot and poke it into the plastic sensor, or heat the plastic sensor soft and insert a screw with some turning (and see Rod made this suggestions too!). I want to see this work for this guy as I know a few in the past that have had this same problem and others will in the future, I know others want a resolve so, just adding my .02 worth to that effect. Thanks for listening. Can't WAIT to hear something works!!! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kadoi Posted September 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 thanks jeff ill try that...what i was thinking was that i could knock it through and drive it to my buddies and take the oil pan off since my car is at my apartment. But thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 Hope its going to help, but I need to back things up, I see here you are stating dropping the oil pan before exhausting any attempts at epoxy or hot drywall screws etc. Dropping the oil pan is a lot of work, and I hate to see you come back here much more frustrated about this job then attempting the first easier ones in getting this sensor body out . Dropping the oil pan means a lot of things :shock: , unhook the battery, move the starter off to the side, remove the turbo oil drain line, hammer the passenger side ball joint off, move lose the A-Arm from the ball joint, pull out the half shaft, unbolt the motor mount there, raise the engine, drop the sub-frame......getting the picture yet ? So, give the first choices your best effort before you give up and go dropping the pan route, and before someone says they have dropped the pan and its no big thing , not everyone has the time or likes to take on such a project 8) , specially if it can be avoided, soooo Good Luck just let us know before we get to page 4 on this topic . Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 AhHH, what an engine holding fixture and a Lift will do for a difficult job. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kadoi Posted October 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 getting a screw red hot sounds like a pretty good idea. The was other reasons also why i was going to take of the oil pan...and my dad and his friend was going to help me because when i turn the crank wheel i have a like a 1/4" of play and it makes a slapping noise. Is this normal. Well im going to try the hot screw thing regardless. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Wooow, small detail there :shock: !!! I have heard of the flywheel to torque converter bolts getting lose, there are 3 bolts that you can see as you use a big flat blade screwdriver to turn the flywheel, DO THIS, tighten them up!!!!! If they were loose then good, fix it now, it they are already tight (not TOO sure your description of this play!!) it can be the flywheel to crank bolts, which I have heard of loosening from description of cracked flywheels from loose bolts there!! If it ends up being the flywheel to crank then you will need to separate the engine from tranny to get in there, and use Locktight on the threads to secure the bolts, but I will wait to hear what you find before I detail more! Keep us posted and don’t let anything not right exists in this (or any) car as it can be much more costly later :read: !! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Yup..it could be that...but it could also be the timing chain slack. Or the fact that maybe the timing chain tentioner is worn out. I had thought one of my pistons pins was broken when I was swaping oil pans and decited to turn the crank by hand...there was like the 1/4 in play and I was worried. But everything was fine. When I had pulled the engine out last december...I saw that indeed there was alot of chain slack. Hope that helps....BUt also check what Jeff said....I worked on a mitsubitchei...lol...that had the flywheel to torqueconverter bolts loose...which aloso coused the flex plate holse to grow... :shock: Use thread locker (red). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 YupOr the fact that maybe the timing chain tentioner is worn out. ). No tensioner in this motor. There is the guide in the V of the chain, but no active tensioner. There has to be a lot of slack for the chain to make noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Very good points! If someone wanted to check the play in the timing chain, just pull off the oil fill cap, stick your finger in the hole (you know you want to do this) and hold your finger against the pushrod/rocker in there, while another person rotates the engine via the crank pulley nut. Turn the engine in one direction then the other, noting how long it takes for the pushrod to move as you go from one direction to the other, indicating how much excessive timing chain movement/play there is. Excessive timing chain wear can be common for some engines, not so common for the 3.1L but no matter, a simple check that would help rule out the chain as the problem. Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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