RobertISaar Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 ok, a little background: a long time ago, occasionally wifey's GP(90 3.1 auto) wouldn't start, the starter would spin but the solenoid would either engage for about 1/4 second or not at all. sometimes it took maybe ten tries, but it eventually caught long enough to get it to fire. lately, its been getting worse, to the point of me rescuing her from work twice, so i ordered a new starter, got here today. HOW THE FUCK DO YOU GET THE OLD ONE OUT? there's no damn room under there. and the a/c to starter brace, i'm about to round off the nut holding it to the starter because i can't get the right combination of extension/socket/ratchet to actually get any movement out of it... so i thought i'd remove some electrical stuff while i'm calming down.... mistake: the small wire: need an 8mm wrench to loosen the top nut, and another to keep the bottom one from rotating the whole post out of it, but there's no room for two wrenches... i've managed to take the pointless-ass plastic shield off and thats it. started to rain, so now i'm here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 should just be two 15mm bolts. Get a socket and ratchet, and go to town. Although Ive always found it very easy to take the starter out with no oil filter in the way... but then it kinda forces you to do an oil change... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 should just be two 15mm bolts. Get a socket and ratchet, and go to town. Although Ive always found it very easy to take the starter out with no oil filter in the way... but then it kinda forces you to do an oil change... 13mm(i think), and i haven't looked for the other one yet, but its pointless if i can't get this one out. and the oil pressure sensor is a obstacle for taking off the electrical... EDIT: and the reason i can't get a combination of socket/ratchet/extension to get the bolt off is the crossmember/frame and some type of line is just barely in the way.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 You shouldnt need to take that off. Once you get both bolts out, it moves fairly freely. But if you found one bolt, look straight across the starter and youll find the other one.. both bolts are by the tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 You shouldnt need to take that off. Once you get both bolts out, it moves fairly freely. But if you found one bolt, look straight across the starter and youll find the other one.. both bolts are by the tranny. i know where they are, i've done the monte, and they are fairly similar. and i took it off since it looked like it might be an issue, better safe than sorry, it was covered in oil anyway. and i decided to take the dogbones off and it looks like i can get enough angle out of it if i ratchet-strap it towards the rear of the car.... now i have to actually find the ratchet-strap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 OK, got it done. here's a word of advice, you need two people. the person on top can undo the electrical after you get the bolts off. you have to manuever it down and try to squeeze it through the A/C lines, which are a bitch. and the 13mm bolt that holds on the a/c to starter brace, which after you get that off, then you can deal with the 15mm bolt. well putting it back on, i just bent up the bracket out of the way and didn't put it on. i don't seem to have any bracing issues, but then again the a/c doesn't work either. now it starts nice and easy. if i have to redo it again, i'm getting a 3400 or 3400/3500 hybrid and dropping it in, fuck the 3.1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w-bodys_are_the_best Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I had trouble getting mine off my 91 3.4, had to remove the AC lines, ac was empty anyways. I may still get a newer smaller starter when I put it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I never had any trouble replacing the starter on my car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Yeah, everytime I've done a starter, it's been a 30 minute job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Yeah, everytime I've done a starter, it's been a 30 minute job. starter on the monte ~30 minutes.... GP: ~2 hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhrarhG Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I agree. The starter on my 88 is a bitch. The A/C lines are in the way. If you have an TGP/DOHC oil cooler it just gets worse. It took me over a 1/2 hour just to get mine in into position, not talking about installing, just from outside, past the A/C lines, cradle and oil cooler, and rotated around to where it needed to be. Next time, 3400 starter for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 When I R&R'd the starter on my 90 TGP, I disconnected the starter to AC compressor brace, then disconnected the AC lines from the compressor. Removed the solenoid from the old big starter, then wiggled the starter out. Replaced it with a nice high torque mini starter. Much easier to manouver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 The difference is huge in the starters! IIRC-These are the starters for the 3.4 going from 91-97. The later pushrod's are even smaller. When I did the starter in the Lumina, we had to remove the oil filter and cooler lines. Kinda sucked but no biggie. The AC lines can be a pain at times to maneuver around but they aren't that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I can't remember what I had to do to change the starter in the '88, but I had to do it twice, 2nd time under warranty (crappy replacement starter, grrr). It's been 8-9yrs, but I do remember it was a bitch to do and I cussed a lot. Mainly, I remember the starter being very heavy. It might not seem bad just to hold it, but holding it overhead while laying on the ground trying to maneuver it out from the mess of wiring and brackets (and maneuvering the new one in) can get painful pretty quick. If the starter ever goes out on my '89, I'm gonna try to get the tiniest, lightest starter I can get that will fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19Cutlass94 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I believe the newer 3400 style that are like half the size will fit right into place. I know they are all interchangeable on the 3x00 but I duno about the 3.1/2.8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I have heard of it being a bitch for some people and luckily didn't have that experience myself at all. all I did was simply unbolt it and flip it up at a certain angle and drop it out. I did have to remove a coolant line and stick a sharpie in the hose so it wouldn't all drain out. then bolt up the new smaller one I got from the junkyard for $15 with no shims. I have done it in two different tgp's and same thing each time. cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 I've never seen these cars need shims. I believe the newer 3400 style that are like half the size will fit right into place. I know they are all interchangeable on the 3x00 but I duno about the 3.1/2.8. At the parts store we went through like 5 part numbers for different models with the 3x00 and the smallest I found was for a Malibu....it's teeny tiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 I've never seen these cars need shims. the original one on the GP had 2, one thicker than the other, so i put them on the new one as well. seems to work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 I've never seen these cars need shims. I had to shim my 94 GP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Interesting....I wonder why some cars need it and others don't? Do you just buy universal ones at the part store if you need them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertISaar Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Interesting....I wonder why some cars need it and others don't? block and starter machining tolerances.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 At the parts store we went through like 5 part numbers for different models with the 3x00 and the smallest I found was for a Malibu....it's teeny tiny. What year Malibus got the tiny starters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 At the parts store we went through like 5 part numbers for different models with the 3x00 and the smallest I found was for a Malibu....it's teeny tiny. What year Malibus got the tiny starters? Well any 3x00 will have the smaller one. But IIRC-the smallest I could find was for an '01. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 When I got mine I just said I needed one for a 03' 3400 Impala. It is tiny. My huge OE starter had a shim. I haven't needed one with the small starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 When I got mine I just said I needed one for a 03' 3400 Impala. It is tiny. From the sound of it they gave you one for a Honda by mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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